SARS discussions - March 16 to May 22, 2003

CrankyLaowai: your wife prob just has the flu that has been going around for about 2 months now. I had it in February real bad. Still hitting friends. It is just normal flu bug. Don’t worry, but ask a doctor of course. I am sure you already have, and then tell us, please, your wife is okay, right?

Share your concerns. No, you were NOT freaking out, this is REAL.

Yes, seems the SARS bugs travel via air, mostly, so the elevator in that common apartment building in HK was responsible for 78 people there getting it. So avoid: elevators, buses, trains, subways, movie theaters, pubs, discos, libraries, anywhere where sick air can circuluate.

However, if nobody with SARS has passed through the above places, then we can’t get it. And the bug only lives outside the body for 3 hours. So the chances of getting this thing are one in a trillion. However, that one in a trillion has already KILLEd 300 people worldwide, and CHINA is not telling the entire truth yet. So beware the Ides of March, already passed, and the coming weeks of April.

Pivotal.

The director of the USA Centers for Disease Control and Prevention warned yesterday that a mysterious respiratory disease, which has infected hundreds of people worldwide, could be spread very efficiently through close contact and expressed DEEP concern that it might also be spread through the air or on contaminated objects.

Since then, dozens of other people from the same apartment complex have fallen ill with the disease. And health officials raised the possibility that for so many people to be infected, the virus MIGHT be capable of staying suspended in the air in fairly small droplets…

======
Asked about the risk of spread from brief encounters with an infected person in public places like elevators, Dr. Gerberding said: “We JUST don’t know.”

One of my pet peeves in Asia is how Asians always mash the lift’s close and open buttons. Whereas, in my experience, in North America, people are 1 second more patient and let the lift doors close automatically.

Am I the only one who is annoyed by close-button-mashing Asians? Maybe SARS will dissuade them from doing so in the future. Can’t be good for the buttons to be mashed so much!

[quote=“FormosaSmith”]One of my pet peeves in Asia is how Asians always mash the lift’s close and open buttons. Whereas, in my experience, in North America, people are 1 second more patient and let the lift doors close automatically.

Am I the only one who is annoyed by close-button-mashing Asians? Maybe SARS will dissuade them from doing so in the future. Can’t be good for the buttons to be mashed so much![/quote]

I do it all the time. What’s wrong with that?! :smiley: It’s part of my daily exercise. (Yeah, right)

If you’re comparing it to LA or Denver, then yeah, but compared to any other major city in the world, it’s about the same… Paris is just as bad – Italy is even more so. It’s especially bad in buildings that have an expresso stand in the lobby!

(I think I smashed the button in my building already once or twice!)

Lets all ease up and have a look at the actual level of fatalities versus those infected. THE VAST MAJORITY are surviving this. Granted, it does look freakily infectious. The number of health care workers that have been infected while treating patients is of particular concern. I’m presuming that these health care workers are employing standard “barrier” protection (ie, gloves, masks and quarantine)

As for masks, I once worked as a nurse in operating theatres where we were obliged to wear masks to prevent infection - to the patient. There are arguments too and for on this front but strangely never in relation to being infected.

The counter mask wearing argument went something like - masks provide an ideal area for the build up of bugs, ie, a warm humid area right in front of the mouth and nose where bugs that would be highly susceptible to the dry cool environment of an operating theatre could grow and multiply and ultimately literally “fall-out” onto whoever was under the knife.

As far as I’m concerned unless you’re wearing an industrial mask, a cotton strip in front of your cakehole will probably encourage what you’re trying to discourage.

On a lighter note:

Atypical Masks for Atypical Pneumonia
March 27, 2003

gweilodiaries.com/archives/000762.html

A mystery virus may be sweeping around the tiny ex-British colony of Hong Kong, causing a dozen deaths and hundreds of hospitalizations but, as Chuck Hiccough reports, it’s just another reason for the inhabitants of this label-mad city to go shopping. . . .

Hong Kong is in the grips of a mystery pneumonia bug, and the local populace has clearly become worried by the epidemic. Walking around the sidewalks and travelling on the subway in this frenetic city, one can now see a large proportion of the local populace wearing protective surgical masks to cover their faces. But some inhabitants of this city - which in the 1990s became internationally synonymous with conspicuous consumption, infamously outdoing even Manhattan and Beverly Hills in sheer showiness - have grasped the situation in their own hands and taken it as an excuse to go shopping.

War may have just broken out in Iraq, and a contagious pneumonia is on the loose, but Hong Kong people can’t seem to get enough of their beloved designer labels. On Saturday, Louis Vuitton in Hong Kong released a limited edition atypical pneumonia mask, specially for the Hong Kong market, in super-soft Connolly leather with a monogrammed sterling silver clasp. This luxurious and unfeasibly comfortable mask comes with a matching protective case to allow its users to store it away safely in their Kelly bags without contaminating their shatoosh shawls. At a retail price of HK$1,800 (approximately US$230), one would have expected these to be more of a publicity stunt than a serious retail proposition, but by Saturday lunchtime, all 88 limited edition masks had been sold.

Across town in the sprawling Gucci boutique, the company spokesperson said that they would be shortly releasing a designer mask as an addition to their summer 2003 accessories range. She declined to mention details, except to say that it would of course be in black and would incorporate the Gucci buckle. A Hong Kong tai-tai (the local equivalent of ladies-who-lunch) in the store at that time said that she was eagerly awaiting its release and had put herself down on the waiting list, adding “Everyone knows that black is the new Burberry”. Burberry, meanwhile, has not as yet brought out a mask and says that it has no immediate plans to do so, but fake Burberry masks can already be found across the border in the Chinese city of Shenzhen, where Hong Kong people and visiting tourists go for day trips to stock up on fake goods. For just RMB10 US$1.25), one can get a surgical mask with a Burberry check trim and some functional yet rather fetching beige elastic earloops. This correspondent bought a box of twenty, and was given a free “men’s hold-all”, which despite its uncanny resemblance to a toiletries bag appears to be hugely popular with the local menfolk.

All this consumerism may appear to be frivolous, especially in times such as these, but it does emphasize the breathtaking speed at which the fashion industry reacts to the latest news and trends. Mainstream and luxury goods retailers are increasingly capitalizing on current affairs in order to come up with killer fads. And where else to do this than in a city full of fashionistas: as a Hong Kong advertising executive put it, “When you have a cutting edge, never-seen-before virus, you’ve got to fight it with a cutting edge, never-seen-before mask. Designer masks for designer viruses”.

Back at Louis Vuitton, a tai-tai who had bought two of the limited edition masks - presumably one for herself and one for her husband - wandered back into the store yesterday to say how much she loved her new mask and how jealous the other members of her lunch group were. Before speaking she of course had to unclasp the Louis Vuitton Connolly leather mask that she was wearing… and then reached down to unclasp the second Louis Vuitton Connolly leather mask that her pet poodle Benzie was wearing.

Atypical masks for atypical pneumonia in an atypically unique city.

Here’s what gets my goat!

I have 2 students whose Parents have just come back from Thailand and China. They had only just returned and, instead of keeping on with other people bringing their kids to school, they just stroll on in to the school.
Now, I think that the least they could do is wear a mask. Surely they must understand they are at risk. If they don’t give a shit about their own health at least they should think about others. Hell, they don’t know if they are carrying anything or not.

Other student of mine has also just come back from China, but he has had the decency to stay away from class for a week, just to be on the safe side.

I just can’t believe that others could be so reckless with a disease that we know so little about and as yet can not treat effectively. I won’t be going near any of the kids in those classes and that’s for sure.

Here is on that I have heard no answer to

Can somebody be a carrier of the disease without having any symptoms and without the virus affecting them and therefore they could potentially infect other people

Isn’t it true that it can take from 7-10 days before the symptoms even show up?

This from yesterday’s lead in the Taipei Times

[quote] According to the CDC, 57 suspect SARS cases have been reported nationwide as of yesterday. Twelve were “probable cases” and 10 “suspect cases.” The CDC said 17 reported cases were not, in fact, SARS.

Sixteen of all the reported cases have recovered and been discharged from hospitals. The 16 cases included four probable cases,” said Chen.[/quote]
Can someone please help me with the math on this one?

ps. and what’s with that headline: “SARS outbreak in Taiwan appears to be under control” :shock: Now i’m really worried. i voted “not going out at all”

If you really want to put a poll up i think that you should include the option of ‘Taking No Precautions’ as this is probably what most people are doing (myself included)

Potato, no it doesn’t seem to be stopping. HK announced yesterday that they were quarantining a housing block because they found 220 cases. This morning they found a further 88 cases. More scary is the fact that most of the flats in the block were empty as people had fled because of the disease.

Boss Hogg, i believe that the incubation period is 4-12 days.

As HCG mentioned, nearly all of the patients fully recover and so we should keep things in perspective. The real danger is the speed with which it is spreading and the logistical problems that this might cause.

How can i have ‘Posts: 305’ twice?

Do they ask these people some basic questions to find out the exposure like

  1. So do you use the MRT?
  2. Where have you been and in contact with?
    blah blah

Mark0938…
Unfortunatelty its that type of “taking No Precautions” thinking that has propagated the spread of AIDs and other such diseases

SARS is a virus… it can be beaten if people stop spreading it around

My friends went to the HK Sevens. One of them is a teacher. Got to say that was pretty stupid of him.

Its like anything else… if they want to expose themself fine… but they risk bringing it back and exposing other people
One of the guys has been banned from our office for 10 days after his trip to the HK sevens

and supposedly some big Multi National here has said post-HK sevens, that if they had known before hand that their employees (foreigners) were going to HK to watch rugby… they would have given them an ultamantiim
“If you go to HK on the weekend don’t come in on Monday” aka “you’re fired”

TNT, as i said if you’re going to have a poll it’s important that we know how many people are actually taking precautions rather than just the precautions taken.

Totally agree with what you said about the HK Sevens but i think that the organisers should really take the blame rather than the attendees. I think that the shocking decision to go ahead with the tournament will come back to haunt the organisers in the near future.

As a father and a teacher I am appauled at people who have been in exposed areas and still come into contact with me. If I pass it on to my wife and son without my knowledge the person who spread it to me better hope that everything is ok or that the virus takes them out. If anything happens to my family you can be damn sure I’ll be hunting down the suspects.

Expose yourself to the virus - ok - go die, you knew the risk. Take chances with me and the virus is not the only thing you’d need to worry about.

One of my friends came back from HK and called me after 2 days back in Taiwan. He had the nerve to suggest coming over to my house. I told him that I didn’t want to see him for at least 10 days and he told me “I feel ok, everything is ok”. That’s great - “see you in 10 days” I said.

Careless and stupid

several people have mentioned hand washing as a precaution. To do it properly you must use soap and lather for at least 15 seconds (i sing the ABC song when i’m teaching my daughter). and you need to wash inbetween the fingers and up to the wrists.

you know, i have been to several hospitals and have been surprised that so many of them do not provide toilet paper or soap in the bathrooms. bad for business?

I really have problem to believe that the SARS is as serious as media and some of the posters here portrait it.
It seems like it started in Guandong, China, in November, and now it is only confirmed 1600 cases, whereof 57 people have died. Think how many million people have been in direct or indirect contact with people from this area, and only so few has been confirmed infected. This tells me that it can’t be very contagious, and probably not as lethal as the hype want us to believe.

Me and my family has not changed our way of life, but then we have established some good hand-washing routines after the Enterovirus outbreak here in Taiwan that killed 80 children a couple of years ago. I think the Enterovirus stuff was much more contagiouos and dangerous than the SARS will be.

I was planning to go to a customer’s conference in HK end of last week, but they cancelled it (I did not plan to cancel).

So, no change, no special precautions.

[quote=“X3M”]I really have problem to believe that the SARS is as serious as media and some of the posters here portrait it…
So, no change, no special precautions.[/quote]

And these are exactly the kind of people that I was talking about.

May I see your medical diploma?

This is how the nasty buggy things get around.

Just remember that the Dr. that discovered the thing has now died.
Hello, the Dr., and he was part of the WHO task force.
It’s like playing Russian roulette with a gun to your own head and another at someone elses head.

In Taipei are you? I’ll make a point to keep my distance.

I just came back from a trip to singapore and hong kong and can tell you that it is being taken very seriously there. The schools have been closed for a week in singapore and perhaps are closed by now in Hong Kong. The spread of the disease in Hong Kong is accelerating and is definitely not under control, as indicated in reports yesterday. All the staff on the planes are wearing masks and most of the passengers as the air con recycles the air in the plane (one or two Cathay Pacific stewardesses have contracted it so far). Travelling through these areas was a bad experience.

I am going to work now but if I start to develop a cough etc. I will stay at home. Hopefully the disease is not transmittable when you have not developed symptoms yet.

Therefore I would advise you to take this seriously and stock up on masks because in a few days there may not be any left in Taiwan (In HK and Singapore they are very hard to find). You should look for a charcoal filter mask and perhaps wear two layers.

It looks like people contact the disease through elevators and door handles etc. I heard of one case where a group which rented a private room for dinner in Hong Kong were ALL infected by a single woman with a fever who subsequently died. An american businessman infected 40 staff in one hospital in vietnam. Some people seems to have the capacity to spread it more than others. If you are a teacher you should also take this seriously and definitely send the children home from school if they have a high temperature (even though the parents will resist). If this virus gets into kindergartens in Taiwan it will spread rapidly as the govt. is so slow in closing the schools here. Since the children travel from school to school during the day and mix I think the govt. is very irresponsible in not closing the schools.

As for people still going to the HK sevens that was truly a moronic thing to do and irresponsible for your friends and families as the schools were already closed at the time in HK? What were you thinking?

And here’s a conjecture for you, what happens if SARS makes it to Iraq and infects the US army and the civilian population when medical facilities are basically out of action?

Question.

On the airplanes I guess no one is eating or drinking too much, as to do so you would need to remove your mask. And what about the virus being on the food?

(note:" too much" - I didn’t say “at all”. If I were on an airplane now I would be controlling my usual habit of keeping a steady flow of food and drinks coming - after all it’s incl. in the ticket price. But now I think I would rather take a nap and borrow one of Wacko Jacko’s oxygen tanks.)