Shackled Taiwanese official kneeling before her father’s coffin

WTF

3 Likes

For a second I thought it was like wearing sackcloth or something.

1 Like

I think the leg shackles were overkill. They could have done it with handcuffs hidden under a jacket while it was happening. She is not convicted yet, this isn’t how Taiwan should handle it. It looks backwards. She very well be guilty, but she is innocent until proven so like all people.

Don’t they have ankle monitors they can just put on her?

3 Likes

I tend to agree with your take, but somehow can’t manage outrage at how it was handled.

3 Likes

It looks nuts, but I’m more disturbed by her alleged crimes.

6 Likes

She’s literally a criminal :man_shrugging: Doubt they would let you attend a funeral in any other country.

1 Like

She is being investigated and charged, she is not a convicted criminal. Depending on the crime, many countries do seem make exceptions for funerals of close relatives. She very may well be guilty, but I do think we need to be careful of the rule of law when people are not yet convicted.

This isn’t sympathy for her, it’s about how we handle the rule of law that is fair to people and limiting the state’s ability to be authoritarian. This I stand by for all people.

11 Likes

:man_shrugging:

Yea, I don’t ever recall detained inmates being allowed to attend funerals in the USA AT ALL. For one thing it’s a giant security risk because it’s literally at a place and time that EVERYONE knows, and so it would be easier for their cohorts to mount a rescue. Stuff like prisoner transfers are kept top secret, not even the prisoner knows the time/place for a reason.

Maybe a video call or something, but definitely not in person, even in shackles.

2 Likes

Absolutely agree

If you are awaiting sentencing you can usually pay bail which let’s you stay out of jail if you put up the bond money. That’s because you are presumed innocent until proven guilty. Only those who are deemed a flight risk or are accused of particularly heinous crimes are denied it

2 Likes

Maybe Taiwan does it differently.

In the US, at least Federal courts, many inmates are denied bail outright and getting bail is really hard. Even if you have bail and you aren’t able to pay, they still treat you like a regular inmate. I never seen a case of anyone being allowed to attend any funerals at all.

1 Like

Well the US is the arsehole of incarcerations and insensitivity towards prisoners.
However, I think she’s lucky to have been allowed there in the first place. Probably some Confucian filial piety bullshit.
The leg shackles were a bit overkill, though.

3 Likes

The US justice system is very harsh. I just wouldn’t use it as a reference personally.

This seemed like overkill. Taiwan courts often hold people incommunicado prior to trial and jail unconvicted suspects which I think is too harsh for non violent crimes.

5 Likes

It was her damn tactical choice to make a scene.

Not everyone in her situation would have gotten the opportunity that she was given and she took advantage of it smartly probably.

So maybe they can calculate that into her sentence.

4 Likes

Prior to a final conviction through trial, an accused is presumed to be innocent.

Until she is convicted, she is presumed innocent. Would an innocent person be treated in this way?

Even if she is a flight risk, where is she going to run to? Taiwan is an island.

Also might I add there are lots of cases of convicted people, even those executed on a confession, who were later proven to be innocent for example through DNA evidence; c.f. Innocence Project.

With much respect to the American ideal of freedom and democracy, the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world, 639 per 100,000 people. Followed closely by El Salvador (0.572%), Turkmenistan (0.552%) and Rwanda (0.511%).

3 Likes

You’re new, right?

Remember ZD’s daring escape with ingenious disguise :grandpa:

Edit: Funny shit, ZD is a verified forumosa user, but can’t be @ tagged ^^

1 Like

What is going on there? Have things changed this much in Taiwan due to the pandemic? What type of crime did she commit to be shackled like this? Murder? Child rape?

Reading the article, ZD was convicted already at the time of fleeing. So it is different from someone who is presumed innocent prior to trial.

Also, even if someone else fled justice prior to trial because we afforded him/her the presumption of innocence, one swallow doesn’t make a summer. Let us not resort to collective punishment because of the bad deeds of a few.

1 Like

US freedom is mainly about your freedom to mouth off and act like a dumb*ss. I am from the US and can bear witness :slight_smile: But yes, the US loves to incarcerate people for any old thing like not being able to pay to get your car out of the impound lot or not pay your parking tickets or for selling some loose cigarettes, etc. CoreCivic, GEO Group, and MTC all doing quite well and making lots of money in the US.