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Oh and people still believe in the myth that you should work hard instead of work smart. My mom used to tell me to follow my classmate who’s like top 130 in mid school and study hard until 3am everyday while I’d never fallen out of the top 30. I mean if you need to study that hard, you must be doing it wrong… People think that if you’re not rewarded, you mustn’t be working hard enough. So you should just work harder to get recognized. And if you’re not working hard, you’re a piece of shit no matter how good you’re doing.
To fight the logic behind those kinds of misbeleifs is impossible… I’ve tried it my whole life. Now I don’t talk to my family because they think I’m a disgrace since I value logic more than authority… all I’ve done is telling them this is a dead cycle designed to trap people in… I mean you could tell how the authority could use this logic to not give you a raise, like, forever, right…? Right? Sometimes I feel like I’m the only sane person in the world but wouldn’t that make me insane?

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In Japan, about 5 years ago, hourly rate in the capital was more than 1000 yen, while the lowest pay in rural is 700 something yen. In Taiwan it’s always the legally lowest pay. Or, more often, even lower… and people are OKAY WITH IT!!! They think they only worth that much!!! And that’s killing me!!!why would ppl think it’s okay why why why!!! Sorry if I disturbed anyone. It’s just that I’ve been dwelling on this for so long… don’t mind me…

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Yea well how is one person going to buck the trend? Taiwanese always say you can’t change your environment, you have to change with the environment.

I mean you keep insisting on a raise working year after year without a raise, and you’re going to get the chicken head at the next weiya.

And you ever wonder why I don’t want to get a job instead of trying to fix guitars? Well because no matter what job you’re working at you’re going to get the legally lowest pay. Doesn’t matter if it’s construction work or working at 7-11.

And this is why Taiwanese are almost always passive aggressive.

In the US you got paid better if you sought harder jobs, got more than 20 an hour (when legal minimum is either 7.25 or 15 depending on where you work) if you took on construction work that involves working in 100 degree heat. Or if you learned skills and got a job as a welder, plumber, HVAC tech, you got 20-30 an hour.

In Taiwan all of those jobs are exactly 150 an hour, which is the legal minimum. Why bother learning skills? Truck drivers in the US are paid by the mile but they paid well because it’s a lonely job. In Taiwan truck drivers got 30k a month if they’re lucky and they are driving over 12 hours a day, in complete exhaustion, and the routes are so convoluted that you can’t possibly finish them in a day. Maybe that’s why Taiwanese drivers are such assholes.

I mean I’m seeing more differentiation now than before, like dishwasher is advertising at 170 an hour. It could be better though.

That’s about how to negotiate not about believing you only worth getting paid with a banana. I mean if you can’t get a raise, find a new job with higher pay. Can’t find any? Well then maybe you really don’t worth much. But I’m talking about how people would believe that they only worth a banana and no more. Not even trying to get a raise. Not even trying to get a new job. You have no idea how many times I see a colleague who worth like 50% more than what they had, but they just refused to talk to their supervisors or find a new job. I got a new job with higher pay. I can see if someone worth more.
And what does this have to do with the low salary society? Well since there’s so many of us believing that the laobans are the only one capable of evaluating people’s worth, they don’t need to worry about employees quitting. I’m just saying, it’s very likely. Now if the laobans actually believes that people are likely to leave for a better job, they might worry more about the salary. Plus lower than lowest wage, are you serious… people are living on lower than lowest wage outside of Taipei. And it’s very common.

problem is if one day employees get sick of being lied to, they might end up automating more and more stuff, and that would only increase unemployment, unless the govt start mandating jobs or institute a UBI by taxing the automated companies more. Something has got to give. And all China has to do is offer a little incentives… Taiwanese can be very pro China if pushed the right way.

But hopefully the price of stuff will get pushed down with all the automation where everything is Taobao priced.

I think it’s 158 now, and people usually get 160.

Funny thing is, there is more demand than supply. Even the bus drivers. They could easily plan a strike and get recognized. But they just believe that they need to work their ass off with the pay they have so much. Talked to a bus driver years ago and it was like that. For what I know it hasn’t changed much. Nah I’m talking about the will to fight. Winning is another thing. We might not win, but not even have the spirit to fight…

https://law.moj.gov.tw/ENG/LawClass/LawAll.aspx?pcode=N0030001

There are overtime pay clauses in the Labor Standards Act.

Carrefour isn’t going to ignore this.

And that is exactly why we don’t need more babies. I think I talked about it in another thread. And automation doesn’t just take away jobs, it also creates jobs, just in a different domain. You need more mechanics for the hardware and engineers for the softwares, etc. it creates jobs that requires higher education, or training. With automation, the relative technology would also be applied to other market. IOT technology could also be applied to households or supermarkets. And that’s more new jobs, to maintain the system.

LSA is ignored by virtually all employers. Or at least some creative accounting is done. Since the will to fight for your right is so low in Taiwan, try and report your LSA violation and you will become permanently unemployable. Bosses talk to each other. And the mechanisms to enforce them isn’t very strong either. Be ready to quit once you make a report.

In the past automation created new jobs, but the current crop of automation isn’t creating jobs, it’s destroying them faster than they are made. You need maybe a handful of system admin, IT specialists, etc. to maintain an entire country’s automated system.

I heard people say that labor laws are stronger in China and they enforce them pretty strictly too. I think it’s because it’s tied to CCP’s legitimacy. If people are facing mass unemployment the CCP will get ousted so fast their heads will spin.

True. That’s the irony of it all!

Only in big cities though. I mean all those sweatshops aren’t imaginary. And the force labor from prisoners? Where news got out, sure. Other places? Nah. Communism or what ever fancy jargon name you call it, it’s basically totalitarianism.

I don’t disagree with this. So I think it’s dumb to tell people to multiply like bunnies without considering this…

I don’t think the pay is too low, maybe just a small adjustment. Taiwan has low income inequality, which points to (relatively) fair compensation. The bigger problem is the low value of NTD imo.

Well NTD seems to be appreciating like mad, and that kind of hurts Taiwan.

In the UK, I can command a high salary because employers would rather pay me a high salary to do an excellent job than to pay somebody else a lower salary to do an adequate job. In Taiwan, they would rather pay somebody less money to do an adequate job. I’m not sure why this is, because it doesn’t seem to be that way in other developed countries, but I’m convinced that this is how it is and one of the biggest factors holding Taiwan back.

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I’ve never had a job where what you say is accurate. Supermarkets, paramedics, teachers (at private schools), secretaries, marketing, retail, tech. I’m not saying what you say is never accurate, I’ve just never seen it.

Sorry but that is bollocks.


I think everyone would agree that 1000 yen/hour in Tokyo is a much more nightmarish scenario than $150/hour in Taipei. Not saying that $150/hour in Taipei isn’t bad, but 1000 yen/hour in Tokyo or £8/hour in London is like a whole different league of death.

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This is not true at either my company or my wife’s. My wife’s secretary makes US$60,000 a year as she’s had the job for 25 years or so. More competent, younger secretaries get about US$20,000. It’s so hard to fire people in Taiwan even for gross incompetence that the problem of under productivity and toxic culture can become overwhelming unless you’re willing to take the short term economic hit and ridiculous payout.

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That is completely untrue.

https://fnc.ebc.net.tw/fncnews/life/125334

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It won’t hurt. Not if it happens slowly and not until 24-25 NTD/USD. We already know Taiwanese companies can adjust to high income environments, many have done it already, others will do so as well. Also stronger NTD will help with keeping and attracting talent which should help with balancing some of the problem.