Reliability of CPI SM 250

Hi All!
I want to buy a new CPI SM 250 and want to find out how it’s reliable. I ask the owners of this motorcycle to post in this thread the number of kilometers ridden and the troubles they had overtaken.

[color=#FF0000]2009-04-29 14:22 GMT+2 update[/color]:
For better readability I will be arranging all the feedbacks from owners in table like this:
[ul]Owner || Odometer || Status || Problems || Source[/ul]

[ol]
[li]sandman || about 7000km || back in the factory || long warming up, problem in front hub || post in this thread[/li]
[li] Chris || 5000km || riding || problems took place but now all good || page on his site and my own correspondence with him[/li]
[li] Stefan Mertes || 3200km || riding || no major problems || page on his blog[/li][/ol]

That sounds like you’re attempting a “scientific” survey, which is rather ambitious.

Since you havn’t asked, I assume you don’t have a control? In other words, something to compare with? (All other new motorcycles might be simplest.)

Without a control, EVEN IF you got a lot of response/data (good luck), it’ll be difficult to interpret.

Hard to interpret, indeed. But still nice to know what problems people had with it if you’re thinking about buying one, methinks. I think that’s all the info the OP is after as he specified. I’d like to know, too, if I thought about buying one.

marboulette

I am also looking to buy one before the carburetor engines are banned next year in Taiwan. It is hard to find the infos in the Mega thread. Maybe it would be easier if posted here.

The FAMOUS (or MEGA) locked thread

Mine’s back in the factory. Takes too long to warm up. Plus, the front hub appears to be fucked – the front wheel can move laterally about 2mm so the handling is completely screwed up. Bike’s done about 7000km and used only for commuting.
I’ll post an update when it comes back from the factory. Its been fine up until then.

[quote=“sandman”]the front hub appears to be fucked – the front wheel can move laterally about 2mm so the handling is completely screwed up. Bike’s done about 7000km and used only for commuting.
I’ll post an update when it comes back from the factory. Its been fine up until then.[/quote]7000km is not much for this to happen. As in NOT MUCH at all. Could be an assembly issue or faulty parts. Let’s hope it’s not the standard life expectancy of the wheel bearings because that would be a sad indication of ill craftsmanship.

marboulette

[quote=“marboulette”][quote=“sandman”]the front hub appears to be fucked – the front wheel can move laterally about 2mm so the handling is completely screwed up. Bike’s done about 7000km and used only for commuting.
I’ll post an update when it comes back from the factory. Its been fine up until then.[/quote]7000km is not much for this to happen. As in NOT MUCH at all. Could be an assembly issue or faulty parts. Let’s hope it’s not the standard life expectancy of the wheel bearings because that would be a sad indication of ill craftsmanship.

marboulette[/quote]
Tell me about it. Not happy at all. Has stuff that looks like betelnut spit leaking from the hub assembly. Presumably it’s something else.

That’s usually a situation where the wheel bearing has worn out and there has been water in the bearing. The water could have got in there first if the bearing seal was damaged or worn and then caused the damage to the bearings and the grease to run out, or the bearing if faulty could have failed first causing the seal to wear which would then let the water in. Anyway that betel nut grime is usually a combination of rust and bearing grease.

I have had doubts about the quality of these bikes, but I think we are going to see many more faults to come. They seem built down to their price.

Only 7,000km of commuting? You should be able to land 7,000 backflips and not have a problem with the wheel bearings. 20 to 30,000km at least. From the photos I’ve seen of the CPI front hub, it looks like they have placed the bearings as far apart as possible and they are of a decent size for the application, at least as big as what the Japanese are specifying. I don’t see a problem with the design. Machining a decent hub is pretty simple and Taiwanese have been successfully producing these things for many years for bicycles and motorcycles, so I don’t anticipate problems there.
It is possible the bearings were fitted in the hub without lubrication. Bearings are usually supplied with either a standard lithium grease or no lube at all. It’s very common for industrial users to buy them dry when planning to use a special lubricant during assembly as it saves having to wash the original grease out. It can be pretty easy for one to slip by un-lubed.
Did you see any lubricate running away from the axle seals before the play became evident? It would normally spread away from the axle while the wheel is spinning and leave dirty radial tracks. If the bearing was installed with lube then it would’ve had to have leaked and escaped before the wear would occur, and the rust-colored gunk would dribble out. That’s called tribological corrosion by the way, the result of ferrous parts running together with basically zero lubrication.

IIWY Sandman I would find out the dimensions of those bearings and go buy some good quality Japanese or German replacements from a local bearing supplier, then have either the factory or your dealer install them for you. I recommend NSK, SKF, Toyo and NTN in that order. For probably <NT$100 you can rid yourself of any question over the quality of the OEM bearings. If you can get the bad parts back I’d be interested to know what brand / spec they are.

That’s usually a situation where the wheel bearing has worn out and there has been water in the bearing. The water could have got in there first if the bearing seal was damaged or worn and then caused the damage to the bearings and the grease to run out, or the bearing if faulty could have failed first causing the seal to wear which would then let the water in. Anyway that betel nut grime is usually a combination of rust and bearing grease.

I have had doubts about the quality of these bikes, but I think we are going to see many more faults to come. They seem built down to their price.[/quote]

I’m not arguing, honest. I don’t know enough to do that, but I thought bearings (and probably seals) were off-the-shelf items sourced from specialist bearing manufacturers. Do you suspect they’ve sourced shit bearings (which would save very little) or , perhaps more likely, have installed them badly (with the wrong preload, or whatever) which would save nothing, except perhaps some QC wages?

My earlier point applies here too. This is, of course, of interest to a prosective purchaser, but its one case, and it doesn’t, of itself, justify a blanket criticism of the machine unless there comparative statistics available, or at least a comparative collection of/appeal for anecdotal evidence.

It’s very expensive to spec an exotic bearing so standards are always preferred. The difference in price between a good German or Japanese bearing and a cheap one from China can be a factor of ten. I still have nightmares about the time an ex-employer decided to cut costs and substitute our specified bearings for some from China. Material composition, hardening and dimensional tolerances were all over the place and a huge number of units failed as soon as they went into service. Fiasco.
Still, we are just speculating about the cause with Sandy’s failed bearings until he posts photos. :wink:

Actually, not. The bearings in a hub don’t have any preload applied to them. Since they were installed at the factory not at Ah Huang’s shop, I expect they were pressed in using proper jigs and mandrels. Pretty hard to mis-install that way.

Agreed. There isn’t a perfect vehicle out there and all the manufacturers have the occasional screw-up. Without comparison to other brands and models the anecdotes don’t reveal much truth. Given the relatively small number of these bikes out there in use, it’s notoriously hard to draw meaningful conclusions from anecdotal evidence. Remember the unhappy owners are much more likely to run around slagging the product than the happy ones are to run around praising it from the rooftops.

Also agreed, but is also why from the small number of owners that have so far commented on this particular machine anecdotal or not, it does seem that they have a certain consistency when it comes to failing. I’m just saying if it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck…then I don’t need statistics to tell me the rest.

I pass a CPI just outside all the time and I just had a look at the front hub. It doesn’t seem as if there is much protection for the bearing seals and they are immediately exposed to oncoming dust and water. They don’t even seem to have a flange or faring over them.

[quote=“sulavaca”]
I pass a CPI just outside all the time and I just had a look at the front hub. It doesn’t seem as if there is much protection for the bearing seals and they are immediately exposed to oncoming dust and water. They don’t even seem to have a flange or faring over them.[/quote]
Maybe grab a photo next time? You’re saying the bearing’s own dust seal is all there is to keep the gunk out? That’s no good on street bike, let alone a trailie.

I don’t want this topic become a Mega-garbage goldmine, so I will be regularly update the first post with feedbacks from owners.

Suits me fine. Topic was pretty much done to death in the mega thread.

I’m an owner. My bike has done 7,000 km. It is back at the factory with serious problems with the front hub. It also is very reluctant to start from cold. There’s no garbage in this thread at all, just advice from experts on the subject which has been VERY helpful to me. If you want any more feedback from me you’ll keep a civil tongue in your head.

sandman, I am very grateful to you, that you was the first (and the only for now) that reply for my request but I can’t agree with you about the purity of this thread. The topic is called a “reliability of CPI SM 250”, not “the sense of statistic gathering” or “fixing faults of CPI SM 250” or so. I asked to post in this thread the owners of CPI SM 250 only. Just the odometer registration and problems that had came up for time of writing feedback.
Thank you for understanding.

OK, that was civil. How about when I get the bike back from the factory – do you want a report on the kind of service provided by them and the quality of the repair/replacement? That would be of interest under the term “reliability,” wouldn’t it? Up to you.

I sourced this pic online.

It certainly does seem without a closer inspection that the bearing’s seal is flush with the end of the hub which is not good. If indeed it is flush, then I’d be tempted to slice across a bicycle inner tube and stretch a short piece onto the hub so that half is overlapping the spindle which would shield the bearing slightly from direct contact with water and dirt.

Perhaps you wish to start another CPI thread under repairs?