This has been in the works for weeks, but today House Republicans have announced that they will tie continued funding of the US government, and payment of the US debt to the complete and permanent defunding of Obamacare. Republicans have completely lost it. Their obsession with opposing Obamacare is surreal. Obamacare is based on Romneycare, which has resulted in 98% of adults and 99% of children in Massachussetts covered by comprehensive health insurance. There is no objective evidence for believing that Obamacare will destroy the nation, but that’s exactly what Republicans believe and claim. They are now willing to shut down nearly all government services, and default the US on its debt, the latter of which would be the first time in history. And for what? Just to make a point? Completely absurd. I have a feeling they’re going to make good on their threat this time.
Ironically, Obamacare would do nothing but good, while shutting down government services and worse, defaulting the US, will cause real, tangible harm to Americans. Hopefully, Americans will place the blame where it belongs, with Republicans, and vote the bums out of the House in 2014.
Yeah I’ve been following this one pretty close as well and I agree I think this time may actually be different than all the other times in recent years the Republicans have tried to take American to the brink of default as a bargaining chip. Tying it in with defunding of Obamacare may start them on a path that makes it impossible for an 11th hour deal to be struck. This is a legitimately dangerous game they are playing this time around. Obama simply can’t allow a precedent to be set for future debt ceiling negotiations. Republicans either back down, or government shuts down. I don’t think Obama can cave this time…
Budget talks shouldn’t be this melodramatic. Republicans are scared because they know what a smashing success RomneyCare has been and continues to be in Massachusetts, and they don’t want that success repeated at the national level. Why? Because they hate Obama, and they were dumb enough to nickname the Affordable Care Act as “ObamaCare”. If success at the national level comes even close to success at the state level, Republicans will be seen as fearmongering, spiteful bigots. Obama will take his place as one of the nation’s great presidents. That’s what they don’t want.
Republicans are like children, taking everything personally. Their criticisms of Obama have very little to do with his policies. Everything is personal. We’ve seen it in this forum as well. His critics attack him personally, and every attack is an absurdity. When Bush was president, I opposed most of his policies, but I didn’t hate him. I didn’t even dislike him. I certainly didn’t think he was an evil Muslim socialist antichrist bent on worldwide destruction. I just disagreed with him, that’s it. Republicans have reduced themselves to clowns, and worst of all, they’re not even funny clowns.
That suggest you’re not living in the United States and know little of the everyday reality there. Several employers are already planning to cut employee hours to less than 30 hours a week in order to avoid Obamacare. Others will drop company coverage altogether because it’s cheaper to pay the fine. Some simply just wont hire as many workers. Healthy 21 year-olds will have to pay nearly $300/month for health coverage under Obama, I doubt most will pay it. The most effective health care plans in the U.S. come from private large companies that pool employee contributions for a common fund. Obama intends to dismantle these in order to force their contribution to a more expensive national system.
Larger companies are exempt for the time being, so now Obamacare amounts to a middle class gouge in order to subsidize a bloated and money sucking health care system. MRIs have increased 5-fold since 2005 because of the amount hospitals can charge for them. Maybe now they’ll be able to double that number. If America wants to attempt national health insurance they should model it more closely to Taiwan’s (minus the doctor visits for the common cold). 25% of the health care costs in the U.S. is paper work, a sizable chunk from malpractice insurance, and who knows how much from needless treatment and keeping the terminally ill alive for an extra couple of months regardless of quality of life. Much needs to be done to change health care in the states but Obamacare is going to be a money pit that will cause more problems than it’s trying to solve.
I don’t really care if Republicans stop it or not (and I doubt they will), because it’s going to reveal itself as a disaster sooner than later.
U.S. postal service= broke
Social Security = broke
Medicare = broke
U.S. government = broke
Hey, I know…lets let the government manage everyone’s health care.
I don’t really care if Republicans stop it or not (and I doubt they will), because it’s going to reveal itself as a disaster sooner than later.
U.S. postal service= broke
Social Security = broke
Medicare = broke
U.S. government = broke
Hey, I know…lets let the government manage everyone’s health care.
Idiots[/quote]
Good idea! At least government should have a strong role in that, as you can see in the world’s best health care systems.
But anyway, GB’s main point is, as I understand it: Whether people agree with Obamacare or not, surely it’s not worth payment default brinksmanship that will rattle markets both in the US and abroad?
It’s pretty unfair to criticize Obamacare. First, it didn’t get implemented fully in it’s intended form. They did the best they could given the massive resistance the Republicans were throwing at them at every single opportunity and a lot of allowances were made along the way to even make it possible at all in this poisonous political atmosphere. Secondly, major programs are always intended to be a work in progress. You launch the new system and make improvements as you go, that’s how it works. How can that happen with the Republicans being against every single thing Obama wants regardless of reason or merit.
The Republicans resisted it the best they could, then bastardized it as much as possible, and now turn around and say see it has some problems.
I thought things were pretty disfunctional when Clinton was president, but that was nothing compared to now. Honestly if it were possible, I think the union should be dissolved. With the help of talk radio and Fox News, epistemic closure is so complete that it seems to me that the Republicans should go live on their own little planet physically as well as intellectually.
Conspiracy theory nonsense. Obamacare doesn’t even include any kind of national health insurance. Employer sponsored health insurance remains in tact, unfortunately. I would love to see a single payer system in place. They’re far cheaper and more efficient.
It’s certainly true that some restaurants and the like are going to cut hours to weasel out of providing health insurance for their employees. That’s why I am against employer sponsored health insurance and prefer a single payer system. And from an economic point of view, it’s not efficient for workers to rely on their employers for health insurance. It discourages mobility.
Yesterday the House voted to cut food stamps by 40 billion dollars over 10 years. If it becomes law, then millions will go without food stamps starting in 2014. It’s what God wants, I’m sure.
It matters not whether you win or lose, but where you place the blame.
[quote=“BrentGolf”]It’s pretty unfair to criticize Obamacare. First, it didn’t get implemented fully in it’s intended form. They did the best they could given the massive resistance the Republicans were throwing at them at every single opportunity and a lot of allowances were made along the way to even make it possible at all in this poisonous political atmosphere. Secondly, major programs are always intended to be a work in progress. You launch the new system and make improvements as you go, that’s how it works. How can that happen with the Republicans being against every single thing Obama wants regardless of reason or merit.
The Republicans resisted it the best they could, then bastardized it as much as possible, and now turn around and say see it has some problems. [/quote]
Conspiracy theory nonsense. Obamacare doesn’t even include any kind of national health insurance. Employer sponsored health insurance remains in tact, unfortunately. I would love to see a single payer system in place. They’re far cheaper and more efficient.
It’s certainly true that some restaurants and the like are going to cut hours to weasel out of providing health insurance for their employees. That’s why I am against employer sponsored health insurance and prefer a single payer system. And from an economic point of view, it’s not efficient for workers to rely on their employers for health insurance. It discourages mobility.[/quote]
The “Cadillac tax” portion of Obamacare set to begin in 2018 will take out the best high-end ESI plans on the market. I guess forcing everyone into plans with high out-of-pocket cost for treatment and more limited coverage is better in your view of reality. After employers are forced to drop their plans from the ridiculously high tax it will push people to sign up for the gold and platinum plans under Obamacare who wish to obtain reasonable coverage, although it will still be lacking compared to the best ESI plans. Oh, a lot more than “some restaurants” are already announcing future plans to weasel out of it :roflmao: Considering the thread, I guess I could just wheeze out a bunch of whiny, unsubstantiated slants instead
[quote=“buzzkill1”]
The “Cadillac tax” portion of Obamacare set to begin in 2018 will take out the best high-end ESI plans on the market. I guess forcing everyone into plans with high out-of-pocket cost for treatment and more limited coverage is better in your view of reality. After employers are forced to drop their plans from the ridiculously high tax it will push people to sign up for the gold and platinum plans under Obamacare who wish to obtain reasonable coverage, although it will still be lacking compared to the best ESI plans. Oh, a lot more than “some restaurants” are already announcing future plans to weasel out of it :roflmao: Considering the thread, I guess I could just wheeze out a bunch of whiny, unsubstantiated slants instead [/quote]
The “Cadillac” tax on high value insurance plans is real, but it’s not expected to disrupt the employer sponsored insurance market. And, oh yeah, surprise! there’s a cost to major health care reform. Everything is a trade off. The benefits are: no more lifetime caps, no more gender discrimination, no more preexisting conditions, no more refusal to issue health insurance for any reason but fraud. Benefits also include a Medicaid expansion in participating states and federal subsidies to middle class families.
If Obamacare is really so terrible, then Republicans should have no problem funding it. Surely it will be so bad that the public demands a repeal? I repeat, Republicans are not afraid Obamacare will fail, they’re afraid it will succeed.
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