Anybody want to guess the real reason for Sharon’s visit now?
The tail’s going to wag the dog again in June/July.
Spook -
I’ll see your CNN article and raise you a Debkafile - “Did Bush and Sharon Figure out How to Preempt a Hamas Election Victory?” story.
excert -
" Hizballah gave a graphic demonstration of its power in Lebanon and among Palestinian terrorist groups Monday. April 11, by flying an Iranian-made Mirsad spy drone over northern Israel at the same moment as Bush and Sharon began their talks in Texas. In the West Bank and Gaza Strip, the Lebanese terror group stands foursquare not only behind the Islamic radicals but Fatah groups as well.
These new developments must have given the US president and Israeli prime minister plenty of food for thought. Any new decisions that may have been taken did not come to light in their news conference. It will take a couple of days until the real substance of their talks begins to surface. " end excert
Do not think that we have the ability to deal with Iran right now. Wish we did but be of good cheer. For the moment, things are going well in Iraq. This will it is hoped allow us to free up 50,000 troops by year-end. That makes a very very big difference to how and where we can mobilize. I think, however, for Iran, we are going to have to rely on the people themselves to rise up against the mullahs. Here’s hoping they do and let’s make sure that we give them all the support they need.
You are not against the mullahs being overthrown are you spook?
No. They’re fascist weasels. I wasn’t against the Shah being overthrown either though.
Fred, you’re not paying attention. This is a balance of power issue between Israel and Iran and anyone who bets it will just going away really believed Operation Iraqi Freedom was about democracy and freedom for the Iraqi people.
TC, let’s play poker sometime. I could use some spending money. I owe you some beers anyway.
spook
Regardless, the Iraqis don’t seem to mind being rid of Saddam and I am sure the Iranians will be happy to see the end of the mullahocracy. What is it with you and the Jews, er, Israelis anyway? Try to pawn something once and they demanded too much to get it back? What? I find it incredible with the momentous changes that are going on in the Middle East that you still look at everything through an Israel filter.
There’s a simple test coming up this summer as to which of us is seeing the situation realistically, you or I.
Stay tuned.
Comparison to the strike on Osirak.
[quote]Don’t expect another Osirak
By Christopher Holton, SPECIAL TO WORLD TECH TRIBUNE.COM, Thursday, April 14, 2005
"On 7 June 1981, Israeli pilots flying F-16s, escorted by F-15s, bombed Iraq
I don’t expect an Israeli airstrike or a full-out US invasion of Iran. Not even Bush would be stupid enough to go through all of that again, but you can bet there are plenty of special forces and CIA operatives already inside Iran trying to do or plan something, whether it be carry out sabotage on Iranian nuclear facilities, or stirring up domestic unrest. But one way or another, the mullahs need to go down.
As for Hezbollah, they’re grasping at straws and breathing their last breath, hence the reason they’ve been so vocal lately. Intelligence shows that a large proportion of the supposed 500,000+ people they mobilized for the “pro-Syrian” demonstration in Lebanon were bussed in from Syria. Eventually, and probably sooner than later, the Lebanese people will start wondering why this ONE militia group is still hanging onto their arms and causing trouble for them, blowing things up, and preventing them from being able to send their kids to school safely, freely elect their leaders, and start to reap more of the economic benefits that await them with a better relationship with the West. And I’m very pleased to see that the US and France are able to work together on this one.
The logistical problems for an Israeli air strike are formidable, mostly involving airspace. The options are Turkey/Azerbaijan or Jordan/Iraq.
If the nuclear red light goes on in Iran though the balance of power will fundamentally shift in the Middle East with about the same results as if Saddam had had nuclear capability.
The irony of this is that Iraq was a counterbalance to Iran in the region and has now been transformed into a sympathetic fellow Shiite ‘theocracy.’ The other irony is that by tying itself up in Iraq chasing non-existent nuclear weapons, the U.S. significantly reduced its ability to deal with real nuclear proliferation.
I don’t think Iraq will become a Shiite-controlled theocracy. The TRA law, which is being used as the basis for the constitution, as well as the large number of seats in the National Assembly won by the Kurds, thus preventing an outright majority by the Shiites, will prevent this from happening, hopefully. In relation to this, the Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani is much, much more moderate than the Iranian mullahs, despite his years spent in exile in Iran. Plus, I don’t think Iraq’s neighbors nor the U.S. would allow this to happen.
"Army Radio reported that Deputy Minister Orit Noked (Labor), who spoke with Ayalon on Friday night, said the visit represented the beginning of a concerted effort to obtain Pollard’s release. Yediot Ahronot reported on Friday that the US administration might release Pollard as a sop to Israeli public opinion in light of US support for the planned expulsion of thousands of Israeli citizens from their homes in Gaza and Samaria this summer. The paper suggested that US President George W. Bush plans to pardon Israeli spy Jonathan Pollard , who has served over 20 years of a life sentence, as a “present” to Sharon."
[color=blue]"By his own estimates Pollard passed to his Israeli handlers more than 800 classified publications and more than 1,000 cables, probably the largest cache of materials ever passed through espionage. At one point, when Pollard’s new wife was hoping to clinch a job interview at an international public relations firm with branches in China, he brought home five secret studies on China. Her presentation was assessed as brilliant.
. . . then Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger said, “It is difficult for me…to conceive of greater harm done to national security.”[/color]
Let me see. So the Israelis are never to be thrown a sop. Why did we not take out Fallujah in April if not sensitivity to various Arabs. What about France, Germany, Belgium, Turkey? I do not doubt that Pollard passed on a lot of documents BUT I have to wonder why this obsession with Israel Spook. I do not care about Pollard. Overall, Israel has been the best friend the US has in the Middle East often because of necessity. I am sure that they must look out for their own interests however since no one else will. Many nations realized that it only takes another Carter and God only knows who we will desert next. I think that is another of Carter’s legacies that will be with us forever. Desertion. Betrayal. Vacillation. Ineptitude.
Understanding the behind-the-scenes relationship between the United States and Israel is the key to understanding the future of American policy – and the American peoples’ involvment – in Middle East affairs. Everything I discuss below is freely reported in the Israeli press but almost unknown to the American public.
The purpose of Sharon’s visit was to drag the U.S. more urgently into Israel’s regional balance-of-power confrontation with Iran and to secure a commutation of Pollard’s life sentence for espionage, both of which will have a significant impact on the future of the American people in their own way.
Jonathan Pollard is regarded as a patriot in Israel but as a traitor by the U.S. intelligence community which understands the significant damage he did to U.S. security. Many in the intelligence community take the position that they’d accede to the political pressures to release Pollard on the condition that the Israeli government simply give a complete catalog of everything Pollard turned over to them and describe in detail how this material was used and by whom. Israel has refused to do that.
Israel continues to be a very poor and even dangerous ally to this day:
"The United States has curbed Israel’s involvement in development of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, the biggest warplane program ever, because of its arms deals with China opposed by Washington, U.S. defense officials said on Friday (15April,2005). . .
“Technology has made its way inappropriately to China via Israel,” the official said. “There have been many violations of technology transfer agreements.”
Haaretz, 16April, 2005
[color=blue]So the real questions are why aren’t these developments reported and discussed in the U.S., though they’re widely reported and debated in the Israeli press, since the U.S. will be equally affected by them, and why do American supporters of Israel try to discourage any discussion of them with false accusations of anti-semitism?[/color]
From the same article:
[quote]"Israel is a minor participant in the F-35 program, which is being developed by Bethesda, Maryland-based Lockheed Martin Corp. with eight full-fledged foreign partners who have already put up funds: Britain, Italy, the Netherlands, Turkey, Canada, Australia, Denmark and Norway.
On February 14, 2003, Israel signed a letter of intent to contribute an estimated $50 million to the program, which is building a family of fighter/attack jets, including conventional take-off and landing models for the U.S. Air Force and short take-off vertical landing for the U.S. Marine Corps and Britain’s Royal Navy.
Israel is continuing studies of the configuration of the F-35 it would like to buy, an Israeli diplomat said. The U.S. remains committed to selling the aircraft to Israel, said Whitman, the Pentagon spokesman.
Cheryl Limrick, a spokeswoman for the Pentagon’s Joint Strike Fighter program office, said Israel’s status as a “security cooperation participant” was designed to provide “insight” into the development program. She did not respond to a request for details.
In 2000, Israel canceled a planned sale to China of the Phalcon airborne early-warning radar system under U.S. pressure."[/quote]
spook -
Reading the entire article illustrates a slightly different context than using selected parts.
This information is widely available and read in the US. It is mis-direction on your part to refer to US-Israeli relations press coverage as " Everything I discuss below is freely reported in the Israeli press [i]but almost unknown to the American public."[/i]
Why do you refer to these actions as ‘not reported’ or ‘unknown to the American public’?
Do you think ‘Americans’ do not use the internet?
Sorry to surprise you but the US populace is much better informed than you seem to believe.
And, how do “…American supporters of Israel try to discourage any discussion of them with false accusations of anti-semitism?”
Facts are facts, lies are lies and half-truths are misdirections.
Amazing, just amazing…lol
Also from the report:
"In recent months (2005), Pentagon leaders have been angered in particular by what they consider an upgrading of spare parts for China’s fleet of Israeli-supplied Harpy attack drones.
“Technology has made its way inappropriately to China via Israel,” the official said. “There have been many violations of technology transfer agreements.”
[color=blue]Where in the major U.S. media did you see reports that the Pentagon just excluded Israel from involvement in the development of the F-35? How many people here were aware of this or that Sharon pushed Bush at their meeting in Crawford last week to release a convicted U.S. spy?
How about a show of hands to gauge the level of general awareness of these events?"[/color]
How about a show of hands to gauge the level of general awareness of these events?"[/color][/quote]spook -
Fair enough Q.
I suspect the most accurate answer would be - “Everyone to who this news would be relevant is aware of these actions.”
As I sincerely doubt that the number of people on Forumosa to whom this would apply is miniscule if extant at all, I don’t expect to see many hands here. But you knew that.
You are phrasing your questions based on your intended conclusions. Speculative at best, agenda driven at worst.
[color=blue]Haaretz, one of Israel’s major daily newspapers, as well as Reuters, quoting U.S. defense officials:[/color]
“The United States has curbed Israel’s involvement in development of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, the biggest warplane program ever, because of its arms deals with China opposed by Washington, U.S. defense officials said on Friday.”
[color=blue]Try searching for coverage of it on CNN, the NY Times, Washington Post this past week though.[/color]
[color=blue]It’s a widely reported topic in Israel currently. IsraelInsider, a major daily news magazine, for example.[/color]
“Army Radio reported that Deputy Minister Orit Noked (Labor), who spoke with Ayalon on Friday night, said the visit represented the beginning of a concerted effort to obtain Pollard’s release. Yediot Ahronot reported on Friday that the US administration might release Pollard . . .”
.
So Spook:
You are getting exactly what you want but this does sort of kind of well in a way prove that the Jews, er rather the Israeli lobby is not as strong as many might think. Hell, if they are being cut out of this, then maybe they I mean THEY aren’t as strong as you seem to think, right?
And despite their No. 3 status, they cannot get what they want from the Bush administration. You have just posted information showing that they have been dropped from cooperative research and development of these weapons. So what exactly is your point? That their money and influence are being poorly spent? haha