Remember the U.S.S. Liberty

Politics International Politics
1

"Survivors of a U.S. spy ship attacked by Israeli fighters and torpedo boats 40 years ago are pressing the Pentagon for a full investigation into alleged Israeli war crimes for a strike that caused 205 casualties, including 34 killed. . . .

Their new action, a 35-page, heavily footnoted report demanding a full-scale, new investigation, quotes the laws of war in alleging that Israel didn’t honor them. . . .

The attack on the USS Liberty occurred in international waters during the Six-Day War in 1967 between Israel, Egypt and other Arab nations. The survivors claim the attack itself was a violation of the Geneva Conventions regulating conduct of war and that further crimes occurred when Israeli sailors fired at rescuers and firefighters on the ship’s bullet-riddled deck and into rubber life rafts thrown into the water to pick up survivors.

Gary Brummett, president of the USS Liberty Veterans Association, said the appeal to the Defense Department is nothing more than an appeal for justice for his shipmates. Brummett was a boiler tender aboard the Liberty.

“Politicians will not touch this issue,” Brummett said. “All the presidents we have will not touch this issue. It’s politically incorrect. All we are trying to do now is to follow the rule of law.”

Cover-up.

"A former navy lawyer who helped lead the military investigation of the 1967 Israeli attack on the USS Liberty that killed 34 American servicemen says former president Lyndon Johnson and his defence secretary, Robert McNamara, ordered that the inquiry conclude the incident was an accident.

In a signed affidavit released at a Capitol Hill news conference, retired captain Ward Boston said Johnson and McNamara told those heading the navy’s inquiry to “conclude that the attack was a case of ‘mistaken identity’ despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.”

Boston was senior legal counsel to the navy’s original 1967 review of the attack. He said in the sworn statement that he stayed silent for years because he’s a military man, and “when orders come, I follow them.”

2

There is a BBC Documentary on this, entitled: Dead in the Water-The Sinking of the USS Liberty Also a few others out there on the internet. There’s also a censored BBC documentary about Israel’s 200 nuclear weapons.

I think we can agree that this incident happened, that no US politician will touch it with a 10 foot pole for 4 decades, and that the official whitewash (on BOTH sides) is not the truth. I searched around on Google and really couldn’t find anything beyond the above. However, I have a theory.

I once heard an anecdote, which of course offends me and any right-thinking person, but which I must relate, and perhaps you will see the relevance. I heard once that some traditional Italian men will slap a woman on their first date, for little or no reason. Why? Well, most of the time, she will tell him to piss off, and that is the end of it. And he doesn’t waste any more time. However, if the woman does not do that, they are off and running on a relationship where there is no doubt who wears the pants.

In other words, my interpretation is as early as 1964, taking a page from the Italian playbook, Israel wanted to clarify, at the leadership level, that the USA is their bitch. Events since then bear out this analysis.

3

"The USS Liberty Veterans Association has established, prima facie, the commission of war crimes by the state of Israel against US military personnel and civilians. These Americans volunteered to serve their country. They followed all orders given to them. In the course of following those orders, they were suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the state of Israel and their country did absolutely nothing to protect them or seek justice on their behalf…

The failure of the United States government to undertake a complete investigation of the Israeli attack on USS Liberty has resulted in grievous harm to the surviving victims, as well as to the families of all crewmembers. Equally serious, this failure has resulted in an indelible stain upon the honor of the United States of America. It has sent a signal to America

4

38 years ago Spook? Even in the event that everything you says is true, which I think you will have a great deal of trouble proving, um, might this not be a bit of an obsession? Regardless, go ahead and investigate. I think that if it helps you achieve some kind of catharsis, then I am all for it. Let’s get to the bottom of this matter once and for all. Actually, I am in Israel right now. I intend to ask around about this. (in town for a meeting of the secret Zionist plots and neocon strategems to dominate the world conference, shall I pick you up an olive wood cross from Bethlehem? Some holy oil from the Chuch of the Holy Sepulchre? a piece of the wall?

5

"8. That due to the influence of Israel’s powerful supporters in the United States, the White House deliberately covered up the facts of this attack from the American people;

  1. That due to continuing pressure by the pro-Israel lobby in the United States, this attack remains the only serious naval incident that has never been thoroughly investigated by Congress; to this day, no surviving crewmember has been permitted to officially and publicly testify about the attack;

  2. That there has been an official cover-up without precedent in American naval history; the existence of such a cover-up is now supported by statements of Rear Admiral Merlin Staring, USN (Ret.), former Judge Advocate General of the Navy; and Captain Ward Boston, USN, (Ret.), the chief counsel to the Navy’s 1967 Court of Inquiry of Liberty attack;

  3. That the truth about Israel’s attack and subsequent White House cover-up continues to be officially concealed from the American people to the present day and is a national disgrace; . . .

WHEREUPON, we, the undersigned, in order to fulfill our duty to the brave crew of USS Liberty and to all Americans who are asked to serve in our Armed Forces, hereby call upon the Department of the Navy, the Congress of the United States and the American people to immediately take the following actions:

FIRST: That a new Court of Inquiry be convened by the Department of the Navy, operating with Congressional oversight, to take public testimony from surviving crewmembers; and to thoroughly investigate the circumstances of the attack on the USS Liberty, with full cooperation from the National Security Agency, the Central Intelligence Agency and the military intelligence services, and to determine Israel’s possible motive in launching said attack on a U.S. naval vessel; . . .

We, the undersigned, hereby affix our hands and seals, this 22nd day of October, 2003.

Admiral Thomas H. Moorer, USN, Ret.
Former Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff

General of Marines Raymond G. Davis, USMC, MOH

Former Commandant of the United States Marine Corps

Merlin Staring
Rear Admiral Merlin Staring, USN, Ret.,
Former Judge Advocate General of the Navy"

6

“Friendly fire”, eh? Bummer. But the US has made its fair share of mistakes in that department too…

Israel should of course investigate this and take a reciprocal level of action as is taken by the US against its troops who mistakenly fire on allied forces. That might be the fairest thing.

7

From the reading I’ve done on this topic, I’ve come away with a different opinion.

  • Is the “Liberty” a colossal CF? Yes
  • Did the Isreali’s play fast and loose with the rules of engagement? Yes
  • Is this a Jewish/Zionist conspiracy? No
  • Has it been ignored because of the special relationship between Isreal and the US? To some extent, yes.

So why are we picking this particular tragedy out of the series of tragedies that made up the 6 day war?

Are we blaming Isreal again becuase they won?

8

Elequa:

Spook has special concerns about the Jews, er the Israelis, but I suggest that you delve none too deeply into that lest you be accused of trying to stifle legitimate debate. Investigate. I note though that for all its control over the US administration through the evil neo-cons that the US govt seemed perfectly capable of cutting off defense tech agreements until Israel complied with its wishes about stopping the export of certain technologies to China. But then, I am not much into conspiracy theories or rumors of evil forces set on world domination unless they are German :smiling_imp:

9

Actually, I think that the fact that the Isreali’s sell a lot of US tech to semi-to-non freindly countries is a big issue. Certainly bigger the the Liberty.

Spook must be European. The level of anit-semitism is Europe is pretty shocking these days. Short memories…

10

Would you care to elaborate on that rather sweeping generalisation?

“Short memories”? Ha. I remember America doing bugger all to try and stop Jews being massacred in the 1930s. Remember that?

And in any case, why is criticising Israel for attacking a US ship anti-semitic? Is all criticism of Israeli actions therefore anti-semitic? If that is the case, then all criticism of the actions of Arab nations is anti-Muslim.

11

European? No. I’m a U.S. Navy veteran with some special forces experience. I first became aware of the Liberty incident while I was in the Navy, after which my attitude towards the value and nature of the U.S.-Israel alliance changed, particularly after I began looking deeper into the scope of the true relationship between the two countries.

I have never in my life, in public or private, uttered a negative word against Judaism or people of Jewish faith or culture. My belief is that we’re all just people and no one is inherently better or worse than anyone else because of patinas of culture, faith or heritage.

This charge of anti-semitism is no different than the logical fallacy of likening someone to Hitler as a substitute for a rational and fair argument based on an evaluation of the facts. You’ll notice here that no one has even mentioned the facts of the case before launching into personal attacks and innuendo. The crew members of the Liberty have likewise been subjected to the same fallacious smearing throughout the last thirty-eight years in which their country has ignored and reviled them and treated them as outcasts:

“As a result of the public relations campaign undertaken on behalf of Israel, the USS Liberty survivors have been vilified for their assertions that the attack was deliberate and for their ongoing quest for justice. They are characterized as “neo-Nazis”, “anti-Semites”, and “conspiracy theorists” for wanting nothing more than an honest, open investigation of the attack on their ship and themselves.”

12

Yes, that is a sweeping generalization, but I’ll stand by it. Europe not really a place where you can say “I’m Jewish” and feel comfortable.

My experience in France, Germany and Greece is that blatent anti-semitic remarks (even excluding the purely politicall toward Isreal) happen more often than I’d like to admit.

Correct -the US did little to save many of the Jews from who?- The Europeans. I guess that’s like making the moral equivalent of saying that the US kiled them since we didn’t stop the bad guys. I guess your saying the US should be more interventionist?

True US not too far in the recent past was also rife with anti-semitism - but that was more focussed on what country club you could get into or whether you got to work for a firm like Brown Brothers.

Typical doublespeak that you get from the EU

13

Navy? :astonished:
That explains a lot. :loco: :laughing:

USAF vet :bravo:

14

So let’s get back to the topic at hand.

Are you saying that it is the Jewish caucus that is causing the Liberty to be overlooked?

Or is it the fact that they are “allies”

15

Still waiting on the answer to that question Spook. If you do not want me or others to have the views we do about your views I suggest that you answer it for a change. I note that you frequently avoid being overly specific on this particular matter. You started the thread, so I think it is only fair that you clarify your views on this subject once and for all. Are you suggesting the matter is being covered up because of the alliance between Israel and the US or are you suggesting that the matter is being covered up because of the Jewish influence in the US?

16

[quote=“spook”]"8. That due to the influence of Israel’s powerful supporters in the United States, the White House deliberately covered up the facts of this attack from the American people;

  1. That due to continuing pressure by the pro-Israel lobby in the United States, this attack remains the only serious naval incident that has never been thoroughly investigated by Congress; to this day, no surviving crewmember has been permitted to officially and publicly testify about the attack;

  2. That there has been an official cover-up without precedent in American naval history; the existence of such a cover-up is now supported by statements of Rear Admiral Merlin Staring, USN (Ret.), former Judge Advocate General of the Navy; and Captain Ward Boston, USN, (Ret.), the chief counsel to the Navy’s 1967 Court of Inquiry of Liberty attack;

  3. That the truth about Israel’s attack and subsequent White House cover-up continues to be officially concealed from the American people to the present day and is a national disgrace; . . .

WHEREUPON, we, the undersigned, in order to fulfill our duty to the brave crew of USS Liberty and to all Americans who are asked to serve in our Armed Forces, hereby call upon the Department of the Navy, the Congress of the United States and the American people to immediately take the following actions:

FIRST: That a new Court of Inquiry be convened by the Department of the Navy, operating with Congressional oversight, to take public testimony from surviving crewmembers; and to thoroughly investigate the circumstances of the attack on the USS Liberty, with full cooperation from the National Security Agency, the Central Intelligence Agency and the military intelligence services, and to determine Israel’s possible motive in launching said attack on a U.S. naval vessel; . . .

We, the undersigned, hereby affix our hands and seals, this 22nd day of October, 2003.

Admiral Thomas H. Moorer, USN, Ret.
Former Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff

General of Marines Raymond G. Davis, USMC, MOH

Former Commandant of the United States Marine Corps

Merlin Staring
Rear Admiral Merlin Staring, USN, Ret.,
Former Judge Advocate General of the Navy"[/quote]

You don’t appear to be reading my posts. Your strategy of course is to avoid discussing the facts of the U.S.S. Liberty case at all costs – the subject of this thread – and steer the discussion into the fallacious dead-end that any and all criticism of Israel is self-evident anti-semitism.

17

Spook:

I say investigate. Go ahead. Investigate. Hasn’t there already been an investigation? Curious that you have such an interest in this event from 40 years ago. Curious. Anyway, your views as are mine are well enough known that they need not be repeated. Do you also feel anger about the French Vichy forces and their attacks on US forces invading North Africa? I believe that far more US Navy personnel were killed by the French than the Israelis but… somehow I “feel” that the number of deaths is not what moves you most in this particular case.

So, I personally think that this should get a far more thorough investigation if that is what you wish. Who’s obstructing the path to this in your view? Which US government officials are in charge of deciding this and why have they decided not to do anything about it?

18

a detailed rebuttal of deliberate attack claims, on a website of dubious impartiality but from a historian who has written a book on the six day war, and with lots of facts to back up his assessment.

jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso … erty1.html

19

Sworn declaration of Ward Boston, Jr., Senior Legal Counsel for the U.S. Navy’s Court of Inquiry into the attack on the Liberty

20

not much in the way of concrete evidence there spook. everything i have seen asserting a deliberate attack seems to fall into this category. “i am certain…” “murderous bastards…”

given that the isrealis apologized for the incident, and the us government considers the matter closed, is there anything more concrete out there? i accept it is possible but i want to see more evidence before i might believe the isrealis would deliberately attack a us vessel, not out of any moral reservations on their part but because it makes no political or military sense.