Well you could say that about many threads on f.com (and in certain forums, such as Politics, perhaps all of them?).
In the case of the Kending bar, not much effort. In the case of sex on daytime TV (or your own example of turning on the radio in the rental car) well, yes, apparently one does have to go to some trouble to keep unwanted influences out.
But yes “letting them grow up as children” is exactly it. Typical Taiwan kids are denied a proper childhood in all sorts of ways as it is, without adding grown-up sexuality into the mix.
(Seriously, that “fuck” question was asked on the radio? In what language? In what country? For example the French word “baiser” has little of the taboo of the English “fuck”. I’ve noticed that “shag” is no longer taboo at all in the UK – but it shouldn’t be used on daytime radio, should it?
In fact, am I going really overboard in saying that even a term like “copulate”, which is totally non-taboo, should not be heard in the daytime? It means a parent has to (a) lie, (b) tell the facts of life, or (c) mutter some half-truth about “making babies” if the kid hearing it is curious; I want to do my explanations of how things are in my own time, not at the whim of the broadcast media)
I’ve always been comfortable with nudity - I grew up that way, and wife and daughter are comfortable that way as well. I’m also ok with open attitudes towards sexuality, but not all attitudes are equal. [/quote]
Would you have expected a difference in the case of a male or female child, BH? Why?
As I said before, our household is similar to MM’s in this respect. But would I be right in guessing that in most purely Taiwanese families, and even many families with one Western parent, nakedness around the house would be pretty much unthinkable?
[quote=“Maoman”]
Kissing is taboo, but in every NEXT magazine there are graphic images of all kinds of explicit sexual behaviour. [/quote]
Yes this is exactly the sort of weird paradox I meant. Even a peck on the lips to say “Have a nice day at the office darling” is not in the culture at all.
I think that repression of passion is a culture-wide thing though. I’m sure we’ve all seen cover bands here that can play every song exactly note perfect with absolutely zero passion. (Eric Clapton wasn’t born in Taiwan by any chance was he?) I call many of the guys here Jim Morrison. (Come on baby light my fire.)
Also, I actually get kind of embarrassed when Taiwanese people do let loose because many are so incredibly awkward about it because it’s probably one of the few times they’ve ever done it. It’s one thing to go to Thai Disco and see a bunch of sloppy drunks laughing it up on a Sunday afternoon, but it’s another thing entirely to see the fat, pasty, middle-aged Taiwanese guy with his shirt off and his belt between his legs at a Taiwanese bar or the 148cm, 38kg psycho xiaojie losing her shit in the street with her makeup running down her face.
I have these kinds of fears for my children in the future too, though even in the wider sense of a culture/educational system that beats the creativity and critical thinking abilities out of kids. Anyway, it does worry me (coming from Australia where athletic women are at turns emulated/admired/adored/lusted after) that if I had daughters, despite my best efforts, they might hit fourteen and suddenly not want to exercise in case of getting “muscles” or eat in case of getting “fat” and that they might actively dumb themselves down to be silly bimbos in the company of the local guys. Then again, being Australian, I might take the piss savagely if they did speak in fake, squeaky voices.
At risk of belaboring the obvious…In my mind it’s about normalizing things and teaching values; exposing your kids to things so that they can think about them and make rational decisions about them later in life. I think kids are better at thinking about things than we generally give them credit for. My kids have always gotten full exposure to the, “reality”, but I made very clear how I felt about things. I’ve done this from when they were very little. I can’t be there all the time to shield my kids. They are going to see things and they need to be able interpret what they see. Through myself and my wife’s example, I’m hoping they see what a normal relationship is like, (uh oh).
For example have you ever licked your S,O,’s arse? I’m sure most of you have; it’s part of a normal adult relationship, right? While you didn’t post it online, (did you?), or on a magazine cover, or do it in front of your kids, it was okay because it was a loving, consensual and respectful relationship, (most of the time, right?). So how do you get them to understand that sex is good but sexploitation or commercialization is bad; or at least get them pointed in the right direction? When and under what circumstances is licking an arse okay? Can you ever take a picture, (never taken any naughty pic’s?). How can I get them to judge what is right for themselves, without necessarily placing judgment on others? I think they need exposure and guidance. This is what the world is like unvarnished, this is what I think is good, and this is what I think is bad.
When I was growing up, I was allowed to drink water with wine at dinners from a pretty young age and later allowed to drink socially. When it came time to go to boarding school and college, I had no impulse to binge drink since it was nothing special. I was even a bit surprised at the behavior of my classmates; after all, this was something I could do on at a Sunday night dinner at home. Thus, I grew up with some reasonable drinking habits that I still have today.
Frankly I worry less about the cock rings and more about the violence.
Well put. I would add that the calls to hide everything away smacks of cultural arrogance. Personally I find something kind of refreshing about everything being on show. I think it reflects a much greater population density and the fact you simply can not spare kids from all that you’d like to, thus you’d best get them equipped to deal with it.
There’s no contradiction. Haven’t you ever had one of those conversations that goes like this?
Me/you/whomever: “Taiwanese people have a lot of sexual affairs/casual sex.”
Taiwanese person: “No they don’t. Taiwanese are pure.”
Me/you/whomever: “What’s with all the love motels then?”
Taiwanese person: “They’re for married couples.”
Me/you/whomever: “What about person X/you? They/you are in one now/have been to one.”
Taiwanese person: Silence.
It’s a serious WTF moment. I’ve even had one chick who was a bit of a pin cushion try to tell me this despite also having admitted that she had had casual sex several times at love motels. That was bizarre.
My point is that the repression comes from everyone playing this game where they pretend that if they don’t tell the truth, then it actually isn’t real. I know it’s probably a face thing, but that’s precisely my point.[/quote]
Ah I understand now :homer:
Yes, the denial thing:
“Girls in our day were much more circumspect than the young trollopes of today!”
“No darling. You and your friends were shagging your way round a map of the world. It was just darker in those days, the mixers came out of a warm tin, and the floors were a bit more sticky. The music was better too.”
“That’s nonsense! I’m not talking to you any more. I’m off out with my friends!”
“Well then, I’ll see you in Carnage later for the annual Computex Nostalgia Trip.”
I have these kinds of fears for my children in the future too, though even in the wider sense of a culture/educational system that beats the creativity and critical thinking abilities out of kids. Anyway, it does worry me (coming from Australia where athletic women are at turns emulated/admired/adored/lusted after) that if I had daughters, despite my best efforts, they might hit fourteen and suddenly not want to exercise in case of getting “muscles” or eat in case of getting “fat” and that they might actively dumb themselves down to be silly bimbos in the company of the local guys. Then again, being Australian, I might take the piss savagely if they did speak in fake, squeaky voices[/quote]
You know it occurs to me that as an Australian you’re descended from people who didn’t want to live in Victorian England. Which in this sort of area is probably no bad thing.