Here we go. Slimeball ops have now begun now that the KMT has warmed up relations with the chicoms. This is a massive red flag in my view and I just wonder how this hasn’t turned into a full fledged scandal now that its out? There are just too many points on which this is seriously wrong. I guess the KMT has it’s best interest lying in the Chinese across the strait, not the Taiwanese. Actually, it’s been rather obvious in the current administration, but never so blatant.
[quote=“Captain Stag”]Here we go. Slimeball ops have now begun now that the KMT has warmed up relations with the chicoms. This is a massive red flag in my view and I just wonder how this hasn’t turned into a full fledged scandal now that its out? There are just too many points on which this is seriously wrong. I guess the KMT has it’s best interest lying in the Chinese across the strait, not the Taiwanese. Actually, it’s been rather obvious in the current administration, but never so blatant.
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2010/09/29/2003484055[/quote]
This is disturbing, but don’t let it fool you. The Chinese have always had their secret police activity here. The only thing that might be changing is more awareness on the part of the KMT government.
Any mainland Chinese person who has lived here/ will live here will be briefed by the secret police. They may be offered jobs or just asked questions. They are freakishly everywhere, lol.
I don’t think you understand the point. This was a visit by the head of public security in China that was kept secret by the government. Since the purpose was to have meetings with the Taiwanese police force among other groups it is particularly disturbing. I don’t mean to paint you in with this but I wonder are there still foreigners who insist that there are no differences between the parties in Taiwan?
The “visit” wasn’t all that much of a secret. As contact increases between the ROP & PRC/CCP it is extremely naive to think that occurrences such as this will not be forthcoming.
There are over 5,000 registered agents of the PRC/CCP on the island with probably 2x’s that many more unregistered.
Reality can be a bite in the ass.
(notice I did not end my post in a insipid question)
If you didn’t mean to, then why did you on purpose
I know the difference-one party has absolutely no candidates it can run to win against the other. One party is sure to be in power for years to come-if not indefinitely-because the other doesn’t have its shit together.
I understood the point of the article, I just think it’s irrelevant. The idea seems to be that something super scary is going to come out of such a meeting. My contention is that super scary things are happening now-and have been happening-that people will never know about. Do you really think it takes a face-to-face meeting for the KMT and CCP to collude? Let’s not be naive. This meeting was not necessarily any bigger of a deal than the daily phone calls between the KMT/CCP.
[quote=“suiyuan31”]"…Do you really think it takes a face-to-face meeting for the KMT and CCP to collude? Let’s not be naive. This meeting was not necessarily any bigger of a deal than the daily phone calls between the KMT/CCP."[/quote]
Got proof?
Here on Taiwan comments such as this carry a lot more weight than your body-mass can obviously imagine.
Out of respect for the website you might want to consider the overall effect of statements such as this.
If you didn’t mean to, then why did you on purpose :P[/quote]
You again misunderstand the point. I wanted to make the general statement that this is yet another example of the real life implications of the difference between the parties. Since it was coming right after some comments I made to you I issued the caveat that what follows is not a comment at you. I hope that is clear.
So you believe super-scary things are happening and when possible evidence is presented you say it is no big deal preferring to believe in your own made-up stuff? That’s pretty weird.
There’s nothing sinister about the visit. Exchanges of visits between these kinds of officials are a basic necessity for carrying out the Cross-Strait Agreement on Joint Crime Fighting and Judicial Mutual Assistance, which is very much in the interests of everyone living in Taiwan.
Such contacts between law enforcement officials are routine all over the world. Even in “normal” countries, they would be carried out quietly, without inviting attention from the media circus, the ill-intentioned, and those with a stake in thwarting the effective workings of law enforcement and the judiciary.
In Taiwan’s case, there is even greater need to keep them out of the spotlight, since there are irresponsible opposition politicians and supporters who would seize on them as an excuse to disrupt public order, cause social strife, embarrass the government, and hinder their purpose. Those kinds of people wouldn’t give a damn how costly and damaging their actions might be to Taiwan, as long as they could get themselves a handclap from other radical oppositionists.
[quote=“TainanCowboy”]The “visit” wasn’t all that much of a secret. As contact increases between the ROP & PRC/CCP it is extremely naive to think that occurrences such as this will not be forthcoming.
There are over 5,000 registered agents of the PRC/CCP on the island with probably 2x’s that many more unregistered.
[/quote]
No one said they won’t be more common. Cross-strait crime fighting agreements have been signed. As for agents being here already, no kidding.
But this was, as the article mentioned, the second highest visit of a PRC official to Taiwan in over a decade. That should be open and public. It was not. Why?
[quote]Hsu Jui-shan (許瑞山), chief administrator of the Criminal Investigation Bureau, which organized the delegation’s itinerary, said the information was withheld because of Chen’s sensitive post, which gave his trip political ramifications.
“We had a tacit understanding with [China] … we weren’t going to release this trip to the media because of the upcoming [November] elections,” he said. “The request [for this] came from China, and as the host, we accepted.”[/quote]
Got proof?
Here on Taiwan comments such as this carry a lot more weight than your body-mass can obviously imagine.
Out of respect for the website you might want to consider the overall effect of statements such as this.[/quote]
I’m referring to what you can read in any newspaper. They are in talks constantly. I didn’t say they are always colluding in such phone calls, but that it doesn’t take a meeting in Taiwan to collude. Stop reading into what I’m saying.
What evidence? That they had a meeting and covered it up?
And what made up stuff? Do you not think they are in regular talks that are not reported to the media? How forthcoming has the KMT been over the last 2 years? Every time I watch the news here they are caught in a blatant “stretching of the truth.” This is just one more of many reasons to believe that they are not forthcoming. Did you really think they were running a transparent government before this article? Do you really think they could not do sneaky things without a meeting? So they’re busted…again.
[quote=“Omniloquacious”]There’s nothing sinister about the visit. Exchanges of visits between these kinds of officials are a basic necessity for carrying out the Cross-Strait Agreement on Joint Crime Fighting and Judicial Mutual Assistance, which is very much in the interests of everyone living in Taiwan.
In Taiwan’s case, there is even greater need to keep them out of the spotlight, since there are irresponsible opposition politicians and supporters who would seize on them as an excuse to disrupt public order, cause social strife, embarrass the government, and hinder their purpose. Those kinds of people wouldn’t give a damn how costly and damaging their actions might be to Taiwan, as long as they could get themselves a handclap from other radical oppositionists.[/quote]
I know it’s “inconvenient” for the KMT and its supporters to have to be accountable to the people but that’s to bloody bad. This is a democracy and dealing with the opposition is part of the price you pay for being in power.
Nonsense. This was an extremely high level meeting and as I wrote above the decision to keep it secret was to further China’s agenda to see the KMT do well in the upcoming elections.
Such meetings are not yet “routine” in Taiwan and so need and deserve a bit of scrutiny at the start. Unless you have some bizarre faith that China is not out to annex Taiwan and does not still pose a military threat.
You are talking about the KMT right? Otherwise I am shaking my head sadly at your selective outrage.
Got proof?
Here on Taiwan comments such as this carry a lot more weight than your body-mass can obviously imagine.
Out of respect for the website you might want to consider the overall effect of statements such as this.[/quote]I’m referring to what you can read in any newspaper. They are in talks constantly. I didn’t say they are always colluding in such phone calls, but that it doesn’t take a meeting in Taiwan to collude. Stop reading into what I’m saying.[/quote]
Suiyan31 -
Beg pardon.
You made a direct statement that collusion and regular contacts are made between agents of the PRC/CCP and the KMT.
I merely asked you for proof of such a position.
Do you have the proof?
I stated that there are, and have been, regular actions by registered, and unregistered, agents of the PRC/CCP here on Taiwan. Your comments allude to established collusion between these agents, and other agents, and KMT members in operations detrimental to the well-being of the ROP government.
Again…Got proof?
[quote=“Mucha Man”]Nonsense. This was an extremely high level meeting and as I wrote above the decision to keep it secret was to further China’s agenda to see the KMT do well in the upcoming elections.
Such meetings are not yet “routine” in Taiwan and so need and deserve a bit of scrutiny at the start. Unless you have some bizarre faith that China is not out to annex Taiwan and does not still pose a military threat.[/quote]
I completely agree with you, and I think it’s fair to say that the way you and I look at democracy is very different from the way people here look at it. I have noticed the people who tend to support the KMT feel they are voting for a return to KMT rule. They don’t share the outrage that you and I do over something like this. I have also noticed that people here are extremely selfish: “vote for something that helps me and I don’t give a shit how you get it done.” This could happen 10 more times, even with direct evidence that Ma is moving toward complete unification-and most people would still vote to reelect him. Most people here just don’t give a shit about this issue, which is sad, but true. As long as politicians keep making insanely impossible economic promises (like all Taiwanese will be making US30,000/year within 5 years), people will continue to vote for them.
I don’t like this any more than you do. I would love to stay in Taiwan indefinitely, but if Taiwan in annexed, I’m outta here.
Got proof?
Here on Taiwan comments such as this carry a lot more weight than your body-mass can obviously imagine.
Out of respect for the website you might want to consider the overall effect of statements such as this.[/quote]I’m referring to what you can read in any newspaper. They are in talks constantly. I didn’t say they are always colluding in such phone calls, but that it doesn’t take a meeting in Taiwan to collude. Stop reading into what I’m saying.[/quote]
Suiyan31 -
Beg pardon.
You made a direct statement that collusion and regular contacts are made between agents of the PRC/CCP and the KMT.
I merely asked you for proof of such a position.
Do you have the proof?
I stated that there are, and have been, regular actions by registered, and unregistered, agents of the PRC/CCP here on Taiwan. Your comments allude to established collusion between these agents, and other agents, and KMT members in operations detrimental to the well-being of the ROP government.
Again…Got proof?[/quote]
Actually, I never said any of that. I was not referring to agents. I’m referring to the very well-known fact that the PRC and KMT are in constant communication without necessarily having ‘secret’ or open meetings in Taiwan. They could collude without such meetings if they wanted to.
You are putting words in my mouth-go play crazy with someone else.
