Lets hope that wiser heads prevail and he receives adequate legal representation, a fair trial and a sentence commensurate with the standards of civilized society. If we can’t insist on the rule of law being applied instead of lashing out in revenge then we shouldn’t expect anyone else to.
[quote]Saddam Hussein will get a fair trial before a war crimes tribunal that was approved just last week, members of the Iraqi Governing Council said Sunday.
The court sessions will be “open to the public, with the press, so that people in Iraq can see the nature of crimes committed with Saddam at the helm,” said Dara Noor Alzin.
cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/12/ … am.future/[/quote]
I’m hoping to that he will receive a fair trial. Its not as if they need to manufacture evidence to frame him of any crimes. It will be interesting to watch this drama unfold… and I think that the way that they try him will be indicative of the type of nation the Iraqis wish to make.
[quote]The wild gray beard was gone, and he sat on a metal Army cot, just awake from a nap, in socks and black slippers. He was not handcuffed. He did not recognize all his visitors, but they recognized him. That was the purpose of the visit: to help confirm that this was, in fact, Saddam Hussein.
What came next was, according to people in the room, an extraordinary 30 minutes, in which four members of the Governing Council, among the new leaders of Iraq, grilled the nation’s deposed and now captured leader about his crimes. Mr. Hussein, they said, was defiant and unrepentant but very much defeated.
“The world is crazy,” said Mowaffak al-Rubaie, one of the council members in the room today after Mr. Hussein was captured in his hometown of Tikrit. “I was in his torture chamber in 1979 and now he was sitting there, powerless in front of me without anybody stopping me from doing anything to him. Just imagine. We were arguing, and he was using very foul language.”
Ahmad Chalabi, the head of the Iraqi National Congress, said: “He was quite lucid. He had command of his faculties. He would not apologize to the Iraqi people. He did not deny any of the crimes he was confronted with having done. He tried to justify them.”
Following Mr. Hussein’s capture in an eight-foot hole that one council member said was filled with “rats and mice” the four council members were taken by helicopter this afternoon to a military base, at a site they would not disclose. Two other council members, in addition to Mr. Rubaie and Dr. Chalabi, were aboard: Adnan Pachachi, the foreign minister before Mr. Hussein came to power; and Adel Abdel Mahdi, who represents the Shia religious body, the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq.
Two of Iraq’s other new leaders were there, too: L. Paul Bremer III, the American civilian administrator of Iraq; and Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, commander of ground forces in Iraq. The room was small, Mr. Rubaie said, and General Sanchez asked the men if they would like to see him through a window or by camera.
"We said, ‘No, we want to talk to him,’ " Mr. Rubaie said.
Aides to the men differed slightly about what happened next: One said that Mr. Hussein, who they said had just awakened, did not recognize any of his visitors. Another said he recognized Dr. Chalabi and asked him to introduce the others.
"Saddam turned to Pachachi and said: ‘You were the foreign minister of Iraq. What are you doing with these people?’ " one aide said.
Mr. Rubaie said he had asked the first question which, he said, was met with a brutal and dismissive joke. He said he had asked why Mr. Hussein had killed two leading Shia clerics: Muhammad Bakr al-Sadr, killed in 1980; and Muhammad Sadiq al-Sadr, killed in 1999.
The word “sadr” means “chest” in Arabic, and Mr. Hussein replied, “Al Sadr or Ar Rijil?” That translates as: “The chest or the foot?”
The men then asked Mr. Hussein about three of the crimes of which he has been accused in his nearly 35 years in power:
Asked about the use of chemical weapons against the Kurds in the northern Iraqi town of Halabja in 1988, in which an estimated 5,000 people were killed, Mr. Hussein said this was the work of Iran, at war with Iraq at the time.
Asked about the mass graves of tens of thousands of Iraqis uncovered since Mr. Hussein was toppled from power in the American-led offensive this spring, Mr. Rubaie said that Mr. Hussein answered: “Ask their relatives. They were thieves and they ran away from the battlefields with Iran and from the battlefields of Kuwait.”
Asked why he invaded Kuwait in 1990, provoking the first American-led assault on Iraq the next year, he said that Kuwait was rightfully a part of Iraq.
“He was not remorseful at all,” Dr. Chalabi said. “It was clear he was a complete narcissist who was incapable of showing remorse or sympathy to other human beings.”
Dr. Chalabi said that Mr. Hussein also suggested that he had been behind the recent wave of attacks against American soldiers in Iraq since his defeat.
"He said, ‘I gave a speech and I said the Americans can come to Iraq but they can’t occupy it and rule it,’ " Dr. Chalabi said. "He said, ‘I said I would fight them with pistols and I have.’
“He didn’t say it directly but he was trying to take credit for it.”
At a news conference this evening, Mr. Pachachi said Mr. Hussein had tried to justify himself by saying that Iraqis needed a tough ruler.
“He tried to justify his crimes by saying that he was a just but firm ruler,” he said. “Of course, our answer was he was an unjust ruler responsible for the deaths of thousands of people.”
Throughout the meeting, Mr. Hussein was calm but often used foul language. Mr. Pachachi said he looked “tired and haggard.” Mr. Bremer and General Sanchez, they said, did not speak, though Dr. Chalabi said that Mr. Hussein was “deferential and respectful to the Americans.”
“You can conclude from that some aspect that he was reconciled to his situation,” he said.
“The most important fact: Had the roles been reversed, he would have torn us apart and cut us into small pieces after torture,” Dr. Chalabi said. “This contrast was paramount in my mind how we treated him and how he would have treated us.”
Mr. Rubaie said: "One thing which is very important is that this man had with him underground when they arrested him two AK-47’s and did not shoot one bullet. I told him, ‘You keep on saying that you are a brave man and a proud Arab.’ I said, ‘When they arrested you why didn’t you shoot one bullet? You are a coward.’
“And he started to use very colorful language. Basically, he used all his French.”
Mr. Rubaie added: "I was so angry because this guy has caused so much damage. He has ruined the whole country. He has ruined 25 million people.
“And I have to confess that the last word was for me: I was the last to leave the room and I said, ‘May God curse you. Tell me, when are you going to be accountable to God and the day of judgment? What are you going to tell Him about Halabja and the mass graves, the Iran-Iraq war, thousands and thousands executed? What are you going to tell God?’ He was exercising his French language.”
…And then Bremer said “If you’ve still got some bits of paper saying we propped you up for all those years before you went on holiday to Kuwait, let us know and we’ll start the shredder. Oh, and you still owe AT&T a lot of money for your telephone system in the 70’s. Also, please don’t tell anyone that we loved you once because the Iranians had bad dress sense”
Then Chalabi piped in “Where is Baghdad exactly? I need to sign a lease with my new landlord because Jordan won’t let me live there because I embezzled millions. Mr. Hussein, can you give me some pointers or at least let me know who your tailor is.”
Sanchez: “Nice beard”
Tariq Aziz: “You still owe me my salary for March”.
At the end of the day a good catch…now will someone please go after Osama now that Bush has satisfied his obsession. Bin Laden is the really big fish. Not Saddam.
Ah, using all his French! (pardon my French, that is…)
FUNNY POST! strange NEWS! HISTORY IS WEIRD, WIRED.
QUOTE: …"I told him, ‘You keep on saying that you are a brave man and a proud Arab.’ I said, ‘When they arrested you why didn’t you shoot one bullet? You are a coward.’
“And he started to use very colorful language. Basically, he used all his French.”
Quote: “basically, he used all his French”
Which is why Chirac didn’t want to go to war with Iraq; he was holding out for the moment when Iraq would join that so-called league of (rather pathetic) Francophone nations. French linguistic hegemony falls flat on its face again.
Maybe Osama speaks French too and is living in Paris?
Congratulations!
I don’t think there has been any suggestion so far that the authorities in Iraq want to kill or imprison Saddam without a trial.
The question is: Will Saddam post bail?
I agree Spack, from what I read it seems the Iraqi authorities are so far handling it very well, which is good because as Tigerman pointed out, how they handle this will be a good sign of the justice system they will aspire to for their new government (assuming it will be the Iraqi government’s job to handle the trial, etc.)
Hmmm…justice system in Iraq…isn’t Dr. Ahmad Chalabi a fugitive from justice in Jordan? What does that say about ‘the chosen ones’ picked to run Iraq? Chalabi, Halliburton…it’s just swapping one klepto for a bunch of new ones.
We always seem to hear only negative sentiment about the US from Iraqis. it’s nice to hear from the other side.
Does anyone else think that there is something wrong with this? idiotic? ridiculous? how about just shooting fireworks/firecrackers instead?
For those saying this is no big deal and that al Qaeda is more important, get a life.
That said, we do know where 400 plus al Qaeda are: Iran. Think of that the next time you demand that the US pursue more dialogue with nations blah blah blah. Also, 70 percent of al Qaeda’s top leadership is gone. With those in Iraq, it would be even higher and eventually Zawahiri and Osama will get caught and then, there will be problems because the US has not dealt with Pyongyang, Castro, etc.
Is this him?
I wonder if he does get a fair trial, which would seem unlikely, would all those in various world governments who supported and encouraged his activities over the years be held accountable as well?
If there is a fair defense, it could be an interesting one. With no evidentury ties to al Queda and no weapons of mass destruction – the very reasons given for attacking an independant nation – the legitamacy of how Saddam even got to this point, could be called into question. I mean no one attacked Liberia to get Charles Taylor, who is now being sought on crimes against humanity.
Chalabi is a dodgy character. This is an old story, but it illustrates the shady financial transactions and games of intreague that his clan has engaged in. guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0, … 23,00.html
I am glad the Al-Tikriti clan (Saddam Hussein’s family) will never be in power again. However, the US should make sure that Iraq’s future governance mechanisms are transparent and democratic. I for one, would not trust Chalabi for one minute and think his involvement in the future running of Iraq will only hurt democracy in Iraq. First of all, his involvement in the Petra Banking scandal highlight his financial shenanigans and questionable moral character. Secondly, his close ties to Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz show he is a quintessential Washington insider who prefers backroom negotiations to “Direct Democracy.” Will the Iraqis want a man who has not lived in Iraq since the fall of the Hashemite monarchy in 1958, a man who is involved in banking scandals, and who has close ties with the right-wing of the Republican party, to have a leading role in the rebuilding of Iraq. I hope not.
Now is the time to get international involvment and make this truly a MULTILATERAL venture. Allow bidding from Germany, France, Canada, and Russia. Make sure Saddam is tried fairly and not given the death penalty. As long as Bremer and Sanchez are calling the shots, as long as Chalabi sits on the Governing Council, and as long as Halliburton feeds the troops and is a major player in the rebuildings, locals will fight the Americans - with or without Saddam.
Chewy
Chewy:
No one has said that Germany, Russia, China and France cannot bid on projects. They are only being blocked for those paid for by US taxpayers and even then they can bid on subcontractor work.
Let France, Germany, China and Russia make the first step this time. The US has been begging them even prior to the war to get on board. They chose not to. The US did not exclude them. Judge them a bit more harshly for their actions.
Wolf,
While I disagree that the issues of WMD and ties to al Qaeda were not valid reasons for invading Iraq and ridding it of Saddam, those are not likely to be issues at trial. It appears that the Iraqis, not the world or the US, will try Saddam. The Iraqis are concerned not so much with Saddam’s ties to al Qaeda or other terrorists, or with his WMD. They are concerned with his iron-fisted brutally oppressive rule of Iraq for the past 3 plus decades. There is abundant evidence to convict Saddam of murder and genocide, and I think the Iraqis will reinstate capital punishment for Saddam.
But, you’re right… this will be interesting.
whilst i’m sure george jr. is already printing up another premature “mission accomplished” banner the size of texas as we speak, this is hardly an “end of the road” event… symbolically significant at best, and even as the squeals of delight begin to subside, the realization that that murderous old bastard, stuck in a six foot hole definitely wasn’t orchestrating any resistance is beginning to sink in… whilst the majority of those following this dirty little war will be gleefully lining up to pull the wool over their own eyes and declare this a great new era for liberty, justice and other long since diluted and adulterated cliché