Sadam Hussein trial live now

What is important here is not whether or not Saddam should stand trial, but rather the hundreds of murdering dictators like him who never stood trial and the hundreds that never will because as “our friends” they are still useful to us. Saddam’s real crime was to outlive his usefulness.

[quote=“ac_dropout”][quote]
nytimes.com/2005/10/19/inter … anted=2&hp

That has opened the tribunal up to intense criticism from Western human rights groups, who accuse the judges of being political pawns and of flouting international standards of fair justice. Few legal organizations outside of Iraq and the United States accept the trial as anything more than a display of “victor’s justice.” Both Human Rights Watch and the International Center for Transitional Justice, respected groups based in New York, issued statements this month condemning the shoddy research and shaky legal framework that form the backbone of the trial, apparently pieced together for expediency’s sake.[/quote]

Hmmm…in short some experts think it is a kangaroo court.[/quote]

Which is why so many people now have a low opinion of “legal experts”.

[quote=“Comrade Stalin”]
He should be given the same kind of trial he gave others. And then be fed into one of his paper shredders.[/quote]

I think that it’s very important that this trial meets international standards of justice. If it doesn’t it will just throw fuel on the fire that is Iraq. If everyone is sure he is guilty, then what is the problem with giving him a fair, transparent and open trial letting him make any defense that he sees fit. It would go a long way to showing the people of Iraq that they are no longer in the bad old days of Saddam but that things are now truly different. If there are concerns about the trial from various rights groups then these need to be addressed so that the people can have more confidence in the trial process.

[quote=“Gilgamesh”]
I think that it’s very important that this trial meets international standards of justice. [/quote]

What “international standards of justice”? :laughing:

[quote=“Miranda”]What is important here is not whether or not Saddam should stand trial, but rather the hundreds of murdering dictators like him who never stood trial and the hundreds that never will because as “our friends” they are still useful to us. Saddam’s real crime was to outlive his usefulness.[/quote]Miranda -
Do ya’ think the lawyers for the defense will use these issues? :banana: :roflmao: :yay: :bs:

[quote=“TainanCowboy”][quote=“Miranda”]What is important here is not whether or not Saddam should stand trial, but rather the hundreds of murdering dictators like him who never stood trial and the hundreds that never will because as “our friends” they are still useful to us. Saddam’s real crime was to outlive his usefulness.[/quote]Miranda -
Do ya’ think the lawyers for the defense will use these issues? :banana: :roflmao: :yay: :bs:[/quote]

Might not be useful to the court but true nevertheless and worthy enough to be pointed out :bravo: unless you have a problem with that

Saddam should be grateful that he’s being ‘grandfathered’ in under the old due process clause. Since the Patriot Act – which has universal jurisdiction – passed we’re no longer even required to give the guilty trials. That’s now reserved for the innocent and it’s high time we stop wasting the time and money if you ask me.

Kurdish Iraqi President Jalal Talabani said he is against executing Saddam and would resign from the presidency rather than sign a dearth warrant.

Do you really think Israelis are in favour of gassing people? That would be kind of ironic, wouldn’t it?

p.s. For your information, my darling ex-wife is Kurdish.

Some of you may have wondered on what grounds Human Rights Watch issued a 20-page report on October 16 expressing serious concerns that Saddam

Thanks for putting that up, MT. It made for some interesting reading.

Yes, that’s a hell of a post. :bravo:

[url=http://hrw.org/backgrounder/mena/iraq1005/]Lower Standard of Proof
Pursuant to general standards of international law, the right to a fair trial requires that the accused be found guilty only if the charges are proved beyond a reasonable doubt. That standard is applied in all international criminal tribunals trying crimes such as those alleged against Saddam, but that standard does not apply in this case. Instead, in this case Saddam and the other defendants may be convicted on the

I guess that might be possible in theory, Tigerman, but in reality its

  • hard to imagine a “much higher standard” than “beyond a reasonable doubt” (beyond any doubt? absolute certainty?). I’ve never heard of a higher standard being required for any matter in any legal process anywhere and I’d challenge you to come up with an example,

  • even harder to imagine any judge applying such standard, and

  • fantasy to imagine any judge applying a higher standard than that in this case.

[quote=“Mother Theresa”] . . . its

  • hard to imagine a “much higher standard” than “beyond a reasonable doubt” (beyond any doubt? absolute certainty?). I’ve never heard of a higher standard being required for any matter in any legal process anywhere and I’d challenge you to come up with an example [/quote]

Well, there’s the one that got Saddam into this whole mess in the first place. I don’t know what the legal term is but it’s known among laypeople as the “snowball’s chance in hell.”

[quote=“Juba”]
p.s. For your information, my darling ex-wife is Kurdish.[/quote]

What do you feel her family say about it?

[quote=“TheGingerMan”][quote=“Juba”]
p.s. For your information, my darling ex-wife is Kurdish.[/quote]
What do you feel her family say about it?[/quote]
Can’t help you there. They live in a country I have never been to and we don’t speak each other’s languages.

[quote=“Juba”][quote=“TheGingerMan”][quote=“Juba”]
p.s. For your information, my darling ex-wife is Kurdish.[/quote]
What do you feel her family say about it?[/quote]
Can’t help you there. They live in a country I have never been to and we don’t speak each other’s languages.[/quote]

Sounds like the recipe for a happy marriage. :slight_smile:

Once again, if Saddam and his cohorts really did the acts alleged against them, I hope they are found guilty and suitably punished, BUT here’s more cause to believe they won’t get fair trials (which includes the right to be represented by adequate counsel of their choosing):

[quote]Oct. 21 - A lawyer representing one of the co-defendants in the trial of Saddam Hussein was found dead with a bullet wound to the head in Baghdad, the Iraqi government said today, in an act of violence that demonstrated the difficulty of conducting a secure trial in war-torn Iraq.

The slain lawyer, Sadoun Antar Nusaif al-Janabi, was abducted from his office in the affluence Al Shaab neighborhood in northeast Baghdad on Thursday night and found dead before midnight, according to an Interior Ministry official who requested anonymity for fear of retribution. Witnesses said Mr. Janabi was taken by several men wearing suits and driving a sports utility vehicle. . .

Mr. Janabi represented Awad Ahmad al-Bander, a co-defendant in Mr. Hussein’s trial . . . who sat next to Mr. Hussein in the courtroom on Wednesday, the first day of the televised trial. . .[/quote]

nytimes.com/2005/10/21/inter … aq.html?hp

[quote=“Mother Theresa”]Once again, if Saddam and his cohorts really did the acts alleged against them, I hope they are found guilty and suitably punished, BUT here’s more cause to believe they won’t get fair trials (which includes the right to be represented by adequate counsel of their choosing):

[quote]Oct. 21 - A lawyer representing one of the co-defendants in the trial of Saddam Hussein was found dead with a bullet wound to the head in Baghdad, the Iraqi government said today, in an act of violence that demonstrated the difficulty of conducting a secure trial in war-torn Iraq.

The slain lawyer, Sadoun Antar Nusaif al-Janabi, was abducted from his office in the affluence Al Shaab neighborhood in northeast Baghdad on Thursday night and found dead before midnight, according to an Interior Ministry official who requested anonymity for fear of retribution. Witnesses said Mr. Janabi was taken by several men wearing suits and driving a sports utility vehicle. . .

Mr. Janabi represented Awad Ahmad al-Bander, a co-defendant in Mr. Hussein’s trial . . . who sat next to Mr. Hussein in the courtroom on Wednesday, the first day of the televised trial. . .[/quote]

nytimes.com/2005/10/21/inter … aq.html?hp[/quote]
I’m not sure what to thinking of that killing. Who did it? Was it Saddam haters or anti-government types who did it because the defense lawyers dared have anything to do with the trial at all? I sincerely hope that this trial will work out and I think it’s the right of the Iraqis to hold it, but so far I am not impressed with their performance. I would also think that if there were ever a time when the US military were to get directly involved in domestic procedures, protection of those involved in the trial would be a justifiable time to do so.

Iraqis should take a lesson or two from Peruvians. Shining Path leader Abimael Guzman was tried in a cage.