I don’t invoke Bob Marley as a political statement. I have his quote there only because I like his music. Don’t read too much into things.
Nice overview. Thanks. I have a CD by the Betel Nut Brothers and the cover is of them in a rustic-looking space surrounded by sculptures, etc. That’s not the DuLan place is it? Looks very cool indeed.
I presume your rant about reporting all foreigners on TV, etc. was tongue in cheek, though – after all, many of them, including you, me, and everyone else with a spousal or permanent resident visa, have every right to be there.
Whatever else this story illustrates, it definitely behooves anyone who finds themselves in the public eye to FIND OUT WHAT THE REGULATIONS ARE, and this doesn’t just mean asking that nice Mr. Huang who stamps your ARC extension every year, either, or thinking that “Juba did it and HE got a necktie from the president.” If Edsell had seen the CLA directive on volunteer activity by foreigners posted here, he would probably have been far less likely to remain so “high profile.”
[quote=“sandman”]Nice overview. Thanks. I have a CD by the Betel Nut Brothers and the cover is of them in a rustic-looking space surrounded by sculptures, etc. That’s not the DuLan place is it? Looks very cool indeed.
I presume your rant about reporting all foreigners on TV, etc. was tongue in cheek, though – after all, many of them, including you, me, and everyone else with a spousal or permanent resident visa, have every right to be there.[/quote]
Well, yeah, though the point is largely to force some type of confrontation on the part of the local authorities about the whole issue…
Interesting that you should mention the Betel Brothers who performed but three weeks ago at the Sugar Factory…it was a great night filled with all that is good about what Scott achieved. You might be interested to know that a mutual friend of Scott’s and myself is primarily responsible for bringing the Betel Nut Brothers to a wider audience. Our friend put out a CD which included them along with Papua New Guinea indigenous people aptly named, “Betel Nuts,” perhaps it’s the CD you have. All proceeds from the recording have been provided to all the participants in the recording. But, here again, our friend, a double PHD from Juliard could have been deported for his efforts at the time. And so it goes, but the beat DOES still go on…
- Oldhand
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That would be the Dutch (?) double bass player, right? My friend did the liner note translations for that one and we had it playing at our wedding 7 years ago.
The CD I was referring to though is more recent and is called Hunters Who Lost Their Land. They came to see us play up in Taipei a few months back when they were doing a workshop and we had a blast.
oldhand, that was a very informative post…and although I am sure Scott was making a positive contribution to the local community, you and others have pointed out it was basically ‘illegal’ (or at the very least a gray area that should be avoided, IMHO) according to the current regulations…
“No, it would have had to be someone familiar with this regulation and, as such, it would have to be someone aware of foreign visa issues and thus, likely someone who had experience with foreigners themselves.”
“The main point here is that the police were, in fact, doing their duty in investigating this complaint and can not be faulted for responding to a complaint though the extent to which they went, several months of deep undercover work, seems comical given the relative trivial nature of the so-called illegal activity of one foreigner.” To me this makes it appear as if Scott was employed in violation of the regulations
“what’s happening in Taiwan about the victimization of foreigners who engage in such activities” what victimization? being deported for breaking the law is not considered victimization in most countries…even the U.S. does it
“If the FOREIGN AFFAIRS POLICE are so bent on pursuing such arbitrary actions then why not flood them with such cases to the extent that no foreigner engages in either voluntary or cultural exchange activities.”
This statement (combined with other points not listed here but in your orginal post) begs me to ask…why are foreigners engaging in activities that are infractions of the law?
Maybe I am too naive, but I don’t think the FAP would have investigated (or had anything to investigate) if Scott had only shown up once or twice.
I stayed at the Sugar Factory in Dulan a few weeks ago when cycling on the East Coast. Spartan, but a great deal at NT$500/night. We were too late for any performances though.
Old hand’s account seems very plausible. The ‘report-the-foreigner’ trick is now quite well known to business people all over the island I’m afraid.
One important point is that the lack of any judicial review means that even foreigners with JFRVs or PARCs could be deported even if they are entirely legal. Now I doubt that would happen, but who knows.
The deportation without review is really something the whole foreign community should come together on.
I suppose one reason the government will be reluctant to do this is that it would mean that they couldn’t summarily deport migrant workers.
be careful, Feiren …“The deportation without review is really something the whole foreign community should come together on” sounds like it could lead to political activity…something we could get deported for… 
Defending Taiwan and it’s people from outright annihilation is not an obligation but a courtesy extended to Taiwan by the United States of America. I have personally put myself in harms way to defend this island and it’s people from untold horrors. Is respect for my most basic human rights too much of a courtesy to extend to me or my fellow Americans in Taiwan?
personally i think it’s time to put our money where our mouths are and organise a wee protest (wearing masks if necessary)…i know it sounds a bit like being fed to the lions but media attention seems to be required on this issue and i can think of no better way than 100 odd foreigners outside the FAP on WanHua Rd…afterall they couldn’t deport 100 people at once could they? or am i being outrageously reckless on this?
equal treatment for all under the law.
You’re evidently not an American. Equal treatment under the law disappeared along with Homeland Security. Taiwan is just ahead of the times.
I’d like to know the legality of this issue. Does anyone have a more positive outlook?
It’s tragic to think I can’t even go to an open mike night, let alone play music at a club. My dreams of playing live music are being dashed. My opinion of Taiwan has hit an all time low.
Government don’t allow no guitar playing 'round here,
Government don’t allow no guitar playing 'round here,
I don’t care what the government don’t allow,
I’m going to play my guitar anyhow
Government don’t allow no guitar playing 'round here.
you said a mouthful there; writ of habeas corpus anyone?
btw i wouldnt worry about open mike night; technically illegal but would never be prosecuted for that (well unless of course some local got the hump with citizen cain gulp)
If open mike could get you busted, almost every foreigner in Taipei would be in jail or deported; am I violating my visa if I organize a football match?
Take a look here
briandavidphillips.typepad.com/b … gulag.html
where an American argues that just because there’s a law, the arrest and deportation of British journalists under the Homeland Security Act is justified.
you remember your american history/civics well. yes, in times of emergency the president can declare a state of emergency. when such happens he is given greater powers. such is why lincoln was able to suspend habeas corpus. on sept. 13 bush declared a state of emergency.
yes, it is scary because during such times no one (even legal experts) are sure whatt he laws are: an area ripe for manipulation by an unscrupulous administration.
Most of the people I work with come from the USA. They’re worse than the Koreans for this xenophobic “only we are fit to judge our own actions” attitude. Even the liberal ones who vote Democrate and oppose GW don’t seem to think that anyone else can understand them properly. I’ve had Americans tell me that what’s going on now is clear evidence of a conspiracy of the powerful because ordinary Americans are such good people, they would never allow such things to happen if they knew about them.
EOD…what you voluntarily do is your choice…those who you decide to help are not required to show gratitude…sad but true all over the world.
the bear…“writ of habeas corpus” is good but if you will pay attention to U.S. news these days you will see that homeland security has a lot of freedom. Many people have been falsely detained only later to be freed after the government failed to make a case (with no recourse except to sue after the fact).
Amazingly, I find myself agreeing with EOD for once. I don’t think he’s claiming that just because he was a soldier here once that he is not bound by local laws. The government of Taiwan does claim to uphold the same or similar principles to most Western democracies. If the description of what happened to Scott is correct, his basic rights have clearly been violated.
tinman, EOD said “Defending Taiwan and it’s people from outright annihilation is not an obligation but a courtesy extended to Taiwan by the United States of America. I have personally put myself in harms way to defend this island and it’s people from untold horrors. Is respect for my most basic human rights too much of a courtesy to extend to me or my fellow Americans in Taiwan?”
To which I responded…“EOD…what you voluntarily do is your choice…those who you decide to help are not required to show gratitude…sad but true all over the world.”
And you posted this…“Amazingly, I find myself agreeing with EOD for once. I don’t think he’s claiming that just because he was a soldier here once that he is not bound by local laws. The government of Taiwan does claim to uphold the same or similar principles to most Western democracies. If the description of what happened to Scott is correct, his basic rights have clearly been violated.”
Well first EOD said he was looking for respect for the ‘most basic human rights’ as ‘gratitude’ for what he (and others) has done for Taiwan…I simply pointed out that although that might be nice but people (or countries) are not required to give gratitude. As to the issue of Scott, what basic right was clearly violated? To live and work in a foreign country is not a right…as I said it is a priviledge…due process is a right but then again due process in Taiwan is not the same as it is in the U.S. nor is it the same as it is in England. I don’t think any two countries have the EXACT same definition of ‘due process.’ Yes, Scott’s case is upsetting but I don’t think his basic human rights have been violated…was he tortured, beating, deprived of sleep, falsely imprisoned? No.