Scooter license without arc?

Life Cars & Motorcycles
#1

I moved to Taiwan a couple months ago and got my arc, got my license, and got a scooter. Now my GF moved here, and she needs a scooter to get to work reasonably, but she is waiting on her arc. Any way she can get a scooter license now?

Everyone is telling me she has to have an arc, but when I got my license last month, this happened:

I went to the dmv and handed them my arc. The lady behind the counter said there was some issue on the card (it wasn’t technically active until the next day? Or, there was some issue with my entry date? Not sure.)

So, she handed it back, took my passport, and did the entire process with my passport. Never so much as looked at my arc.

So, it seems like there may be a way?

#2

Since she doesn’t have her ARC yet, she should not work to begin with.

[quote=“TheMixer”] Everyone is telling me she has to have an arc, but when I got my license last month, this happened:

I went to the dmv and handed them my arc. The lady behind the counter said there was some issue on the card (it wasn’t technically active until the next day? Or, there was some issue with my entry date? Not sure.)

So, she handed it back, took my passport, and did the entire process with my passport. Never so much as looked at my arc.

So, it seems like there may be a way?[/quote]

To take the driving exam you need to be resident in Taiwan, hence you need an ARC.
If your GF has an international license (IDL) for a scooter >50cc she can use that for up to a month. Afterwards she will still need an ARC to receive an endorsement to extend the recognition of the IDL.

#3

Your GF should be able to get her ARC fairly quickly if she has a job lined up. The nice thing is that Taiwan licenses don’t expire for 5-6 years and I don’t think you have to have a current ARC to have a valid license but you do need an ARC to apply for a license. She will just have to make do until she gets her ARC. She also can’t legally buy a scooter either but you could put it in your name.

#4

[quote=“hsinhai78”]
If your GF has an international license (IDL) for a scooter >50cc she can use that for up to a month. [/quote]

Assuming you mean with a IDP for a car (not a motorcycle). I hear people say this fact a lot, but I can’t find any confirmation of it.

Usually I just get a response from people saying “it’s Taiwan, you’re a foreigner, do whatever you want no one cares”.

I’m kind of fed up with that response so I’m just getting my motorcycle license in the States and a new IDP so I don’t have to worry about it.

#5

I believe licenses are tied to the length of your ARC. So if your ARC expires in a year, so does your license. Make sure you renew your license on time (when you renew your ARC). If you let your license expire, you’ll need to take the test again.

#6

I believe licenses are tied to the length of your ARC. So if your ARC expires in a year, so does your license. Make sure you renew your license on time (when you renew your ARC). If you let your license expire, you’ll need to take the test again.[/quote]
Abacus is correct. In the past the license expiration date was tied to your ARC, but this is no longer the case.

#7

[quote=“travis-travels”][quote=“hsinhai78”]
If your GF has an international license (IDL) for a scooter >50cc she can use that for up to a month. [/quote]

Assuming you mean with a IDP for a car (not a motorcycle). I hear people say this fact a lot, but I can’t find any confirmation of it.

Usually I just get a response from people saying “it’s Taiwan, you’re a foreigner, do whatever you want no one cares”.

I’m kind of fed up with that response so I’m just getting my motorcycle license in the States and a new IDP so I don’t have to worry about it.[/quote]

Once police stop you and you cannot produce a valid licence it seems people do care. And that you can simply get out of it by speaking English (or better not speaking any Chinese) may have worked ten years ago. I would even go so far and say this is a tale of the last Century.

If you want more information, see here: tmvso.thb.gov.tw/English/index.a … rs_license

Your IDL will let you drive for whatever vehicle class the IDL is valid for. Exempt are large trucks. 30 days after your entry (not the first time you want to drive a vehicle!) you will need to get an endorsement at the DMV, bring a passport photo. There is no fee for this. Not having the endorsement means not having a valid licence.

In Taiwan a driving licence for a regular small vehicle (aka car) permits the holder to ride a motorcycle/scooter of less than 50cc.
I know Wikipedia is not a good source, but here is a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_license_in_Taiwan
If you ask at the DMV they will tell you the same.

#8

I believe licenses are tied to the length of your ARC. So if your ARC expires in a year, so does your license. Make sure you renew your license on time (when you renew your ARC). If you let your license expire, you’ll need to take the test again.[/quote]

In addition to DL’s no longer being tied to your ARC (except you need an ARC initially) it’s not true that you need to take the test again if it expires. Perhaps if you let it expire for a long period of time but mine was expired 2 years ago and they just stamped it with some new dates.

#9

My IDP says it is good for a year, and there is no mention of getting any stupid endorsements at the DMV.

I think it is a spurious regulation that you need to endorse it as it is not mentioned on the IDP at all, and there is no special star with restrictions showing for Taiwan on the IDP itself.

And I have been stopped by cops before and have never been asked for my license. But again YMMV.

#10

[quote=“dan2006”]My IDP says it is good for a year, and there is no mention of getting any stupid endorsements at the DMV.

I think it is a spurious regulation that you need to endorse it as it is not mentioned on the IDP at all, and there is no special star with restrictions showing for Taiwan on the IDP itself.

And I have been stopped by cops before and have never been asked for my license. But again YMMV.[/quote]

What your IDP says is quite irrelevant to the domestic law of the ROC as only the law of the country where you want to drive matters and not the law of IDP issuing country. In the eyes of the government in Taiwan your IDP is no longer valid after 30 days since your last entry unless you have received an endorsement from the DMV. The endorsement is nothing more than a piece of paper that contains your personal information in Chinese and the seal of the Ministry of Transportation and Communications that will be affixed to your IDP. You can get it at the 2nd floor of the Shilin DMV.

If police did not ask for your licence you were lucky, next time they stop you be prepared for the possibility of being fined 6,000 NT$.

http://tpcmv.thb.gov.tw/ecp.aspx?pageID=563

http://tpcmv.thb.gov.tw/ecp.aspx?pageID=560

#11

[quote=“hsinhai78”][quote=“dan2006”]My IDP says it is good for a year, and there is no mention of getting any stupid endorsements at the DMV.

I think it is a spurious regulation that you need to endorse it as it is not mentioned on the IDP at all, and there is no special star with restrictions showing for Taiwan on the IDP itself.

And I have been stopped by cops before and have never been asked for my license. But again YMMV.[/quote]

What your IDP says is quite irrelevant to the domestic law of the ROC as only the law of the country where you want to drive matters and not the law of IDP issuing country. In the eyes of the government in Taiwan your IDP is no longer valid after 30 days since your last entry unless you have received an endorsement from the DMV. The endorsement is nothing more than a piece of paper that contains your personal information in Chinese and the seal of the Ministry of Transportation and Communications that will be affixed to your IDP. You can get it at the 2nd floor of the Shilin DMV.

If police did not ask for your licence you were lucky, next time they stop you be prepared for the possibility of being fined 6,000 NT$.

http://tpcmv.thb.gov.tw/ecp.aspx?pageID=563

http://tpcmv.thb.gov.tw/ecp.aspx?pageID=560[/quote]

I had forgot that I was asked once for a red light violation, I explained to the cop in Chinese that it is an international license, he said “zhi dao le” and nothing else was asked. I doubt they have time to get you to come by the station and prove that you are past your 30 days, unless the person is being especially mouthy to the cop which is never a good idea (which again is a law that is not in agreement with the spirit of the IDP IMHO)

Anyway if the OP wants to be sure, go down and get that stamp in the IDP, why not.

#12

[quote=“dan2006”][quote=“hsinhai78”][quote=“dan2006”]My IDP says it is good for a year, and there is no mention of getting any stupid endorsements at the DMV.

I think it is a spurious regulation that you need to endorse it as it is not mentioned on the IDP at all, and there is no special star with restrictions showing for Taiwan on the IDP itself.

And I have been stopped by cops before and have never been asked for my license. But again YMMV.[/quote]

What your IDP says is quite irrelevant to the domestic law of the ROC as only the law of the country where you want to drive matters and not the law of IDP issuing country. In the eyes of the government in Taiwan your IDP is no longer valid after 30 days since your last entry unless you have received an endorsement from the DMV. The endorsement is nothing more than a piece of paper that contains your personal information in Chinese and the seal of the Ministry of Transportation and Communications that will be affixed to your IDP. You can get it at the 2nd floor of the Shilin DMV.

If police did not ask for your licence you were lucky, next time they stop you be prepared for the possibility of being fined 6,000 NT$.

http://tpcmv.thb.gov.tw/ecp.aspx?pageID=563

http://tpcmv.thb.gov.tw/ecp.aspx?pageID=560[/quote]

I was asked once for a red light violation, I explained to the cop in Chinese that it is an international license, he said “zhi dao le” and nothing else was asked. I doubt they have time to get you to come by the station and prove that you are past your 30 days, unless the person is being especially mouthy (which again is a law that is not in agreement with the spirit of the IDP IMHO)

Anyway if the OP wants to be sure, go down and get that stamp in the IDP, why not.[/quote]

The ROC recognises International Driving Permits under the 1968 Convention on International Road Traffic.

Article 7, paragraph a) of the convention states the following:

http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/conventn/crt1968e.pdf

Unregistered long-term drivers are difficult to manage for the DMV. The DMV routinely refuses the endorsement to drivers with unpaid traffic fines like it does with holders of ROC driving licenses. Otherwise foreigners would simply switch from one IDP to another and never pay up.

#13

[quote=“hsinhai78”][quote=“dan2006”][quote=“hsinhai78”][quote=“dan2006”]My IDP says it is good for a year, and there is no mention of getting any stupid endorsements at the DMV.

I think it is a spurious regulation that you need to endorse it as it is not mentioned on the IDP at all, and there is no special star with restrictions showing for Taiwan on the IDP itself.

And I have been stopped by cops before and have never been asked for my license. But again YMMV.[/quote]

What your IDP says is quite irrelevant to the domestic law of the ROC as only the law of the country where you want to drive matters and not the law of IDP issuing country. In the eyes of the government in Taiwan your IDP is no longer valid after 30 days since your last entry unless you have received an endorsement from the DMV. The endorsement is nothing more than a piece of paper that contains your personal information in Chinese and the seal of the Ministry of Transportation and Communications that will be affixed to your IDP. You can get it at the 2nd floor of the Shilin DMV.

If police did not ask for your licence you were lucky, next time they stop you be prepared for the possibility of being fined 6,000 NT$.

http://tpcmv.thb.gov.tw/ecp.aspx?pageID=563

http://tpcmv.thb.gov.tw/ecp.aspx?pageID=560[/quote]

I was asked once for a red light violation, I explained to the cop in Chinese that it is an international license, he said “zhi dao le” and nothing else was asked. I doubt they have time to get you to come by the station and prove that you are past your 30 days, unless the person is being especially mouthy (which again is a law that is not in agreement with the spirit of the IDP IMHO)

Anyway if the OP wants to be sure, go down and get that stamp in the IDP, why not.[/quote]

The ROC recognises International Driving Permits under the 1968 Convention on International Road Traffic.

Article 7, paragraph a) of the convention states the following:

http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/conventn/crt1968e.pdf

Unregistered long-term drivers are difficult to manage for the DMV. The DMV routinely refuses the endorsement to drivers with unpaid traffic fines like it does with holders of ROC driving licenses. Otherwise foreigners would simply switch from one IDP to another and never pay up.[/quote]

I was under the impression that fines were written to the scooter owner (via the plate) and not the driver. Is this not the case now?
Because in that case, the bike could have tons of fines from a certain driver, but the driver himself would be clean, therefore could renew the licence.

#14

[quote=“dan2006”][quote=“hsinhai78”][quote=“dan2006”][quote=“hsinhai78”][quote=“dan2006”]My IDP says it is good for a year, and there is no mention of getting any stupid endorsements at the DMV.

I think it is a spurious regulation that you need to endorse it as it is not mentioned on the IDP at all, and there is no special star with restrictions showing for Taiwan on the IDP itself.

And I have been stopped by cops before and have never been asked for my license. But again YMMV.[/quote]

What your IDP says is quite irrelevant to the domestic law of the ROC as only the law of the country where you want to drive matters and not the law of IDP issuing country. In the eyes of the government in Taiwan your IDP is no longer valid after 30 days since your last entry unless you have received an endorsement from the DMV. The endorsement is nothing more than a piece of paper that contains your personal information in Chinese and the seal of the Ministry of Transportation and Communications that will be affixed to your IDP. You can get it at the 2nd floor of the Shilin DMV.

If police did not ask for your licence you were lucky, next time they stop you be prepared for the possibility of being fined 6,000 NT$.

http://tpcmv.thb.gov.tw/ecp.aspx?pageID=563

http://tpcmv.thb.gov.tw/ecp.aspx?pageID=560[/quote]

I was asked once for a red light violation, I explained to the cop in Chinese that it is an international license, he said “zhi dao le” and nothing else was asked. I doubt they have time to get you to come by the station and prove that you are past your 30 days, unless the person is being especially mouthy (which again is a law that is not in agreement with the spirit of the IDP IMHO)

Anyway if the OP wants to be sure, go down and get that stamp in the IDP, why not.[/quote]

The ROC recognises International Driving Permits under the 1968 Convention on International Road Traffic.

Article 7, paragraph a) of the convention states the following:

http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/conventn/crt1968e.pdf

Unregistered long-term drivers are difficult to manage for the DMV. The DMV routinely refuses the endorsement to drivers with unpaid traffic fines like it does with holders of ROC driving licenses. Otherwise foreigners would simply switch from one IDP to another and never pay up.[/quote]

I was under the impression that fines were written to the scooter owner (via the plate) and not the driver. Is this not the case now?
Because in that case, the bike could have tons of fines from a certain driver, but the driver himself would be clean, therefore could renew the licence.[/quote]

You are correct when it comes to speeding or parking tickets, these are the obligation of the registered owner unless he can name the actual driver.
Fines you receive from police officers on handwritten red tickets are linked to your passport/ARC number and not an obligation of the registered owner.

#15

The reason to be concerned about the technicalities of an IDL is not because you ‘MIGHT’ get a 6000NT fine. It’s pretty unlikely that a cop will give you a fine even if they are getting tougher about the laws. The reason to be concerned is that if you get in an accident and everything isn’t perfectly legal then you could find yourself getting sued for 1M NT or more depending on the injuries to the other party. It definitely will not help your case if you are not perfectly legal.

#16

There is no per se presumption of fault because you were not properly licenses. If you have evidence, i.e. a dash cam or public CCTV, that the other party was at fault you will still need to pay up the 6,000 NT$, yet the lack of a valid license will not suddenly reverse fault. In fact you can just as well sue the other party for compensation. Just do not make the mistake of signing anything except the accident sketch - do not put your signature on the line but only next to the sketch.

#17

There is no per se presumption of fault because you were not properly licenses. If you have evidence, i.e. a dash cam or public CCTV, that the other party was at fault you will still need to pay up the 6,000 NT$, yet the lack of a valid license will not suddenly reverse fault. In fact you can just as well sue the other party for compensation. Just do not make the mistake of signing anything except the accident sketch - do not put your signature on the line but only next to the sketch.[/quote]

Of course it won’t reverse fault but it’s just one more thing that the other party can use against you if you were not 100% perfectly legal in your maneuvers.

#18

There is no per se presumption of fault because you were not properly licenses. If you have evidence, i.e. a dash cam or public CCTV, that the other party was at fault you will still need to pay up the 6,000 NT$, yet the lack of a valid license will not suddenly reverse fault. In fact you can just as well sue the other party for compensation. Just do not make the mistake of signing anything except the accident sketch - do not put your signature on the line but only next to the sketch.[/quote]

Of course it won’t reverse fault but it’s just one more thing that the other party can use against you if you were not 100% perfectly legal in your maneuvers.[/quote]

The worst that can happen is you need to pay 6,000 NT$ for not having a license. There are no implications on the civil law side of an accident hence the compensation does not increase. Neither does an illegal turn get more illegal because you were not licensed.

It’s amateur FOB websites like this http://www.englishintaiwan.com/expat-life/living-in-taiwan/getting-a-local-taiwanese-drivers-license that still spread this old myth.

#19

There is no per se presumption of fault because you were not properly licenses. If you have evidence, i.e. a dash cam or public CCTV, that the other party was at fault you will still need to pay up the 6,000 NT$, yet the lack of a valid license will not suddenly reverse fault. In fact you can just as well sue the other party for compensation. Just do not make the mistake of signing anything except the accident sketch - do not put your signature on the line but only next to the sketch.[/quote]

Of course it won’t reverse fault but it’s just one more thing that the other party can use against you if you were not 100% perfectly legal in your maneuvers.[/quote]

The worst that can happen is you need to pay 6,000 NT$ for not having a license. There are no implications on the civil law side of an accident hence the compensation does not increase. Neither does an illegal turn get more illegal because you were not licensed.

It’s amateur FOB websites like this http://www.englishintaiwan.com/expat-life/living-in-taiwan/getting-a-local-taiwanese-drivers-license that still spread this old myth.[/quote]

From your link

This is not at all what I am saying and it is foolish to think this.

If you have a civil case against you because you were fractionally wrong then the other party has more ammo against you if you weren’t legally licensed in the first place. It would be silly to think that they wouldn’t use this against you.

#20

There is no per se presumption of fault because you were not properly licenses. If you have evidence, i.e. a dash cam or public CCTV, that the other party was at fault you will still need to pay up the 6,000 NT$, yet the lack of a valid license will not suddenly reverse fault. In fact you can just as well sue the other party for compensation. Just do not make the mistake of signing anything except the accident sketch - do not put your signature on the line but only next to the sketch.[/quote]

Of course it won’t reverse fault but it’s just one more thing that the other party can use against you if you were not 100% perfectly legal in your maneuvers.[/quote]

The worst that can happen is you need to pay 6,000 NT$ for not having a license. There are no implications on the civil law side of an accident hence the compensation does not increase. Neither does an illegal turn get more illegal because you were not licensed.

It’s amateur FOB websites like this http://www.englishintaiwan.com/expat-life/living-in-taiwan/getting-a-local-taiwanese-drivers-license that still spread this old myth.[/quote]

From your link

This is not at all what I am saying and it is foolish to think this.

If you have a civil case against you because you were fractionally wrong then the other party has more ammo against you if you weren’t legally licensed in the first place. It would be silly to think that they wouldn’t use this against you.[/quote]

I provided the link as an example of a website spreading that incorrect rumour.

The reason for a civil procedure in Taiwan is not punishment (as in the US, ref. punitive damages) but purely the compensation for damages sustained from the wrongful behaviour of another driver.

What matters is entirely whether you or the other party broke the rules or not. Whether you had a license or not is entirely irrelevant to this. The fact that you did not have a license does not constitute recklessness or negligence either. In a civil procedure you win absolutely nothing if the other person was not licensed, likewise your lack of a license does not give the other party any ammo as you put it.

The worst that can happen when it comes to driving without a license is an administrative fine of 6,000 NT$ and that’s it.

Why people who act naively around the police should be careful is because the opposing party or a police officer with a bias might coerce them into signing an admission of guilt citing their lack of a license. Don’t let anyone coerce you into signing something. This also applies to the Foreign Affairs Police. You might think you make it easier for the nice officers, but that may not be in your interest. Only sign a document at the scene of an accident or at the police station if you are fully aware of its contents. Unless you were drunk or intentionally injured people you will not face any consequences that could endanger your immigration status.