# Salvation is by faith alone, but? **URL:** \ **Category:** Religion & Spirituality\ **Created:** [June 4, 2024, 3:53am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/salvation-is-by-faith-alone-but/240850 "2024-06-04T03:53:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![OysterOmelet](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/oysteromelet/32/219695_2.png) [@OysterOmelet](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/OysterOmelet)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2024, 4:42am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/salvation-is-by-faith-alone-but/240850/41 "2024-06-05T04:42:49Z")
> [@crusher](#): > > Your answer means both are right. You can’t be the son and God at the same time. Well only a clone can do that. > Jesus is God or Jesus is the son of God ? (But off topic) . There is more than one God. But it doesn’t matter; God’s not going to care. What’s important is that you do what Jesus commanded. ---
**Author:** ![OysterOmelet](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/oysteromelet/32/219695_2.png) [@OysterOmelet](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/OysterOmelet)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2024, 4:44am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/salvation-is-by-faith-alone-but/240850/42 "2024-06-05T04:44:21Z")
> [@MikeN1](#): > > You mean the one Martin Luther called “an epistle of straw”? Don’t listen to that SOB. He misread the Bible with his western individualist eyes. ---
**Author:** ![crusher](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/crusher/32/235005_2.png) [@crusher](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/crusher)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2024, 4:49am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/salvation-is-by-faith-alone-but/240850/43 "2024-06-05T04:49:04Z")
> [@MikeN1](#): > > You mean the one Martin Luther called “an epistle of straw”? Oh ok now I get why I was metaphorically lynched when I was quoting James. Well thanks for that info. I’ll admit I didn’t know he said that. ---
**Author:** ![crusher](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/crusher/32/235005_2.png) [@crusher](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/crusher)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2024, 4:49am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/salvation-is-by-faith-alone-but/240850/44 "2024-06-05T04:49:58Z")
> [@Taiwan\_Luthiers](#): > > I thought it was a settled question, Jesus is one of the trinity, the father (God), the word (Jesus), and his spirit (the holy spirit). > > As to why trinity, I believe this is one of the mystery of faith. That’s not settled among protestants I can assure you. I am one. ---
**Author:** ![MikeN1](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/e19adc/32.png) [@MikeN1](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/MikeN1)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2024, 5:07am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/salvation-is-by-faith-alone-but/240850/45 "2024-06-05T05:07:24Z")
> [@QuaSaShao](#): > > There are Catholics who believe that just going to church on Sunday is good enough and you can pretty much do anything you want the rest of the week and get away with it. Protestants as well, no? Jeffry Dahmer, the Milwaukee Cannibal, was convicted of killing and eating 17 victims (probably more). While serving 17 consecutive life sentences,he started reading the Bible and converted to Evangelical Protestantism under the influence of a pastor, who he told he was sincerely repentant, and received full-immersion baptism in a specially-built water tank. I don’t know if he was sincere or not- later he received a cushy job in the library- where he was murdered by another prisoner- but isn’t it Evangelical dogma that if you repent your sins and accept Jesus, as others have done, you will be saved? Adding that the people he murdered (and ate) were homosexuals, sometimes gay prostitutes, who he lured to his apartment and killed from behind, not giving them any time or opportunity to repent for their sins. According to Protestant theology- the “sole salvation [n Jesus’ name” believers, anyway- Jeffry is enjoying eternity with God, while the people he killed and ate are roasting in Hell forever and ever, amen. ---
**Author:** ![crusher](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/crusher/32/235005_2.png) [@crusher](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/crusher)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2024, 5:09am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/salvation-is-by-faith-alone-but/240850/46 "2024-06-05T05:09:58Z")
> [@MikeN1](#): > > > [@QuaSaShao](#): > > > > There are Catholics who believe that just going to church on Sunday is good enough and you can pretty much do anything you want the rest of the week and get away with it. > > Protestants as well, no? Jeffry Dahmer, the Milwaukee Cannibal, was convicted of killing and eating 17 victims (probably more). While serving 17 consecutive life sentences,he started reading the Bible and converted to Evangelical Protestantism under the influence of a pastor, who he told he was sincerely repentant, and received full-immersion baptism in a specially-built water tank. > I don’t know if he was sincere or not- later he received a cushy job in the library- where he was murdered by another prisoner- but isn’t it Evangelical dogma that if you repent your sins and accept Jesus, as others have done, you will be saved? > Adding that the people he murdered (and ate) were homosexuals, sometimes gay prostitutes, who he lured to his apartment and killed from behind, not giving them any time or opportunity to repent for their sins. According to Protestant theology- the “sole salvation [n Jesus’ name” believers, anyway- Jeffry is enjoying eternity with God, while the people he killed and ate are roasting in Hell forever and ever, amen. That seems to be what the scripture says , but ultimately only God decides. If he was lying about his repentence then God would know it. I doubt he was repentent so he’s probably frying. ---
**Author:** ![crusher](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/crusher/32/235005_2.png) [@crusher](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/crusher)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2024, 5:11am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/salvation-is-by-faith-alone-but/240850/47 "2024-06-05T05:11:02Z")
> [@Taiwan\_Luthiers](#): > > I thought it was a settled question, Jesus is one of the trinity, the father (God), the word (Jesus), and his spirit (the holy spirit). > > As to why trinity, I believe this is one of the mystery of faith. > **[One God & one Lord : reconsidering the cornerstone of the Christian faith...](https://archive.org/details/onegodonelordrec0000grae)** > > xi, 675 p. ; 24 cm ---
**Author:** ![MikeN1](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/e19adc/32.png) [@MikeN1](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/MikeN1)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2024, 5:20am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/salvation-is-by-faith-alone-but/240850/48 "2024-06-05T05:20:46Z")
> [@crusher](#): > > That’s not settled among protestants I can assure you. I am one. What?!? I think the doctrine of the Trinity is accepted among all (small o) orthodox Christians. ---
**Author:** ![crusher](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/crusher/32/235005_2.png) [@crusher](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/crusher)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2024, 6:11am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/salvation-is-by-faith-alone-but/240850/49 "2024-06-05T06:11:13Z")
> [@MikeN1](#): > > > [@crusher](#): > > > > That’s not settled among protestants I can assure you. I am one. > > What?!? I think the doctrine of the Trinity is accepted among all (small o) orthodox Christians. No not all. Lots of non trinitarians around. Maybe not strictly protestants but certainly Christians. They’ve grown a lot from small beginnings. They believe Jesus IS God not the son of God. Then some groups do not believe in the Holy spirit. ---
**Author:** ![Taiwan\_Luthiers](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Taiwan\_Luthiers](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Taiwan_Luthiers)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2024, 6:41am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/salvation-is-by-faith-alone-but/240850/50 "2024-06-05T06:41:12Z")
You mean like Mormons and Jehovah witness? ---
**Author:** ![marasan](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/marasan/32/181721_2.png) [@marasan](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/marasan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2024, 7:42am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/salvation-is-by-faith-alone-but/240850/51 "2024-06-05T07:42:45Z")
> [@crusher](#): > > Most American and Taiwanese Christian protestant denominations believe that one is saved by belief in Jesus alone. However in the bible is says clearly > > In Janes 2 > 24" You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone." I think James 2 makes it very difficult to say that the Bible teaches justification by faith alone (sola fide). When I read the verses (and by the way, you really need to read that whole section of James 2:14-26), I find myself trying very hard to convince myself that James is arguing here justification by faith alone. From Wikipedia, something along the lines of the following is what those that argue justification by faith alone will say: > Paul was dealing with one kind of error while James was dealing with a different error. The errorists Paul was dealing with were people who said that works of the law were needed to be added to faith in order to help earn God’s favor. Paul countered this error by pointing out that salvation was by faith alone apart from deeds of the law (Galatians 2:16; Romans 3:21–22). Paul also taught that saving faith is not dead but alive, showing thanks to God in deeds of love (Galatians 5:6 [‘…since in Christ Jesus it is not being circumcised or being uncircumcised that can effect anything – only faith working through love.’]). James was dealing with errorists who said that if they had faith they didn’t need to show love by a life of faith (James 2:14–17). James countered this error by teaching that faith is alive, showing itself to be so by deeds of love (James 2:18,26). James and Paul both teach that salvation is by faith alone and also that faith is never alone but shows itself to be alive by deeds of love that express a believer’s thanks to God for the free gift of salvation by faith in Jesus. > > — _Faith and Works_ , Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod Those that believe in justification by faith alone might argue that if your faith is true, then works will necessarily follow. That seems reasonable enough, but again, when I read James 2, I find it hard to accept that that is all James is saying. ---
**Author:** ![crusher](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/crusher/32/235005_2.png) [@crusher](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/crusher)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2024, 11:26am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/salvation-is-by-faith-alone-but/240850/52 "2024-06-05T11:26:05Z")
> [@Taiwan\_Luthiers](#): > > You mean like Mormons and Jehovah witness? Yes exactly. ---
**Author:** ![crusher](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/crusher/32/235005_2.png) [@crusher](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/crusher)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2024, 11:34am UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/salvation-is-by-faith-alone-but/240850/53 "2024-06-05T11:34:42Z")
> [@marasan](#): > > > [@crusher](#): > > > > Most American and Taiwanese Christian protestant denominations believe that one is saved by belief in Jesus alone. However in the bible is says clearly > > > > In Janes 2 > > 24" You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone." > > I think James 2 makes it very difficult to say that the Bible teaches justification by faith alone (sola fide). When I read the verses (and by the way, you really need to read that whole section of James 2:14-26), I find myself trying very hard to convince myself that James is arguing here justification by faith alone. > > From Wikipedia, something along the lines of the following is what those that argue justification by faith alone will say: > > > Paul was dealing with one kind of error while James was dealing with a different error. The errorists Paul was dealing with were people who said that works of the law were needed to be added to faith in order to help earn God’s favor. Paul countered this error by pointing out that salvation was by faith alone apart from deeds of the law (Galatians 2:16; Romans 3:21–22). Paul also taught that saving faith is not dead but alive, showing thanks to God in deeds of love (Galatians 5:6 [‘…since in Christ Jesus it is not being circumcised or being uncircumcised that can effect anything – only faith working through love.’]). James was dealing with errorists who said that if they had faith they didn’t need to show love by a life of faith (James 2:14–17). James countered this error by teaching that faith is alive, showing itself to be so by deeds of love (James 2:18,26). James and Paul both teach that salvation is by faith alone and also that faith is never alone but shows itself to be alive by deeds of love that express a believer’s thanks to God for the free gift of salvation by faith in Jesus. > > > > — _Faith and Works_ , Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod > > Those that believe in justification by faith alone might argue that if your faith is true, then works will necessarily follow. That seems reasonable enough, but again, when I read James 2, I find it hard to accept that that is all James is saying. Yes I’m with you on that. And we both know so many Christians that get baptised then just go to church on Easter and Christmas and could not care less about doing good works. One could argue that they were not really baptised , but I doubt that. I like James as it appeals to the practical side of me, actually doing good works. Whether those good works send me to heaven or not is irrelevant as they should be done anyway. Jesus for me is a role model that no man can match , but that’s no excuse for "Ive been baptised so don’t need to do good works as I’m sorted already. " Yes, no one can be sinless but that does not excuse inaction in helping others. The salvation army is an example of good works. Feeding the homeless , giving them blankets etc. Christian good works in action is a great thing as is non Christian good works. ---
**Author:** ![Taiwan\_Luthiers](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Taiwan\_Luthiers](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Taiwan_Luthiers)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2024, 12:39pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/salvation-is-by-faith-alone-but/240850/54 "2024-06-05T12:39:08Z")
Yea sorry but apart from their theology, their beliefs are just wacky. I don’t agree with the Catholic church position on everything, but their belief aren’t wacky either. ---
**Author:** ![BiggusDickus](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/biggusdickus/32/90381_2.png) [@BiggusDickus](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/BiggusDickus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2024, 12:52pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/salvation-is-by-faith-alone-but/240850/55 "2024-06-05T12:52:24Z")
> [@Taiwan\_Luthiers](#): > > Yea sorry but apart from their theology, their beliefs are just wacky. > > I don’t agree with the Catholic church position on everything, but their belief aren’t wacky either. I generally avoid getting involved in religious discussions, but I think we need some kind of agreed wacky benchmark here. ---
**Author:** ![Taiwan\_Luthiers](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Taiwan\_Luthiers](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Taiwan_Luthiers)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2024, 12:55pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/salvation-is-by-faith-alone-but/240850/56 "2024-06-05T12:55:20Z")
Mormons believe that those saved (according to the church) becomes a god and controls a planet of his own, and that god comes from a planet called kolab. Jw believes only 144,000 in the book of revelations will go to heaven, and have made several failed attempt at predicting what the end of days will be. There are many others. ---
**Author:** ![BiggusDickus](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/biggusdickus/32/90381_2.png) [@BiggusDickus](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/BiggusDickus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2024, 12:56pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/salvation-is-by-faith-alone-but/240850/57 "2024-06-05T12:56:33Z")
> [@Taiwan\_Luthiers](#): > > There are many others. Indeed. In every religion. ---
**Author:** ![QuaSaShao](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/quasashao/32/220200_2.png) [@QuaSaShao](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/QuaSaShao)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2024, 1:10pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/salvation-is-by-faith-alone-but/240850/58 "2024-06-05T13:10:11Z")
Now that I’m saved I’ve got my license: ![image](https://forumosauploads-12829.kxcdn.com/original/3X/6/6/666dd9c86d98234f3badab6b5361c4e13211c893.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![OysterOmelet](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/oysteromelet/32/219695_2.png) [@OysterOmelet](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/OysterOmelet)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2024, 1:18pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/salvation-is-by-faith-alone-but/240850/59 "2024-06-05T13:18:41Z")
> [@Taiwan\_Luthiers](#): > > Yea sorry but apart from their theology, their beliefs are just wacky. > > I don’t agree with the Catholic church position on everything, but their belief aren’t wacky either. We’re so used to virgin birth and the resurrection, they’re not wacky anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Andrew](https://forumosa-12829.kxcdn.com/user_avatar/tw.forumosa.com/andrew/32/179806_2.png) [@Andrew](https://tw.forumosa.com/u/Andrew)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2024, 1:33pm UTC](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/salvation-is-by-faith-alone-but/240850/60 "2024-06-05T13:33:37Z")
> [@Taiwan\_Luthiers](#): > > I don’t agree with the Catholic church position on everything, but their belief aren’t wacky either. Err, they’re pretty wacky. If someone made it up and started trying to indoctrinate people now instead of a couple of thousand years ago, it’d be a hard sell. [Previous page](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/salvation-is-by-faith-alone-but/240850.md?page=2) [Next page](https://tw.forumosa.com/t/salvation-is-by-faith-alone-but/240850.md?page=4)