The gag being that the forward gear is incase they get attacked from behind…
So I take it from this thread that most westerners think pretty lowly of South Koreans? Or just that Americans think so? Hm interesting. Can someone please elaborate as to why (other than the recent tank killing girls mishap)?
I know that Taiwanese people were pissed when South Korea switched recognition to China in the early 90s. Even though that was expected, SK did all the negotiations in secret and behind our backs…they didn’t even have a ceremony to lower their embassy flag…they just took off. Very shady and dishonorable especially considering the fact that Taiwan and SK were supposed to be close allies.
Not to genaralize, but all Koreans are pig-headed, xenophobic, stubborn, hard-drinking, brawling troublemakers 
Some people refer to them as the Irish of Asia :shock:
Hey hey! Not all Irishmen are xenophobic.
[quote=“daltongang”]4. our interest in the country is barely limited to saving them from themselves
[quote]Cannot agree. US interests in the region are served by having troops stationed at the most dangerous flashpoint. These interests - Japan, China, Taiwan, South Korea… have been explained in this thread.
[/quote]
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Not so clear to me. 37,000 troops in Korea. What is their function? They are a tripwire. The tell the North Koreans that if they invade South Korea, Americans will die and America will be involved. Who benefits from this? South Korea. Do they affect China? Are they relevant to Taiwan? How do they affect Japan? If their political function is so important, can they simply be moved at will? If they are so important should we be placing all our marbles in the increasingly fickle Korean bag? I think their relevance outside of the Korean peninsula is limited. They do very little to stop China from anything. What will help Taiwan if needed will be air and naval forces and highly mobile well-armed land forces–marines. I don’t see the connection to Japan, in fact in an editorial in the Japan Times yesterday the case was made that they are irrelevant.
Now what they are doing they do well, and if you feel that the world needs a South Korea as it currently exists, then they serve a useful purpose. Other than that their usefulness is very hypothetical. Not a good tradeoff considering the risk to American lives, much less considering the troops are not being made to feel welcome.
[quote=“daltongang”]5. doing so is making us look like a bunch of schmucks
[quote]
Cannot agree. Doing so is making America look like a responsible guarantor of regional stability. Sucky job. That’s why I am personally happy that it is the US that is doing it, not the Chinese, the French, and certainly not the South Koreans![/quote][/quote]
Our different conclusions stem from our differences of opinion above. I see America in Korea as the protector of South Korea and little else. It seems to me the trend in SK is away from small scale radicalism and towards a broad based consensus. Our support should not be taken as a given by a people with a growing lack of appreciation of it. We are a country that lives up to our committments and that is important, but if the Korean people are not fully sure that they want our help, then we should not be fully committed to helping them. If we stay that way, we look like a soft touch, and that is not a good image for a superpower. Now I’ll say again I’m not saying that we should just pack up and split. But I DO think that we should realize that trends in Korea could make the continued presence of our troops there undesirable, and that the Korean government should be made aware of that.
"NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Employers slashed payrolls (101,000 jobs) at a surprisingly aggressive pace in December, the government reported Friday, another sign that the labor market will be slow to recover from the heavy job cutting that followed the recession of 2001.
The cuts pointed to surprising weakness in the job market, economists said, just days after President Bush unveiled his plan to stimulate the economy and boost job growth. Economists had forecast that 20,000 jobs were created last month, according to a survey by Briefing.com."
'fan, I understand that you want to continue this trade/economics discussion elsewhere but I couldn’t resist a quick comment about your curious faith in “trade theorists and economists” over the front-line testimony of small-business owners. As you see in the second quote above, the economic experts forecast that 20,000 jobs would be created in December while in actuality 101,000 jobs were lost. At the same time, my small-business owner friend reported to me that his business was worse than ever in December and he had just lost another client and you dismissed that as mere “argument by anecdote.”
When I want to know what’s really happening in the economy the first source I look to is the captains of the real engine of the US economy, small business owners, and the last source the economic experts who, in my experience, are wrong more often than they’re right .
saw today 30,000 joined a pro-us march.
What does this have to do with your contention that trade cuts the level of real wages?
The answer is NOTHING.
GJ. Sometimes you actually have an argument, which is good. But too often you just post a link with a bunch of facts in it. Devoid of any logical argument to make any point.
Of course jobs are being cut - the US has been in a recession and is now growing only slowly. That is nothing to do theoretially or practically with foreign trade. This is precisely why we need economists. To point out to people why your post above makes no sense as support for your contention.
Why are you talking about economic forecasts? I was talking about serious academic work on trade and jobs. Completely different. Economists cannot predict the future? Of course they can’t. And if your friend could predict the future, his business would not be “the worst it has ever been.”
And in terms of % of the workforce, what is 20,000 people? A tiny amount. 100,000? Still tiny. So, the difference 120,000 is actually statistically small. Also, these are volatile figures that can be revised up or down from month to month by enough to eliminate the difference anyway. Statistically, its just not very significant.
Finally, to show how dumb your post is, assume the question had been: "What was the GDP growth rate in the last quarter? Well, we know that it was slow, but above zero. Your mate’s business, being the worst it has ever been, would have lead you to expect what? A negative rate of growth? Plunging economy? Depression conditions?
Fallacy of composition and argument by anecdote.
And when I want to know about CURRENT CONDITIONS IN THE ECONOMY, I also use businessmen as my sources. But when i want to know about the effect that trade is likely to have on real wages and GDP growth and when I want empirical research on what those effect have been in the past, I do not go and ask a software engineer.
Come on, GJ.
That was the daftest one of your posts yet.
Last time I checked South Korea was a functioning democracy. If the SK government decides that the US troops stay then the Koreans can protest against THEIR OWN government and not our troops. We left the Philippines when the government voted to have us out. We can do the same in South Korea. Yet, I do not think this will be sufficient. It seems that on any given day the South Koreans are protesting something. Maybe it is a diet of too much kimchee or an inferiority complex or something. They want to be Japan but hate the Japanese. They got most of their culture from China but they resent that too. They are protected by the Americans but hate their McDonald’s culture. Let’s face it. The Koreans are the French of Asia.
Where did you get that from?
May I suggest - the Irish.
to fred smith: but the South Koreans are strange. THey may be the French of ASia, or IRish as Juba says, but they have embraced Western Christiantiy almost completely. So while they protest against American troop,s they pray fervently to Jesus. A bit schizoid, no? I think they just want their cake and eat it too… er, i mean, kim chee and eat it too!
by the way, I love SOuth Korea! And love Korean food! used to go out with a lovely Korean woman in the States, Kim Ok-cha… o memories
Er…No. What’s religion got to do with it?
Seoul’s Choice: The U.S. or the North
By RICHARD V. ALLEN
EDWARDS, Colo.