He has promised things and then not delivered, he has called up my girlfriend (who co-signed for me) and said he called the police, then he denied saying that, he called up her teacher and said she didnt pay the rent, then he pretended to be her teacher and called up her parents saying she didnt pay the rent (her teacher said he didnt call the parents). When I tried to call him after that, he stopped answering his phone. Do these things sound like rational actions? The contract says that I have to pay for any damages I cause, I told him again that I would pay for any damages, but I feel like this guy is not to be trusted. When I originally signed the contract, he didnt say anything about a damage deposit, and i have never before had to put up more than 10,000NT$ by other landlords. A damage deposit of NT$60,000 seems a little excessive…
Do you have a copy of the contract? Is it in English? Make sure you know what you have in the contract and not a verbal agreement on things. If so, they just refer to the contract and screw you out on the money.
Mudwhistle, I don’t think that you are going to like my input on your question, but hopefully you can accept it for what it’s worth.
I agree with some of the previous posters, in that you have entered into an agreement with the landlord and you should fulfill your responsibilities under this agreement. You have indicated that you are concerned that he may not fulfill his requirements under the contract (i.e. repay the security deposit to you), but you seem to have overlooked that the reason for the deposit is that he is concerned that you may not leave the place as it was when you moved in, or run up bills before you leave. It seems that both of you have the exact same reasons for taking a stance - that is distrust of the other party - so whose to say who is right in their actions. My feeling is that the person in the right is the person who is following the original agreement that you both willingly entered into - the contract.
If these things were stated in the contract then you may have some recourse. If they were verbal agreements then it may prove more difficult to prove these. Either way, this does not give you the right to stop paying rent. As you have obviously made the decision to move out, what does it matter what he promised and didn’t deliver on.
I’m a bit lost. What exactly was he supposed to have called the police about? Is your question about continuing to pay the rent a future concern, or have you already stopped paying rent.
How did your landlord contact your girlfriends teacher and parents?
Not answering a phone does sound irrational unless of course you know who is trying to call you and you know that speaking with them is going to be a waste of time. Has the landlord reached a stage whereby he is sick of speaking with you because maybe you aren’t listening to what he is saying?
Technically, your landlord is in the right. No matter what you think he might do, you have no right to withhold rent because you fear that he may not give you your deposit back. In fact your decision not to pay the rent will put you in breach of your contract. You could face eviction and may lose your deposit. You would be far better to keep paying rent. At least you have an even chance of getting your deposit back. Continuing on the course of action you have proposed is almost certainly going to see your deposit disappear.
Paying for damages that you cause is a standard clause of rental contracts all around the world. You mention that the landlord didn’t say anything about the damage deposit upfront, yet you paid a three month security deposit of NTD60,000. What did you think that this NTD60,000 was for?
Your previous experience with paying deposits is inconsequential. When you entered into this agreement with your landlord you clearly knew that the deposit was NTD60,000. If you felt uncomfortable with this then you should have found another place that only required a deposit more inline with your expectations. In paying the NTD60,000 deposit, you were agreeing to it, so you cannot really claim that it is unfair at this stage. No amount is excessive if you agree to it.
As you have pointed out, you are a foreigner here. This makes it much easier for you to do the wrong thing by your landlord than it is for him to do the wrong thing by you. If you were an undesirable tenant it would be very easy for you to leave the landlord out of pocket, and simply fly home. He would have no way of pursuing you for money. Should he fail to repay money to you for no reason then you have the option of following this up through legal means. He doesn’t have this option in the reverse situation.
My advice is to settle down and do the right thing - just as you would probably do back home. I doubt that you would attempt the same manouvre that you have suggested here if you were renting a place back home, so don’t do it here. Pay the rent as agreed and collect your deposit at the end. If your landlord tries to screw you then seek assistance from the authorities.
Finally, please bear in mind that your actions reflect upon any foreigners that follow in your foot steps.
[quote=“brian”]
Finally, please bear in mind that your actions reflect upon any foreigners that follow in your foot steps.[/quote]
WTF???
Flicka, what I mean is that should any foreigner choose to break their contract without fair reason, then this reflects badly upon the rest of us. It may make it more difficult for us to rent places, or we could find that landlords start to become tougher in their requirements of us as tenants.
I understand that this would obviously be very unfair and unreasonable - but it is entirely possible. Of course we don’t want to be seen as being fair game, but I don’t think that we want to be seen as a bunch of dishonest drifters either. My point is really this - we should probably make decisions such as the one that mudwhistle has to make, by first considering how we would act back home. I know that Taiwan is very different to back home, but provided that we act under the assumption that their are repercussions to our actions, then surely over the long term this will be a good thing for everyone.
My 2 friends and I have been renting an apartment in Neihu for 2 years. Our school found us the apartment, for which we paid 2 months deposit and went via an apparently reputable agent.
Now the landlord wants to move back in here, as he has come back from Canada. We have no problem with this, as finding another place won’t be too hard and we need a change of scene anyway.
The problem, however is the NT$ 58,000 joint deposit. The house was bare when we moved in bar the sofas, a few poor quality tables, beds and a CD Player that didn’t work. We bouught a ton of stuff and cleaned it up. We have had problems that were promptly fixed by the landlords brother, which implies a dutiful landlord.
The contract itself made no stipulations about loss of deposit other than that deducted for damage. So, we got a dog. He caused no damage. So far, so good. He nor the contract stipulated “no pets”.
But there was a lot of condensation dripping into our kitchen from the floor above, sometimes soaking the kitchen closets and causing the covering to sag and fall off at the corners. Also, some of the wooden tables the landlord lfet fell apart from rot after a week. This was solved, but the damage was already done. Furthermore, many of the pots and pans left by the previous inhabitants were full of mold, so we threw them out.
BTW, the landlord did not live there before us.
There were some marks on the walls that have developed since, which have all been cleaned and everything looks spotless. Some marks, however behind the sofa caused by the sofa always being backed against the wall can’t be removed. So, we assume that it was no fault of our own.
My questions is, though: What are Taiwanese landlords like in general regarding deposits? What are your own experiences? Please let me know…
Thanks
Jim
We need to rent a condo in Taichung for 6 months.
For security deposit, they are asking for 2 months rent. I’m assuming that means that we would pay the rent each month for 6 months. THEN they will check the condition of the place - IF it looks pristine, they will refund us back the 2 months rent we paid as security deposit. Right? It seems like a lot of money for a security deposit, we’ve only ever paid 1 month’s rent here in the U.S. Of course, maybe 2 months is standard/common in Taiwan?
I’ve always paid two months deposit here - one month is apparently a “rent” deposit (to ensure you don’t up and run halfway through the contract) and the other is a “contents” deposit (to cover the cost of any damage you might cause to the place or furniture). If you fulfill the contract and the place is in good order you get your money back.
So yes, I think it is fairly standard here.
Two months is the standard here. And the maximum allowed by law, or is that just Taipei ?
Yes, I have the same experience. 2 months.
When I moved into my place I took pictures of the rooms, furniture, kitchen, stove, walls, etc. with the landlord accompanying me. I put the photos on me computer, printed them out and gave them to the landlord together with the signed housing contract. It’s not that I’m distrustful, but it has happened to me that my deposit was held back for damages that were there when I moved in but I, of course, could not prove.
Also, some landlords can be a bit tricky when it comes to getting your deposit back. :s There is always something wrong…
I concur with the other posters, 2 months is pretty much standard.
I once had to give a three month deposit back in 1999. 
IMHO, insist on signing a contract. And get somebody to go through it (if you don’t read Chinese)before you sign it. There are some clauses you might want to be aware of before you sign.
Best,
Stan
you may want to clarify with the landlord exactly what shape the place must be in when you leave to get the full refund. sometimes you move in and the place is a sty, so you assume when you leave that will be ok as well. or you want to hang a picture, so you put a hole in the wall …
best be thorough beforehand.
Thanks for the reassurance. The good thing is that this place is completely new (finished building in late 2005) and with no previous inhabitants. So everything is new. We’ll probably still take pictures, though, just for ourselves. It’s also a good point to ask the landlord what they expect in order for a full refund on the security deposit, like what constitutes acceptable “wear and tear” on a place. I’m thinking for 6 months, there shouldn’t be too much wear and tear.
I was asked for two months but negotiated it down to one; so it’s certainly possible to do so.
Most of the places I’ve lived in Taipei (over 8?) asked for 1 month’s rent. Asking for 2 months never surprised me, but I would either pass or negotiate down to 1 month
A year ago, three friends and I started to rent a new apartment. The landlady at the time told us she would decorate it and fix the damp. We signed with an estate agent explaining everything to us in English (contract in Chinese), then she changed her mind. Then the A / C broke. It took her a month to get it fixed. A month down the road, she asked us whether or not we had dogs, to which we said yes because we mentioned that when we signed. She said that was OK.
Then the property changed hands to a guy who teaches at TaiDa. This man, seemingly nice came round to visit the property because we complained about 2 lumps appearing in the floor. He said he would fix it. We kept having to pester him to eventually do something. He came round eventually and ripped part of the wood panel floor which was warping up. Then he put carpet over it and left. It looked OK, but he had only taken care of one lump and later an other lump appearered nearer to the wall and kept growing. He said we would have to move out while it was being fixed, which he said would take up to 2 months. We said we would find somewhere to stay during that time, then he said that he wanted to sell it, so could we please find a new place ASAP.
He also said that if we moved out early we would get our NT$36K deposit back without penalty. We found another place and the notified him. He asked if he could speak to a Chinese person so that everything could be dealt with more clearly, whereupon he said that he was not refunding ANY of our deposit because the hallway “smelled of dogs” and three small panels had been broken on a sliding door (easily replacable).
The point is that the place was a dung hole when we moved in, and we made it into a beautiful apartment. Then he tries to take it and screw us over. Can anyone offer my friends and I any advice?
Too late now, but the usual practice here is to stop paying rent a couple of months before leaving and tell the landlord to take it out of the deposit.
The landlord returned our deposit and kept 10000 as security in case anything needed to be paid after we left (bills, cleaning etc). We cleansed it thoroughly but could not get fumigators in (landlord complained about the dog smell). Now the landlord has kept our 10000 after we suggested that he use it to sort things out. He has taken a vacation with our cash, come back and sued us for:
A broken door, which had to be forced open (lock replaced at my expense) because the faulty lock sealed the room from the inside and a locksmith could not open it.
Trash in the house (hardly true because it was totally cleaned).
That’s his basis for suing us. I must note that the house was a real dung hole when we moved in, but had potential. So, we did it up to look great. Then the lumps started leaking in the floor and leaking water into our pad and those downstairs. Then one of the bathrooms had to be shut off to minimise this problem. This is a property he bought off his (now) wife, who was the owner before we moved in. Some idiot at the letting agency actually admitted that the agency knew of this before we moved in. We have photos of what the place looked like before.
Basically, he wants to sue us for these minor things despite the fact that the apartment was in dangerous condition in the last few months of living there (6 months in all).
We are seeking advice about this, preferably from a legal source, although any know-how about this would be useful.
Okay.
First off, where are your photos of the condition of the apartment when you a) looked at it; b) moved in and c) moved out? If you don’t have them, things will be more tricky.
Second, do you have the receipts for your giving him the deposit (possibly written on the back page of your lease document, where the landlord can mark off your rent payments) and for him returning part of that to you?
IMHO he is trying to intimidate you. The “generally accepted practice” for Taiwanese apartments is very, very poor and few tenants even clean the place when they move out. I had a British friend move out of one hellhole and her landlord showed up and started insisting that she remove the flowerpots from the rooftop (which she had not put there nor ever had anything to do with). A brief but to-the-point discussion in Chinese was needed to point out to her why this was not going to happen and why she was going to return the full deposit (which she did).
Since your landlord is offended anyway, I recommend getting a fluent speaker of Chinese – preferably foreign, but as a second choice a Taiwanese who has spent lots of time abroad and will not just fold when the landlord looks at him funny – and informing Landlord B that since there was no damage to the apartment caused by you, you expect the full deposit amount to be paid back, and you’d be happy to go with him to an ATM to make this happen (for his convenience, of course).
If he balks, get his home address, smile, and say, “All right, then”. Then go to the Post Office, make out a Registered Evidentiary Letter in Chinese, stating that your landlord has illegally retained $10k of your deposit money, and you want him to pay it back in full by [date], including your full contact details of course. Repeat this process three times at one-week intervals. If there is no response, sue the bastard. He probably thinks that you don’t even realize that’s what small claims is for in Taiwan. You have little to fear from him suing you – especially since another juicy topic of discussion would be the tax on your rental money, which most landlords do not pay to the government. Mentioning that tidbit often galvanizes the most refund-shy landlord into a walk to the nearest ATM.
Mentioning the tax issue earlier on might or might not grease the wheels – depends on the individual. I can’t judge without knowing him, obviously. But you are going to have to turn the wheels a bit. Also, if he sports large tattoos or drives a big black Benz, you might want to reconsider the wisdom of chasing him for $10K. 