How about sharing that fake ad?
I’d like a look.
[quote=“Mr He”]How about sharing that fake ad?
I’d like a look.[/quote]Do you mean the Carnegie’s ad ? That is linked from here: forumosa.com/3/viewtopic.php?t=13152
We had an interesting dicussion about this topic in one of my classes (don’t ask me how we went from talking about “Dream of the Red Chamber” to foreigners’ sexual habits 
). At any rate, my professor agreed that the stereotypes that exist in the society here and the image that is fed to the public by the media is bullsh*t. My classmates were very surprised to hear her say that, and she went on to explain that she thinks it’s such a double standard that foreigners are criticized for being sex maniacs, promiscuous, etc. when you can go anywhere and find brothels here, all of the “business trips” Taiwanese men take to the mainland, Thailand, Japan, etc. She went on to say that in the “chauvinistic Chinese culture” (her words … she’s a feminist) there is a long tradition of men having no limits set on their sexual activities, and that it still exists, and in her mind is much more common among Chinese/Taiwanese men than Westerners. She also said, in her opinion, that at least foreigners are more upfront and open about it, as opposed to local men who try to hide it (usually badly, since everyone seems to know it goes on but is just in denial).
I think the stress that is put on foreigners being so “sex crazy” has something to do with people trying to cover up or deny (usually for their own sakes) the even more pervasive problem that exists here. Put the blame on someone else and you can forget about your own problems or whatever. 
As an aside, I saw an interesting Taiwanese talk-show called “Generations” last weekend where they talked with a group of young Taiwanese guys and girls, and asked them lots of questions about their sexual experiences, when they had sex for the first time, and in general their attitudes on sex. I was shocked to hear their responses … several of them started having sex at the age of 13 or 14, most of them saw no problem with sex being a “game”, and few of them ever used condoms. A couple of the girls said they took the pill, but seemed clueless that besides pregnancy, STD’s were something else to worry about. One 21 year old boy had already had over 20 one-night stands with girls he met in pubs … and they try to say that foreigners in pubs are sex animals? I’m not saying any of this behavior is either “right” or “wrong” … my point is that I was surprised to hear all of this stuff coming from Taiwanese, who are so quick to criticize foreigners’ sexual behavior, but never seem to take a look at their own actions. Interestingly enough, they weren’t criticized very much for their behavior. The 21 year old was just told in the future he should try to pick up women older than him because they would be more willing to have sex without committment. One of the boys who had sex for the first time when he was 13 was “commended” for being smart enough at the time to pull out before he ejaculated, as if that is any guarantee of not getting the girl pregnant or transmitting an STD … what in the hell are they teaching these kids in the public schools!!! 
[quote=“hexuan”]The worrying thing is not that these shows exist (we accept that the media revels in portraying foreigners as scum) but that there is a perceived audience for this sort of thing. Public reaction to the latest scandal VCD appears to have been one of apathy, and it would be nice if the general public were getting fed up with an endless diet of trash.
However, and it’s a big “however”, I don’t see any turning point in the current trend in projecting all the faults of Taiwanese society onto non-Taiwanese. I would have thought the death of the mainland girls who were smuggled in here, would have resulted in an analysis of the insatiable need of the Taiwanese for prostitutes. Of course it didn’t. And why would it ? For years Taiwanese businessmen in their droves have been patronising mainland knocking shops. It appears economies can be made if the mountain moves to Mohammed, and this appears to have been the major benefit to Taiwan of the Statue Governing [Cross-Straits Relations]. Of course there are quotas - enter Vietnam. And so on.
Clearly it would be an unwise TV station that would run a program exposing gangster bosses smuggling in prostitutes from the mainland or Vietnam. A young exec could find himself wearing concrete jeans on the bed of the Tamshui River! Far better to run a story on how dreadfully sordid foreigners here are. I would actually be surprised if anyone here was shocked by the revelation that young white men in Asia like to shag Taiwanese birds. Pure hypocrisy, and I’m sure many locals would recognise it as such.
It reminds me of the time I spent in Kelantan, the only state in Malaysia run by the fundamentalist PAS party. Whilst the PAS leadership ranted about foreign devils and their filthy dirty evil ways, KTVs, restaurants, and massage parlours across the border in Sungai Golok were doing a roaring trade with the Kelantanese Muslim men. And that was ten years ago.
Pot kettle black. Plus ca change.[/quote]
This is the most intelligent thing any of us have written on this subject.
My favorite example of this ridiculous “all foreigners, particularly male foreigners, are evil” media drivel is a comment made about a year ago on Shi Jie Da Bu Tung, a television talk show which is now defunct. This was right after the Paraguayan diplomat’s story hit the airwaves (women were claiming he had passed stds to them), and the topic was “Foreign Wolves and Innocent Taiwanese Lasses,” or something like that. One of the hosts of the show, a Taiwanese man, made the statement that “foreign men come here only for money and sex.”
That statement accurately describes the reason for living for most Taiwanese men.
Money and Sex…
what’s not to like. I’m certainly not here for the clean air. What man on earth does not strive for money and sex. besides hermits and monks i guess.
There’s nothing wrong with money or sex.
But when they become the main focal points of your life, you’ve got big problems.
[quote=“littleiron”]There’s nothing wrong with money or sex.
But when they become the main focal points of your life, you’ve got big problems.[/quote]
Try telling that to the next betel-nut chewing, night-market bought polo shirt and blue sandals wearing, Mercedes driving Taiwanese guy you see driving down the street …
[quote=“littleiron”]There’s nothing wrong with money or sex.
But when they become the main focal points of your life, you’ve got big problems.[/quote]
Why would that be?
[quote=“LittleBuddhaTW”][quote=“littleiron”]There’s nothing wrong with money or sex.
But when they become the main focal points of your life, you’ve got big problems.[/quote]
Try telling that to the next betel-nut chewing, night-market bought polo shirt and blue sandals wearing, Mercedes driving Taiwanese guy you see driving down the street …[/quote]
Absolutely. From my experience, this applies to many locals and foreigners alike…
Ben I was wondering what would happen in North America if the news played this kind of slanderos story and what the outcry would be. The complete generalization of one group and their lifestyle. Would it just be chalked up to negative stereotyping and life would go on?
Is it not the right of the targeted groups to “fight back” and try to demonstrate the obvious negative impact these actions cause?
‘‘Try telling that to the next betel-nut chewing, night-market bought polo shirt and blue sandals wearing, Mercedes driving Taiwanese guy you see driving down the street …’’
i found out that there is a name for this type of guy…台客 (tai ke)
It all boils down to whether they were taught to respect others or not. Kindergarten students are taught a Chinese song that make fun of Foreign Girls. The song goes, “Foreign Girls are fat and clumsy.” I was pretty surprised to hear a song like that in an establishment which is meant to educate children.
Kids at an early age should be taught better than to disrespect and make fun of foreigners. No wonder alot of the adults in Taiwan don’t respect and see foreigners as PEOPLE!
Danny, Danny: He wrote: “Kids at an early age should be taught better than to disrespect and make fun of foreigners. No wonder alot of the adults in Taiwan don’t respect and see foreigners as PEOPLE!”
Danny, foreigners are NOT people. In every country, they (we) are foreigners, outsiders, outside people, do not belong here people. Get used to it. We do not belong here, never have, never will.
Of course, you are right. In a more perfect world…
I’ll try to get used to everything including insults. I’ll just take 'em as compliments. Anyways foreigners do get certain advantages that the locals don’t.
I think that goes a bit too far. Did the show say that all foreigners were like this? In fact you can find quite a few bars here with quite a few foreigners having a good time with quite a few local girls. It is happening and you can’t exactly call it slanderous. Now I certainly have nothing against that situation, but I can’t think of anything remotely similar going on back home and I can’t help but think that people back home probably wouldn’t take it any better than people do here. All in all, for such a favorable situation perhaps some stereotyping is the price to pay. Anyway it’s not like people point at me screaming pervert when i walk down the street, even with my wife. anyway i was hearing this 13 years ago from local guys when i first came here, it’s nothing new. you can try protesting against it if you want but i don’t think it would do any good. i stand by my comment earlier in the thread about the way to make a positive impact here.
[quote=“Southpaw”]’‘Try telling that to the next betel-nut chewing, night-market bought polo shirt and blue sandals wearing, Mercedes driving Taiwanese guy you see driving down the street …’’
I found out that there is a name for this type of guy…
Ben I was wondering what would happen in North America if the news played this kind of slanderos story and what the outcry would be. The complete generalization of one group and their lifestyle. Would it just be chalked up to negative stereotyping and life would go on?
Is it not the right of the targeted groups to “fight back” and try to demonstrate the obvious negative impact these actions cause?[/quote]
First off, I don’t think news in North America would play this kind of story unless it was on one of those investigative reports shows. Those are usually to be taken with a grain of salt anyway. In any case, if a story was run portraying Asians in a negative stereotypical manner, you can bet that the various Asian groups will protest, call for boycotts, and demand apologies.
What will then happen, is that someone will come out and issue an apology to appease the activists, and life will go on. But, the point I was trying to illustrate with what I said earlier was that despite the apology, you really aren’t changing anyone’s mind. The guy who issued the apology probably still thinks what he thought before. All you did was push the stereotyping underground in the name of political correctness.
It definitely is our “right” to fight back, but realistically, how many people are you truly reaching? What are you actually changing? In our North American example, out of 10 people, maybe 6 would just laugh, roll their eyes, wonder why Asians are protesting against something that they perceive to be true anyway. 3 people would probably think that the Asian groups just like to complain. Finally, maybe 1 person would actually take the time to seriously rethink his views. In North America, people have been fighting and protesting negative Asian stereotypes for decades. Yet, these stereotypes persist, and are stronger than ever, albeit not openly, like in media outlets.
My original reference to negative stereotyping of Asians in Western culture was to illustrate how people can and do protest, but over the years, very little has changed about people’s true perceptions.
It’s probably even more of an uphill battle here in Taiwan. Going back to the original topic of this discussion, I’ve found that a great deal of Taiwanese perceptions of foreigners being open and promiscuous also has to do with Western media. If I had a $NT for every time a Taiwanese asked me:
“Is that how you guys in the west really live?”
“No, of course not.”
“But, that’s how Westerners are in TV and movies” (with a surprised look)
“Do you live like they do on Taiwanese TV?”
“Hmmm, no” (as he/she scratches his/her head and thinks about it)
Call me apathetic, but I’ve stopped caring what people think with respect to stereotypes. Life is too short. 
[quote=“Southpaw”]’‘Try telling that to the next betel-nut chewing, night-market bought polo shirt and blue sandals wearing, Mercedes driving Taiwanese guy you see driving down the street …’’
I found out that there is a name for this type of guy…台客 (tai ke)[/quote]
The Taiwanese equivalent of a “redneck” in the West?
I saw that news too. Danny, the media is really a killer. They reported a lot of information today that misled the public, they corrected the next day or so…
The lady that interviewed was a writer, especially for the intersexual issues. She is a grad. student at present time.
I totally agreed with you. There are both bad and good men, no matter what countries you are in (both bad and good girls too).
Just be careful when making friends.
I hope everybody who come visit Taiwan has good experiences ^___^
i think some people are being babies… do you think stereotypes hurt you more then they help you here? like really at a teaching job… two teachers have identical ability… one is chinese… the other is a tall blue eyed blond hair devil from the western world… who will get paid more? when you are in those situations do you ever stop, and say hey this isn’t fair… from my short time here I find it unbeleivable the warm reception I’ve been greeted with… at bars local men go out their way to help introduce women to you… I come from Canada myself, that would never happen there… the general public thinks of foreigners as less of people… and I doubt thats any different… I think its wrong to cry about stereotypes, but at the same time rape the benifits of them.