Religious tolerance: a less inflamatory thread

Politics International Politics
1

For those interested in the exploring the limits of religious freedom and accomodation within larger society, there’s an interesting case that is about to go before Canada’s supreme court.

(Better yet, it doesn’t directly involve Islam, so the arguments already stated might be avoided.)

Thoughts?

[quote=“CBC”]
Top court to rule on Sikh kirpan case

[color=blue]Canada’s top court will rule Thursday on whether a Montreal Sikh boy can wear his ceremonial dagger to school, a case that could give some direction to governments on how far they must go to accommodate certain religious beliefs.[/color]

The case stems from a November 2001 incident at Ste-Catherine-Laboure school in LaSalle. Gurbaj Singh’s cloth-wrapped dagger came loose from around his waist and fell to the ground at the elementary school.
Gurbaj Singh

The school’s principal ordered the 12-year-old to remove the kirpan, but Gurbaj left school rather than remove the 10-centimetre long dagger, which he says is a key component of his faith. He eventually switched to another school.
[…]
Although banning the weapon was a hindrance to freedom of religion, the court ruled that community safety comes first.
[…]
Manjeet Singh, the Sikh chaplain at McGill and Concordia universities, who also assisted Gurbaj Singh’s legal team, said baptized Sikhs believed the kirpan is a symbol of courage, freedom and responsibility to stand up for their rights.

“[color=blue]It is one of the five articles of faith that every baptized Sikh is supposed to have on their person, all the time[/color],” said Manjeet Singh.

[color=blue]The Charter of Rights and Freedoms in Canada ensures that every citizen in Canada can practice their religion without any hindrance[/color], he said.
[…]
Craig Buchanan, the vice-president of English affairs with for the Quebec Federation of Parents Committee, said the issue is divisive.

“It’s a tricky situation. [color=blue]If you start to try to limit the religious freedoms, then what’s that going to do to other religious freedoms?[/color]” said Buchanan. “And if you seek to compromise safety in schools, how far is that going to go as far as safety in the schools?” [/quote]

2

I’ll bite

[quote]
Canada’s top court will rule Thursday on whether a Montreal Sikh boy can wear his ceremonial dagger to school, a case that could give some direction to governments on how far they must go to accommodate certain religious beliefs. [/quote]

No, stupid.

Why in the hell would any right minded (haha “right” minded) school allow some schmuck teenager wear a KNIFE to school is beyond me.

Fuck your religion pal, this is high school.

The Simpsons wrote:[quote]
God has no place in school, just as facts have no place in organized religion.[/quote]

Let the jihad begin.

Jihad my ass. :raspberry:

3

If the dagger has a blunt, round tip, I would say ok. Otherwise sorry, but no weapons in school. You can practice your religion at home. School is a place for learning. Lines must be drawn, even where religion is at issue.

4

i was going to say something, but jd said it better.

5

Obviously you’ve never been through Marine Corps boot camp. I’ll drive that blunt edged tip right through your pancreas, bub. Ever hear of brute force?

JFC! :unamused:

6

[quote=“Tempo Gain”][quote=“jdsmith”]
Why in the hell would any right minded (haha “right” minded) school allow some schmuck teenager wear a KNIFE to school is beyond me.

Fuck your religion pal, this is high school.

[/quote]

I was going to say something, but jd said it better.[/quote]

Hey, we are talking “Culture War” right? What is High School if not culture?

Meet it or never get laid.

7

blunt?
brute?
Sure, sure, but I could do that with my bic pen, too. :unamused:

8

[quote=“Dragonbones”]blunt?
brute?
Sure, sure, but I could do that with my bic pen, too. :unamused:[/quote]

Wise ass.

That’s what allows you to live. Infidel.

:wink:

9

Thanks for posting this. It will be interesting to see the outcome.

Speaking of Muslim-related issues in Canada, how’s that Sharia law thing going? Didn’t somebody just more or less put their foot down and say no more Sharia law in Canada? How are the Muslims handling it?

Sorry about being so misinformed about the whole thing as to pose such a poorly-worded question, but Canadian politics are not a hobby of mine. I think I caught the article in a UK newspaper, anyway.

10

My mention that "If the dagger has a blunt, round tip, I would say ok. " was an attempt at finding a middle ground acceptable to both sides. Perhaps there is no such animal, when it comes to dogma. And therein lies the problem. Dogma is incompatible with tolerance. Dogmatic religions are incompatible with reason and peaceful coexistence. Therefore dogmatic religions are the root of all evil. Hoo boy, I hope I’m not off-topic or anything. :smiley:

[color=cyan]Ok, I was just kidding, you religious folks! Please don’t kill me…[/color]

11

Google image search saves the day:

12

Sir, you are not only wrong, but severely wrong. Blunt objects have been harming people for eons. Why YOU would want blunt objects brought back into schools is beyond us, er, me.

No. Sir again you are mistaken. Hinduism, the least likely religion to cross your path does not do so beacuse of its flacidity; no, Hinduism is in fact an all encompassing “religion” and I use paranthases on purpose to let youknow that Hinduism IS a religion, yet they are so bloody smart, that they have incorporated ALL modern religions into itself. They seek nothing but to conquer the world and instill convenience stores upon all infidels.

No… dogmatic religions are fine. As long as one chooses the best one.

Go Hindu! Woof! WooF!

[color=cyan]Ok, I was just kidding, you religious folks! Please don’t kill me…[/color]

Honorable Sir, it is Far too late…

jdsikh

13

Wow. Swift justice. I had no idea that the verdict was going to come down so soon.

[quote=“CBC”]
Supreme Court overturns ban on Sikh dagger

A Montreal boy may now wear his Sikh ceremonial dagger in the classroom after Canada’s top court unanimously overturned a ban on the kirpan.

[color=blue]In its 8-0 judgment, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled on Thursday that a total ban infringed on Gurbaj Singh’s guarantees of religious freedom under the Charter of Rights.[/color]

The court threw out arguments from lawyers for the Quebec school board that originally implemented the ban, saying there is no suggestion the kirpan is a weapon of violence or that Gurbaj intended to use it as one.

[color=blue]The argument is “disrespectful to believers in the Sikh religion and does not take into account Canadian values based on multiculturalism,” wrote the judges.[/color]
[…]
The case has been winding its way through the legal system for four years.

[color=blue]In May 2002, the Quebec Superior Court ruled Gurbaj could wear his kirpan to school if it was wrapped in heavy cloth inside a wooden case, underneath his clothing.[/color]

Quebec’s government at the time, the Parti Qu

14

This came up on the google image search for kirpan. Can somebody translate it for me?

Seems like as good idea as any. :wink:

15

Holy shit! Can my nephews now wear their “ceremonial” 30-30s during hunting season?

All I can say is “Holy fukcing shit!”. Canananadia has gone to shit.

I have seen the enemy and they are lawyers.

jdshocked :astonished:

16

A friend of mine was working as the first-aid attendant/ tool check at one of BCITs workrooms when a Sikh pulled his kirpan (on a Muslim, of course).

My friend banned him as being in violation of BC Workers’ Comp rules; IIRC it was upheld.

How about a banana? or a pointed stick?

17

[quote=“jdsmith”]
Canananadia[/quote]

You can do better than that. Howabout Khanadahar?

18

[quote=“trebuchet”][quote=“jdsmith”]
Canananadia[/quote]

You can do better than that. Howabout Khanadahar?[/quote]

Islamist!

:raspberry:

Whatever, right?

The old can do nothing but VOTE.

:rainbow:

19

Hmm, I’d probably draw the “free speech” justification line at religious items that actually are functional as weapons – so the court got it wrong there. However, as a POLICY matter I don’t see anything so bad about it if the kid can show a legitimate religious purpose and a very low liklihood it would actually be used. I liken it to a kid at a Virginia school recently who did civil war reinactments who still had his civil war era rifle in his car when he went to school the next morning – it wasn’t like he was going to actually use it, but technically it was against the rules.

20

I’d agree. In this case, it’s a ceremonial dagger: 10 cm, wrapped in cloth, kept in a wooden box, and worn next to the skin. But some kirpans can be almost 30 cm long, and are worn close to hand, outside of the clothing. If it’s ceremonial, what point is there in making it functional?

Actually, I think that the court got it right in that a blanket ban would have been foolish and disrespectful. That said, parliament should be able to bring in some regulations after consultations: strike a balance between freedom of religion and safety concerns. Some Sikhs do wear a very small, strickly symbolic dagger.

And when it comes to safety, there’s also a worry that these knives could be turned against their owners. It’s less likely to be a problem, but this kid was only 12 years old at the time. How difficult would it be for a 15 or 16 year old to take it away from him?