Should I work in Taiwan or California?

Work Working in Taiwan
1

Hi everyone.

I need your opinions for a big move I’m considering in my life.

I’m currently working in Shanghai for an international advertising agency. I’m sick of Shanghai and China. I’m sick of it. I want to move to some place more developed. It’s true that Shanghai and China is growing at exponential rates and that people are flocking here like it’s the next mecca. But I don’t care. It’s not what I want anymore, after 2 years here. I’m still in my mid-twenties - I want to work in a corporate environment that can help polish my skills. In other words, I want a more professional environment. In China, all your coworkers are useless. (the local ones, anyway). There’s no team work, no concept of it, at least. Anyways, point is, I want to go somewhere more developed so I can be sure I learn the right skills, not the wrong ones.

Right now, I need more experience.

Therefore, I’m considering to move back to Taiwan or California when my contract is up. (soon).

But I can’t decide where! I want to go into marketing for either video games or entertainment. I like the Taiwanese music industry (though they lose money) and I like entertainment and gaming.

Do you, as expats in Taiwan, forsee the Taiwanese economy getting stronger? Do you believe that all the companies are moving to China and finding a good job in Taiwan will be hard?

Do you think, that at my age, I should go back to the US and learn more skills since I already have my 2 years in Shanghai and also have my Taiwanese market experience? (I’m Taiwanese American, btw).

People tell me all sorts of different things – stay in China, things are growing, go back to Taiwan, the market is good, or go back to the US, make more money and learn more professional skills.

It ultimately comes down to what I want, but I’d like to seek your opinions since you guys are in the Taiwan market. I want a good balance of opinions.

thanks a lot!!

2

chun li -
There are a hell of a lot of people on this forum who are not english teachers.

From the sound of things your most logical move would be to Cali, Phoenix, Az, Chicago, Miami or even NYC for your journey in enlarging your skills and experience.

Contacts and your network are your best assets in this. Also keep in mind the cost of living is going to be a huge leap from PRC or Taiwan standards.
There are agencys in LA, San Francisco and Chicago who specialize in Asian market work. Your language skills might open these doors. From there you can look at what is available in other venues.

Good luck.

3

For advertising and polishing your skills, I would recommend going back to the US. Taiwan’s ad agency market is not particularly strong and quite limited. The folks I know here (working in the big name ones) have similar complaints as you. Taipei won’t be an improvement versus Shanghai on this one.

GL,

4

Probably the best thing would be to head back to the States.

I did a little freelance marketing/advertising work in Taiwan, and from what I saw the market was pretty immature. Problems would probably be similar to what you experience in China, albiet a less extreme version.

I also worked in Finance in Taiwan, and again the environment was not exactly professional.

On the other hand. . . Taiwan nice, so if developing your skills isn’t such a priority you could always give it a try.

I am in Shanghai now by the way. Let me know if you want to meet up for a drink. Always keen to meet Taiwanese over here - what with the Shanghainese being such idiots and all.

5

Wow. So everyone thinks I should go back to the states, huh? I guess that would be a good move. I just don’t know if I would be completely happy since compared to Asia, the US is so boring. But comfortable.

Sucks that you can’t have it all. It’d be the best if people were professional in Taiwan and as mature as the US. Then I wouldn’t have a problem deciding.

Are Taiwanese people anything like the Shanghainese? I dont’ mean the ones who have traveled overseas. I mean the ones in corporate Taiwan… are they as immature and as stupid as the Shanghainese?

I really don’t want to believe that!!!

6

Well, since you’re so young comparatively speaking, then I there’s nothing wrong with staying in Asia, Asia is where the action is at. Although, with advertising, Asia is not where the action is at. It sounds to me that you’re serious in pursuing an advertising career and for that, you’d have to go State-side.

And a lot of the rants against Taiwan/-ese would disappear as well :wink:

[quote=“Chun Li”]Are Taiwanese people anything like the Shanghainese? I don’t’ mean the ones who have traveled overseas. I mean the ones in corporate Taiwan… are they as immature and as stupid as the Shanghainese?

I really don’t want to believe that!!![/quote]

My exposure to the Chinese professional is that their attitudes and skill sets seem to be much better than the average Taiwanese. YMMV depending on industry.

7

[quote=“Chun Li”]Are Taiwanese people anything like the Shanghainese? I don’t’ mean the ones who have traveled overseas. I mean the ones in corporate Taiwan… are they as immature and as stupid as the Shanghainese?

I really don’t want to believe that!!![/quote]

Enjoy Shanghai then did you ? :laughing:

8

I “landed” 2 weeks ago. I worked all my life in Europe, and the last year in Taiwan.

2 Facts; our company works with Adv. agencies (big names) and…yep, hey are immature. Not seen the real western world yet.

Asia is where the action is as someone sated. I would personally never go to the US, but my mind is maybe EU spoiled.

Whatever you do, you are young and always able to “undo” it no?

9

With two years in Shanghai on your resume, the only reason I’d choose to stay on in Asia would be if you need to improve your Mandarin for any reason (you don’t say if you’re natively bilingual in Chinese or not, or if so if you also read and write). If that is important to you, then staying on in Asia or choosing Taiwan might have some foundation to it. Otherwise, for pure career development, I would imagine that the States might be the way to go based on what others have said and what your own goals sound like from your post.

Just my NT$0.66, your mileage may vary.

10

21p, in short, I hate living in Shanghai. The only thing I like about it here is the 4 dollar massages. Also, I get to order people around because they’re naturally stupid. Which is another problem in itself, because now I’m trained to believe that people are naturally stupid.

I guess it’s really not fair for me to say that since it’s a DEVELOPING country. But with all the propaganda and the way they’re selling their tourism, I figure that if they’re going to falsely advertise then I have the right to demand.

This huge international company called me today for an interview and I passed the HR manager. And then when she approved me to the upper management, this one director said that my experience is in foreign countries (China, Japan, the US) and I don’t have any local experience. Uh, hello, Taiwan is only the smallest market compared to the other 3 countries I’ve lived in. Not to mention I’m fluent in speaking and advanced in writing mandarin. Not to mention that I went back to Taiwan every summer for around 12 years of my life. Anyways. I don’t think she’s really being fair. And if I can survive by myself in China (the most screwed up and hard market I’ve been in so far) I REALLY don’t think Taiwan will be much of a problem. Like, duh. :unamused:

Yellow Cartman - Did you just say in your post that the Chinese are much moer professional than the average Taiwanese?! Omg?!~? WHAT?

11

Chun Li,
I’m assuming you are venting here, and didn’t give anyone at the company this sort of attitude…but if you go into a Taiwanese company sounding even a little bit arrogant, proud of yourself, overconfident, etc., they will not like it. You’re supposed to go in as a greenhorn and meekly and humbly learn from everyone else. (I translate a lot of speeches for the head of the Evergreen Group, and every year the stuff they tell the new hires — wow!!) :noway:

12

Yes, I’m aware and yes I’m venting here. If you have ever worked with as many locals as I have in China you’ll have a reason to vent. I’m hoping the Taiwanese aren’t as bad as they are, since they haven’t gone through the whole cultural revolution brainwashing and now are a lot more westernized than the mainlanders.

I mostly want to pick Taiwan because I like living in Asia. That’s all. But I question if that’s a good career move. I guess when this decision is going to affect my entire future and career I get a little nervous about choosing the country. Seems like everyone else here already have their careers established so seems like an easier choice. Well, I’m glad everyone likes Taiwan, except for the “Taiwan is so dirty” threads.

13

Assuming you never got past a Bachelor’s degree, go back to the states and get an MBA. A few years of experience in China and/or Taiwan is nice, but the MBA will really open doors for you and you’re still young enough that it shouldn’t be such a big deal going back to school. Later it will be more difficult.

14

I’m looking up MBA programs in Taiwan already. I heard there’s some good ones. A lot of people do the MBAs in Shanghai and they say the curriculum and professors are from Columbia and they have some kind of cooperation going on. And of course, it costs 30,000usd a year.

15

[quote=“Chun Li”]21p, in short, I hate living in Shanghai. The only thing I like about it here is the 4 dollar massages. Also, I get to order people around because they’re naturally stupid. Which is another problem in itself, because now I’m trained to believe that people are naturally stupid.

I guess it’s really not fair for me to say that since it’s a DEVELOPING country. But with all the propaganda and the way they’re selling their tourism, I figure that if they’re going to falsely advertise then I have the right to demand.

This huge international company called me today for an interview and I passed the HR manager. And then when she approved me to the upper management, this one director said that my experience is in foreign countries (China, Japan, the US) and I don’t have any local experience. Uh, hello, Taiwan is only the smallest market compared to the other 3 countries I’ve lived in. Not to mention I’m fluent in speaking and advanced in writing Mandarin. Not to mention that I went back to Taiwan every summer for around 12 years of my life. Anyways. I don’t think she’s really being fair. And if I can survive by myself in China (the most screwed up and hard market I’ve been in so far) I really don’t think Taiwan will be much of a problem. Like, duh. :unamused:

Yellow Cartman - Did you just say in your post that the Chinese are much moer professional than the average Taiwanese?! Omg?!~? WHAT?[/quote]

somethings here don’t click. sorry

if you went back to taiwan for 12 years every summer, my guess is that you have some local relatives here. i am rather surprised at your lack of taiwan corporate culture given the amount of time you spent in taiwan (and the possibility of already having local connections)

16

I currently have friend in Taiwan who is doing advertising / marketing and she loves it. Her bilingual skills def. help her with this job. She’s been there for 3 years already and still very eager to come back to US for the type of job she does.

If you are young, stick in TW for a few more years to get your international experiences. When you move back to US, it will help you to find a job that have big Asia Market.

17

why come to Taiwan? I’m thinking of going to Shanghai. Is it really that bad? my friend who’s in Shanghai said it’s great there.

18

Naahhh go back to your US passported country… :smiley: :smiley: Maybe if you come back to Taiwan and you’re male you’ll end up doing military service. :help: :help:

And it sucks being Taiwanese American here, actually it just sucks to be an american here, so my american friends tell me after being here plus 15 years hehehehe :smiley: :smiley:

Califorina Dreams and can I have kippers for breakfast…

19

I too bristle at the “Shanghai people are stupid”. I am tempted to retort that they are fleecing Taiwanese people for every penny they’re worth and who’s stupid? I also know for a fact (which I won’t share with y’all) that Shanghainese people hate the Taiwanese with a passion that I have never encountered before.

And I will also wager you can’t tell the difference between a Shanghainese person and a wai-di ren. (You think the people walking about the streets of Shanghai are Shanghainese? HAHAHAHA!)

I think an attitude adjustment is in order. I know why most Taiwanese are hated in Shanghai, and I also know the other side of the story: being a Taiwanese guy in Shanghai who has done nothing to be so despised. I have met quite a few Taiwanese in Shanghai who’ve been in China for years and who have begun to understand China very well. But a very very few.

There’s not a bunch of people on earth who are “stupid”. Rather about 90% of the entire human race is “stupid” and it doesn’t seem to vary with race, nationality, or gender. But I accept you’re having a rant here, Chun Li, so don’t take my comments to heart. I like a good rant as much as the next man, and I also aoften feel very sorry for the large number of non-arrogant-wanker Taiwanese in China.

I’ll share one beautiful story with you of a girl from [the interior] in a certain Shanghai nightclub beginning with “G” who had learnt a bit of Shanghainese. I was in there sitting near her and her highly intelligent (ahem) Taiwanese businessman “friend” as he told her all about the good things Taiwan had, like electricity and running water. She starts off telling him in mandarin with a heavy (put-on) Shanghai accent how that’s amazing and they don’t have electricity at home and her family’s so poor and wow isn’t Taiwan so wonderful. I honestly thought she was joking… Mr Binglang fluffs up with pride. I had to go to the loo and bust myself laughing. She got a nice gold watch for her troubles. A very expensive ego-massage and your man has no idea he is being laughed at by a peasant from bumfuck nowhere and the whole table (including a foreigner).

One of thousands of examples, not all by any means nightclub-related.

Stupid mainlanders! :laughing: (Not be so stupid when they’ve sucked the Taiwanese dry…)

20

For Chi - All the upper management in my corporation are Taiwanese. And you wouldn’t be able to tell “taiwanese corporate culture” from a few posts. People act different in real life. Plus, I’ve never worked in a local Taiwanese company. My current uppermanagement are all Taiwanese with foreign experience. Therefore, I’d suspect they’d be different. However, if I went back to Taiwan, I wouldn’t work for a local company.

Miaka - That’s what a lot of ABCs are doing. You think that the US really has a heavy focus on experience in Asia right now? Are you staying in Taiwan for experience as well too?
Satellite - Do you have a Taiwanese passport? I won’t have to do military service, thank god. I think you’d be popular with the “la mei” because you’re ABC. You know how ABCs are popular with the local Taiwanese girls.

21p - I have lived in Shanghai for 3 years. I think you underestimate that. And I have plently of local friends, and I know all their ways of “sucking the Taiwanese” dry. In fact, I’ve been out with them when they’ve done it, and they’ve shown me how to do it, not that I need to. Also, Taiwanese companiese here are also taking advantage of the Shanghainese labor, you can’t admit they aren’t. 1500rmb a month while Taiwanese get 30,000rmb+ for being an expat? If only they knew how much more their uppermanagment gets. This also goes the same for other American and European companies who use China’s cheap labor.

And the “smartness” you seem to give the Shanghainese people that I dislike is their sly ways to rip off people. Do you really consider a woman who can suck a Taiwanese man dry smart? Yeah, pretty clever if the Taiwanese just wants to use her for a quick lay. I’d say it would be mutual “smartness” don’t you think?

And of course I can tell a wai-di-ren when I see one. I understand Shanghainese by now. I can tell by their accent where they are from, Sichuan, Guangzhou, etc. I work with people from all over China, and I talk with people from all over China everyday.

When I meant stupid, I meant, selfish, greedy, agenda motivated, no team work, no long term strategy or thinking, etc. I’m talking about their stupidity to work together as a collective group for a bigger purpose. Anyways, no need to get into that, it will take too long.

Most of you have only visited Shanghai and have never lived in China for an extended period of time. And if you have worked here, you may not have had to work with 100s of mainlanders everyday. All I have to say is, you guys are lucky the Taiwanese have a much more mature corporate environment. And if you have lived in China for so long and loved it - why did you move to Taiwan?

So this goes back to the original question - Taiwan or California?

FilChi - What does your friend do in Shanghai? Does he have a job that deals with locals everyday? If so, I’d suspect he’d have some headaches that he hasn’t told you about. And if he is a player, then of course he’d love it here. A few bucks and you can bring a chick home with you easy. They’re not as picky as the Taiwanese girls yet. A lot of expat men enjoy Shanghai better than the expat women.