taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/ … 2003137000
Is DDP Legislator Shen Fu-hsiung (沈富雄) correct in stating that the ethnic issues have been over used by the DDP party?
Does “Love Taiwan” directly corrolate to when one arrived on the island of Taiwan?
Is one’s time arrivial on island, China policies, relevant to one’s Taiwan identity?
“Love Taiwan” is indeed a kind of code, with a subtext. But then, so is the pan-Blue insistence that otherwise-disinclined politicians should be made to fly the “national flag” and sing the “national anthem.” I think this is a fine thing for them to have political debates on.
Screaming Jesus,
I don’t see how the national anthem in ROC alienates any ethnic groups in Taiwan.
Well, some of them are disproportionately likely to avoid singing it, and desire to change it to something less KMT-inspired.
Screaming Jesus,
I don’t follow you mean like the Star Spangle Banner vs. God Bless American in the USA.
Unless you want the sing the National Athem in Minnan. It just a song from the 1930’s by Dr. Sun for pete sakes.
Don’t tell me the DDP don’t like Dr. Sun either.
ROC was founded in China. ROC’s symbols are not about Taiwan, they are about KMT, unification with China, 228, White Terror and so on. The ROC must die or as our hero Lee Teng Hui said, the ROC is already dead. Long live the Republic of Taiwan.
Time for the KMT to change their name to the Taiwan Nationalist Party, chang ethe flag and anthem for the pupose of ethnic unity lets come up with something new that reflects today’s realities not 1911 dreams. We need new symbols for this country that do not open unhealed wounds. Symbols that both WSR, BSR, DPP, PFP, KMT and New Taiwanese can all identify with.
For ethnic unity lets come up with something new.
Hobart,
Let’s says that happens to satisfy the local constituents on the island of Taiwan.
You still have to resolve the Chinese civil war.
Is ROT going to go to PRC and say “we have finally defeated the KMT for you.”
Amusing but not realistic.
The dream of the ROC was the Chinese people could have self determination against foriegn forces occupying Chinese territory. It was the revolution 1911, spawn from intellectual revolts. The Chinese people on Taiwan are part of that dream.
If not for ROC the chinese on Taiwan would have been Japanese. Totally unacceptable by Chinese standards.
… and a lot of the residents don’t give a rat’s ass. They just remember all the nonsense they were forced to memorize in school and want nothing to do with it.
[quote]
If not for ROC the Chinese on Taiwan would have been Japanese. Totally unacceptable by Chinese standards.[/quote]
Funny how every Taiwanese I ever spoke to who is old enough to actually remember the Japanese occupation tells it differently. Given the choice between the continuation of Japanese rule or occupation by KMT, they would have chosen the former. Of course they would all have chosen self-determination above either, but that’s another story.
I think different people and groups had different goals, not always the same as their stated ones. A lot of Chinese–ROC partisans and otherwise–just wanted to get rich or powerful, for example.
There is also an important ambiguity about who counts as “foreign,” and what territory is “foreign.” Sun Yat-sen opposed the Manchus, and the ROC didn’t care so much when Japan took Manchuria. And for supposedly anti-foreign movements, both the ROC and PRC eagerly sought after Russia, Britain, etc. as foreign allies.
Who is to say what dreams the people of Taiwan ought to have? Maybe the concerns of 1911 no longer speak to them.
In the 19th century, “Chinese” (today we would call them “Han”) anti-Ching agitators loved Japan, and hoped for its political assistance against the Manchus. Much of the appeal of “democracy” was anti-Ching, since the Manchus were not so numerous, and the Meiji example was seen as one which China might follow. Some Chinese actively desired Japanese rule.
In any case, why should “Chinese” standards be presumed to have value? Taiwan would arguably have done better to have remained a Japanese territory, like Okinawa.
Hard to say I just usually assume people are all self serving by nature and idealism take a back seat. But any large group of people you will find all kinds. But as long as they share a common vision, or mission statement it is okay.
Maybe to colonialist and instigators. But ask anyone Chinese today. I’m pretty sure they have a good idea of what is Chinese territory and Chinese disputed territory.
USA and UK are allies. And it was a slave master relationship at one point. ROC and PRC seeked allies not colonialist masters.
Depends on which concerns you are referring to. I don’t think ROC can take back the mainland or Mongolia or Tibet either. Doesn’t mean they are they are now absolved of history.
The novel 1984 this is not, no “doublethink” history. Not okay I’m sort of Chinese because I have a slip of paper of my hometown in the mainlander in my pocket, but please forgive me what Chinese civil war?
Yes the were rebels and sought foriegn alliances. Well we all know what happened to the Meiji era (sic).
The last sentence I’m going to have to take with a grain of salt. Those comfort women were accosted with the most beneficial terms that would make any Taiwan English teacher mouth salivate. China gave Japan Manchuria, you know that whole railroad terrorism was just an accident. Who needs a railroad when you have a queue…
I met a people from Okinawa as exchange students when I was a student in Taiwan. From what I gather they don’t see themselves as part of the main Japanese society.
So you think the people of Taiwan would be better off as 2nd class citizens of Japan, instead of the laughing stock and black sheeps of the global Chinese community. I don’t think the Chinese community would agree with you.
All of China’s political leaders sought foreign alliances, “masters” if you will. They had to.
At the end of the 19th century Japan revealed itself as a powerful, modernizing Asian country which could defeat a European power (Russia). Of course Chinese revolutionaries admired it. Many of them went there to study.
I suspect that Taiwanese would rather be like Okinawa than like Hainan.
C’mon, AC. Why do you make silly comments like this? The fact is that the majority of women were either hoodwinked (told they would get factory or similar work) or forcibly kidnapped.
…to them that dream is a nightmare of martial law, corrupt government, and political murder. What is your purpose in writing nonsense like this?
Screaming Jesus,
I don’t disagree with the events. Many of the intellectual revolutionaries studied abroad. The Chinese in general are not xenophonic people. They went to Japan, German, USA etc. Any place of higher learning.
But not to be mastered, but to gain mastery of advances that China had stagnated behind the rest of the world.
However, to suggest that this going abroad to study and learn was an open invitation to the Opium wars, Open Door Policy, Invasion of 8 nations is quite an insult.
Classic case of the Stockholm syndrome.
Vorkosigan,
Because Screaming Jesus has a very dry sense of humor about him. Unless he’s serious then I would think he’s disturb. 
I don’t ignore the fact that “white terror” was not a plight in Taiwan history. But to assume the current actions of the DDP government are any less terrible is also not true. Or to absolve the DDP of responsibility because they are “democratically” elected is also nonsense.
The point is to address what the intellectual revolution were about in 1911 by Dr. Sun. Chinese self determination. It went down two paths, PRC and ROC. Just humor me the KMT brainwashing as a child you understand.
But Chinese concept of Manifest Destiny of Territorial integrity is still pretty strong. Just like Taiwan concept of Self determination is pretty stong. I forsee the final resolution of this conflict before I’m 50 at this point. Pegged on China own economic growth and USA support of ROC.
Personally I feel ROC resourses should be spent on engaging PRC, and not squandered on stirring ethinic issues on the island to garner votes, or playing political brinksmanship chicken with China to garner votes .
It is articles like this
reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtm … ID=4899937
and this
voanews.com/article.cfm?obje … 7B40FFC50A
Which illustrates the waning support of USA to ROC cowboy politics. No longer using “strategic ambiguity” on Taiwan’s actions.
[quote=“ac_dropout”]
Classic case of the Stockholm syndrome.[/quote]
So AC_do, you would prefer to live on Hainan over Okinava? Good for you.
Hainan is Sex Tourist Central for China. AC just wants to hang out with the whores.
and now to hijack this thread in to something completely irrelevant…nominations for a new national anthem please…if it has to be in mandarin i’ll go for that little ditty from some years back
“kuaile jiu shi nanme rongyide dongxi…don’t worry be happy” which has the great clapping/counting bit in the middle…would be great at sports events
or if in minnan the lin qiang/lim giong re-write of “zaihui ba” from way back in the day…“laike daibak pa ba” la la la and then the rousing chorus of “ooh xiame long mgya”…actually used to get played in tops for those of you old enough to remember (ac would have been in nappies of course)
[quote=“ac_dropout”]
I don’t ignore the fact that “white terror” was not a plight in Taiwan history. But to assume the current actions of the DDP government are any less terrible is also not true.[/quote]
Maybe you could give us some numbers on how many innocent pan-blue supporters have been abducted from their beds, tortured, exiled or summarily executed.
It is fascinating though, watching your arguments slide from the ridiculous into the sublime…
damn i missed that one…i do believe the lad’s surpassed himself with that little bon mot (sp?)…exactly what drugs is he on to get this kind of distorted view of reality?..it’s like saying mandela’s got a bunch of hardcore afrikaaners locked up somewhere that he’s tortuing with the comfy chair…
Not… THE COMFY CHAIR? hehe
Hey cut AC some slack there, he actually doesn’t “ignore the fact that “white terror” was not a plight in Taiwan history.” His sense of balance may be completely out of whack and only taken out for a drive once a month on Sunday, but it appears he actually does have one! 