Reporters and editors

Discussion Open Forum
1

[quote]Nation wet, thirsty after Talim leaves
FIERCE WINDS: The storm was left weakened after Taiwan bore its full brunt, and two people died and dozens were injured from flooding and flying debris
BY CHIU YU-TZU
STAFF REPORTER , WITH AGENCIES
Friday, Sep 02, 2005,Page 1

The passage of Typhoon Talim, which entered southeastern China yesterday afternoon after being weakened by the mountains of Taiwan, left its mark throughout the country because of its strong winds and heavy rains.

Talim cut power lines, toppled billboards and tore up trees, while heavy rain led to flooding in some towns in central Taiwan.

Forecasters said that residents in the south should remain alert to heavy rain in the following days because of unstable currents wandering around southwestern Taiwan.

As of press time, statistics released by the Executive Yuan suggested that Talim has caused three deaths and left 59 people injured, 787,000 families without electricity, 48,000 household users without water supply and 287,000 users of fixed telephone lines disconnected.

One 67-year-old man surnamed Chen (陳) was drowned in a channel near his house, in Peimen (北門) Township, Tainan County. A 43-year-old man, surnamed Lou (羅), was also drowned in an irrigation channel near his house in Taian (泰安) Township, Miaoli County.
[/quote]

So … what is it 2 … 3 … no 2 … or maybe three? :unamused:

2

Not to mention that you don’t usually [color=red]die from [/color]flying debris, you are [color=red]killed by [/color]it. You die from pnemonia, boredom or being squashed flat by the 236 Bus. But I gave up on this sort of thing in the Taiwanese press a long time ago. I think it was around the 30th time I saw the phrase “pubic opinion survey” in the English language press. :smiley:

3

But before you get killed by it, it has to hit you first. :wink:

So … your pubic can’t have an opinion? For sure it doesn’t have a survey … or is the other way around? :slight_smile:

Is a pubic a he or a she? :s

4

So therefore they died from being hit by flying debris.

The newspapers here are as useless as ICRT, if the two concepts can be compared.

5

So therefore they died from being hit by flying debris.

The newspapers here are as useless as ICRT, if the two concepts can be compared.[/quote]

Oh! :ponder:

6

Yeah, well, for all of these newspapers’ faults, I’m starting to tire fairly quickly of comments that make a paltry effort to suggest why there are problems or what should change. I mean, these sorts of comments have been made for years (insert yawn emoticon here) and they still keep coming.

Every now and then some of the papers, for example, do things not too badly. But there’s no positive feedback to be had from people who are capable of a disinterested assessment. ICRT I wouldn’t know about, because I never listen to it.

Take that reporter from TT in the other thread, who did some exclusive about the Americans canceling/postponing annual military talks with the Taiwanese while the Chinese president is in the States. That seems fairly important

7

Because, of course, posting on an Internet forum and working for a published national newspaper are equivalent.

8

Tetsuo, I take your sarcasm in the spirit that was intended (I think), but really, I mean, where is Ironlady getting off on this? Does she seriously expect the newspapers here to be adjuncts of the OED?

And do you think she’s willing to go toe to toe with timmy, given what he has already acknowledged about problems with staff, management and resources, and efforts to make things better? She is, after all, directly or indirectly, mocking his work, and that of anybody else at these papers who give a shit about what they do.

I remember some time back Ironlady did a rough translation of a piece in a Chinese newspaper that covered Forumosa (Maoman was the interviewee if I recall correctly). When I read it, I was disgusted with the patronizing tone of the reporter toward Maoman and all others involved, until it was pointed out that the original wasn’t like that. I looked at the original article and discovered that the tone had changed in translation. Don’t get me wrong: this is no slur on Ironlady’s professional capacities (particularly as she said it was a rough translation), but what I say is, when you cast aspersions against people’s work without a context, if you’re willing to give it, you should be prepared to take it.

Surely the issue with the media here, as anywhere, is not pedantry over spelling mistakes, typos and editing errors, but instead over the content and its ability to inform and entertain? On that score, Ironlady and others here have nothing to say about story selection, selection of international news, photos, reviews, cartoons, puzzles or editorial line

9

I see where you’re coming from, but there are a few other things to consider here. Firstly, if they can’t even be arsed to get the typing done properly, how many other mistakes are slipping by unnoticed? I mean, if they can’t even spot that an article refers to 2 dead, 3 dead, and 2 dead again from the exact same event, how many other facts have the bollocksed up? I’m not saying that have actually screwed any facts up, but it does leave the door open to it. And whilst in a gossip rag or something that would be fine, in a newspaper, which people theoretically rely on for factually correct information, attention to detail should be important. Managing to make stupid mistakes like introducing whole new typos into wire stories and such like just looks unprofessional. Secondly, a lot of the people who get picky here about the typos and grammatical cockups are in lines of work where those things are part of the job and a daily concern - like Ironlady and myself. We just get used to spotting them - hell, even looking for them - so it’s more a habit than a deliberate attempt to slam the paper concerned. That doesn’t mean we don’t screw up ourselves - hell, if we didn’t, we wouldn’t have developed that habit. But then, you do occasionally get responses like timmy’s initial one, which, let’s be honest, made him come off like an arrogant asshole, which just spurs people on to mock and rip into the paper, rightly or wrongly. And thirdly, there have been a lot of comments on the other stuff you mentioned, particularly editorial line and comics :laughing:

I have no doubt timmy’s working to improve the TT, and I wish him the best in that effort and hope it serves as a wakeup call to the other two. But that doesn’t mean we should gloss over fuckups that should, honestly, be caught. I’ve got a copy of a paper from my last day back in NZ sitting on the other side of my room, and it’s a good 5 times the length of the TT, and I could count the number of typos and fuckups in that without even taking off my socks. Papers all around the world manage to do it, why should we not expect the same of the ones here?

10

I agree with most of what you are saying…but I would be less inclined to use a Kiwi newspaper as a benchmark, because the original content is mostly in English. In New Zealand, I expect, editors can spend most of their night editing, fact-checking etc instead of rewriting (what apparently here is) inadequate English. The papers here are better compared with half-decent English newspapers in other territories (Japan, HK, even Singapore at a stretch) that rely on a lot of source material not written by fluent speakers of English or else needs to be translated.

I get annoyed when I read sloppy writing, regardless of the medium. But with newspapers I’m more interested in the story than individual words or sentences.

11

Maybe if the various English-language newspapers in Taiwan didn’t bill themselves as sources of English for students – including holding “camps” and publishing teaching materials, and urging schools to use them as source materials – I would be a little more charitable towards them.

Plus, while I was still in Taiwan, it WAS downright nauseating at times to wade through it. Although I do admit to wonderment at the concept of a newbie xiaojie reporter wandering around Taipei sticking a microphone into people’s private parts and asking for opinions. :smiley:

12

Hey, on this issue I am in full agreement with you, and I often wonder whether the resources put into these redundant sections of the newspapers wouldn’t be better spent on quality control, pushing advertising accounts and marketing to the foreign community. It’s one thing to make mistakes when you’re communicating the news; it’s another thing entirely when you consistently present sub-par English expression and label yourself a language educator.

13

“Ooh, I found some typos/ grammatical errors/ poorly written English in a local English newspaper.”

So English papers here contain errors do they? Tell us something we don’t already know. This point has been made over and over and over and over again. Do we really need another thread about it?

14

I agree, I’m fed up with idiots knocking the local rags cos of grammer/spelling mistakes.

Every newspaper in the word has them, Christ even the BBC has them.

But then have those who do nothing but knock the local rags ever really read one of those properly. probably not. They never had to when they lived at homem in, but as soon as they arrive in another country they start to rave about it. Have mnay of those who complain actually lived - not traveled to and taken happy snapper pics - in another Asian country and read the rags there?

This stinks of more of the same “I live/have lived in Taiwan for XX years and I know eveything” BS!

Maybne there should a a mesage board where these types of people can talk to each other!

15

[quote=“ironlady”]Maybe if the various English-language newspapers in Taiwan didn’t bill themselves as sources of English for students – including holding “camps” and publishing teaching materials, and urging schools to use them as source materials – I would be a little more charitable towards them.

[/quote]

It is interesting how the ROC Consumers’ Foundation can find fault with any product and get the media’s attention. Last time it was honey, I think. I wonder when they will do this product.

16

It’s spelled “'cause” :wink:

But in substantially smaller numbers.

Well, I have, so you can stick that argument right up you. I don’t know about now, but a few years back the SCMP, whilst not the best paper I’ve ever read, was substantially more diligent than the Taiwanese papers.

Total Clayton’s argument mate, and always one used when the arguer doesn’t actually have an argument to make.

Now try again.

17

[quote]Every now and then some of the papers, for example, do things not too badly. But there’s no positive feedback to be had from people who are capable of a disinterested assessment. ICRT I wouldn’t know about, because I never listen to it.
[/quote]

Every now and then. Precisely.

I think the amount they charge people to buy their papers compared to the amount of reliable content inside them doesnt match up. I wouldn’t buy one of the newspapers to read exactly the same stories I read in other international papers on the internet - which the majority of news articles seem to be.

Here’s some constuctive critcism. Why don’t the managers and the big wigs working for the “English” newspapers go to other parts of Asia - like Malaysia or Thailand for example - and have a look at the superior content of their newspapers compared to those in Taiwan. I know, zhujianlun, that you probably disagree with this point.

What’s more, there seems to be very little news on Taiwan in the newspapers as the bulk of the stories are from the US or other parts of the world. If I’m in Taiwan, I’d like a newspaper which focuses less on the international state of affairs and more on Taiwan.

Backpacker, I don’t think the BBC has newspapers :laughing:

Backpacker, I constantly complain about shit newspapers in my country.

18

[quote=“belgian pie”][quote]Nation wet, thirsty after Talim leaves
FIERCE WINDS: The storm was left weakened after Taiwan bore its full brunt, and two people died and dozens were injured from flooding and flying debris
BY CHIU YU-TZU
STAFF REPORTER , WITH AGENCIES
Friday, Sep 02, 2005,Page 1

The passage of Typhoon Talim, which entered southeastern China yesterday afternoon after being weakened by the mountains of Taiwan, left its mark throughout the country because of its strong winds and heavy rains.

Talim cut power lines, toppled billboards and tore up trees, while heavy rain led to flooding in some towns in central Taiwan.

Forecasters said that residents in the south should remain alert to heavy rain in the following days because of unstable currents wandering around southwestern Taiwan.

As of press time, statistics released by the Executive Yuan suggested that Talim has caused three deaths and left 59 people injured, 787,000 families without electricity, 48,000 household users without water supply and 287,000 users of fixed telephone lines disconnected.

One 67-year-old man surnamed Chen (陳) was drowned in a channel near his house, in Peimen (北門) Township, Tainan County. A 43-year-old man, surnamed Lou (羅), was also drowned in an irrigation channel near his house in Taian (泰安) Township, Miaoli County.
[/quote]

So … what is it 2 … 3 … no 2 … or maybe three? :unamused:[/quote] Bp, the reason for that is Typhoon Talim was an ongoing story. Updated information was coming to hand while the story was being written. Press time rolled around and hey presto, it’s in the newspaper as an unfinished article. That was a front page news article and the front page news can change at the drop of a hat. It was probably press time before there was time for both proof-reading and editing the article a final time.

Note the second to last paragraph reads [quote]As of press time[/quote] so then up to that paragraph of the article was written before press time.
The information was updated as it came in which led to the inconsistency.