Russia invades Ukraine: General Discussion 2023

Mine was from yesterday, I will dig to find the link if you like.

Part of the equation here is Russia is knocking out munitions at a rate that far exceeds the West. For all sorts of reasons, that’s a discussion in and of itself.

russia can’t even figure out how to refuel a tank 10km from their border, imagine they can’t hit the broad side of a barn with shit.

Balancing liberal secular democracy against autocracies that use liberalism against it is tricky.

MSM are the problem? Perhaps to a degree. Prefer autocratic media?


In that case, since the Ukrainians aren’t shelling mother Russia, logic suggests the death toll will be higher on the Ukrainian side

No doubt. Accuracy of munitions and accuracy of intelligence probably skew towards Ukraine thanks to NATO (multiple reports have suggested Russia is firing old North Korean shells), while willingness to fire on civilians gives Putin the death toll advantage

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For those who do, this story brought to you by TASS:

For those who haven’t been paying attention to where the money comes from:

It would be better to send the Abrams to Poland (they already operate them) and let them send more Leopards.

One step closer to boots on the ground.

I understood that Germany required the US send tanks, politics trumps sense

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Poland could trade with us first, then we could send the Leopards. Biden could even drive it across the border if necessary :slight_smile:




These tanks are going to make a big difference.

The democratic west are upping the anti each time Putin pushes it. Sensible and logical. They’re gaming the man.

Are they though? Won’t they be vulnerable to the same kind of tactics that have led to heavy Russian tank losses?

I suspect they’re wanted primarily in case a large scale invasion does materialize. They could be very useful then, true.

Russia doesn’t have the western weapons and training there, and these tanks have better armor, but yeah

As was discussed on the discussion thread, a handful of tanks isn’t going to make a difference. But once 100 are sent, more can follow. In addition to the other heavy weapons sent and being sent, one weapon could make the difference in the battle for a strategic victory that wins the war

Next up on the shopping list is gonna be fighter jets (i know they’re already asking)

I’m sure they must have some good infantry-operated anti-tank rocket weapons. It’s not rocket science :slight_smile: Back in the day, their RPG was a threat

So they do, with success against the specific incoming tanks (by other operators)

9M133 Kornet - Wikipedia(Russian%3A%20%D0%9A%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%B5%D1%82,the%20Russian%20army%20in%201998.

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The Russians have always loved rockets.

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I’ve yet to see evidence of Ukraine using armour without infantry support, as Russia has been.

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They have to conserve what they have much more than Russia. Even with this mild injection that will still be true.


I know (via Dan Carlin) that a large proportion of Ottoman Empire slaves were white Europeans, although whether they were the majority I’m unsure. It doesn’t seem implausible, though.

The main sources of slaves were wars and politically organized enslavement expeditions in the Caucasus, Eastern Europe, Southern Europe, the Balkans, and Africa. It has been reported that the selling price of slaves decreased after large military operations.[2] In Constantinople (present-day Istanbul), the administrative and political center of the Ottoman Empire, about a fifth of the 16th- and 17th-century population consisted of slaves.[3] Statistics of these centuries suggest that Istanbul’s additional slave imports from the Black Sea have totaled around 2.5 million from 1453 to 1700.


This isn’t a mild injection.