Should I work in Taiwan or California?

[quote=“Chun Li”]Oh? So tell me how long you have lived and China and your extensive work life. How did you like managing locals? How did you get them to teamwork together? Did you find that foreign management styles clashed with their culture, if so, how did you change it? Also, how did you prevent your employees from selling industry secrets to competitors? Did you have multiple staff trying to sabatoge each other to gain promotions? If so, how did you erase their negativity and make them work for one goal? Moreover, what were your experiences dealing with factories from inner China? Did you find that negotiations with them at the local KTV bar proved to me more fruitful than ceremonial meetings? Also, in your daily dealings with local factory owners, did you find that they would ask you for bribes? If so, how did you deal with this incident? Also, when the terms of the contract are different than previously discussed, how did you solve this problem with your vendor while keeping your company protected against their scheming?

Please, since your extended stay in China means you understand the difficulties working in the mainland, can you enlighten me with your experience and possibly provide some opinions on how you solved the problems by maintaining your morals without upsetting the local suppliers? And what made you decide to move to Taiwan and not stay and challenge that mainland market? Maybe your exhaustive experience in the mainland can help me find difference solutions to the many ethical problems that plague foreign entities trying to start up in greater China.

Thanks in advance for your forthcoming intellectual advice.[/quote]
Good Q’s all.
I, for one, would be very interested in seeing some answers to these.

Anyone?
And please, I am referring to concerete specific answers. Not textbook theory or PC “Well thats the way it should be done” punditry.

Maybe not “stupid”, but certainly not likeable. Without a doubt less likeable than people from Guangzhou, Beijing, Shenzhen, Chengdu, Xiamen, or a host of other places in China.

I actually prefer Shanghai over Beijing. But anyway, I’d encourage folks to visit SH. In my mind, it’s the “must” place to see on a tour of Asia, along with Tokyo.

[quote=“TainanCowboy”][quote=“Chun Li”]Oh? So tell me how long you have lived and China and your extensive work life. How did you like managing locals? How did you get them to teamwork together? Did you find that foreign management styles clashed with their culture, if so, how did you change it? Also, how did you prevent your employees from selling industry secrets to competitors? Did you have multiple staff trying to sabatoge each other to gain promotions? If so, how did you erase their negativity and make them work for one goal? Moreover, what were your experiences dealing with factories from inner China? Did you find that negotiations with them at the local KTV bar proved to me more fruitful than ceremonial meetings? Also, in your daily dealings with local factory owners, did you find that they would ask you for bribes? If so, how did you deal with this incident? Also, when the terms of the contract are different than previously discussed, how did you solve this problem with your vendor while keeping your company protected against their scheming?

Please, since your extended stay in China means you understand the difficulties working in the mainland, can you enlighten me with your experience and possibly provide some opinions on how you solved the problems by maintaining your morals without upsetting the local suppliers? And what made you decide to move to Taiwan and not stay and challenge that mainland market? Maybe your exhaustive experience in the mainland can help me find difference solutions to the many ethical problems that plague foreign entities trying to start up in greater China.

Thanks in advance for your forthcoming intellectual advice.[/quote]
Good Q’s all.
I, for one, would be very interested in seeing some answers to these.

Anyone?
And please, I am referring to concerete specific answers. Not textbook theory or PC “Well thats the way it should be done” punditry.[/quote]

I’m curious, too. These are very good questions. Maybe this topic should be moved to a thread of its own (and no, I don’t mean the flounder forum!).

BTW, while I don’t think the Shanghainese should be labeled as “stupid”, I’ve heard foreign managers over there use much stronger words, so let’s cut Chung Li some slack.

[quote=“hypermegaglobal”][quote=“TainanCowboy”][quote=“Chun Li”]Oh? So tell me how long you have lived and China and your extensive work life. How did you like managing locals? How did you get them to teamwork together? Did you find that foreign management styles clashed with their culture, if so, how did you change it? Also, how did you prevent your employees from selling industry secrets to competitors? Did you have multiple staff trying to sabatoge each other to gain promotions? If so, how did you erase their negativity and make them work for one goal? Moreover, what were your experiences dealing with factories from inner China? Did you find that negotiations with them at the local KTV bar proved to me more fruitful than ceremonial meetings? Also, in your daily dealings with local factory owners, did you find that they would ask you for bribes? If so, how did you deal with this incident? Also, when the terms of the contract are different than previously discussed, how did you solve this problem with your vendor while keeping your company protected against their scheming?

Please, since your extended stay in China means you understand the difficulties working in the mainland, can you enlighten me with your experience and possibly provide some opinions on how you solved the problems by maintaining your morals without upsetting the local suppliers? And what made you decide to move to Taiwan and not stay and challenge that mainland market? Maybe your exhaustive experience in the mainland can help me find difference solutions to the many ethical problems that plague foreign entities trying to start up in greater China.

Thanks in advance for your forthcoming intellectual advice.[/quote]
Good Q’s all.
I, for one, would be very interested in seeing some answers to these.

Anyone?
And please, I am referring to concerete specific answers. Not textbook theory or PC “Well thats the way it should be done” punditry.[/quote]

I’m curious, too. These are very good questions. Maybe this topic should be moved to a thread of its own (and no, I don’t mean the flounder forum!).

BTW, while I don’t think the Shanghainese should be labeled as “stupid”, I’ve heard foreign managers over there use much stronger words, so let’s cut Chung Li some slack.[/quote]

Kiwi, you live in Shanghai too so you know the real story. Shanghai is a lot more complicated than Taiwan since there is no systematic structure (well, we ARE the pioneers for the building of) and so many people who just see the surface of China assume they understand everything.

I’d like to say that in terms of sneaky and greedy Shanghai wins it. In terms of strategic bribing, I’d say it’s a lot more fun in Beijing. Also, I got the best service in Xiamen. It also was really nice to hear the typical Taiwanese “slang” when they talked so I felt right at home speaking with them. Too bad most of Xiamen is a dump.

Tainan Cowboy, I think most of the answers to the questions would be illegal. haha. I suppose that’s one of the reasons why certain expats fit China - you can do all the things in the book and it’s accepted.

Hyper - I’ve heard all kinds of words used myself. Actually, I think Friday nights in Shanghai are the craziest since all us expats are unwinding after a long week with the locals. I swear, working in China (if you operate with locals everyday) is the most energy draining. It’s like you’re a kindergarten teacher.

I guess this is one reason why many people leave. The gray hairs start to become countless and it’s not worth it anymore.

80% of the people on this board are young English teachers. (with headbands, it says so under their tag). So I’m not sure what experience they have that is relevant to your questions.

Much of the (rapidly consolidating) advertising industry is in NYC. I agree that much of the USA is boring, but if you consider NYC boring… maybe if you aimed a little higher culturally than Shanghai whorehouses… you might be able to suffer along there.

It sounds like you need a city, what about Hong Kong? A different flavor of mercenary atmospherics, but maybe more professional.

Well, I beg to differ…

Having spent several summers interning in the Hsinchu Science-based Industrial Park, and having worked in (and with) a handful of MNC’s in the U.S., I’d say that the differences are exaggerated, especially if you are already familiar with both cultures. In fact, I have noticed that in a well-established MNC, corporate culture often overrides national cultures. (Disclaimer: I’m not in advertising industry or marketing.)

As for making more money in the U.S., that’s largely overrated too. Please remember that income does not equate to wealth. While my income is 3+ times in nominal value of my friends’ in Taiwan doing the same line of work, they are able to save more, thus accumulate more net worth. In the end, that’s what matters if you want to talk about bottom line.

Anyway, my point is – just follow your heart – there are skills to be learned and experience to be had anywhere if you have the right attitude.

Shenme - yeah, I know. It’s like that in Shanghai too. Most of the people are english teachers so I agree you have to look to find the answers. I found the US boring because I’ve lived there for so long. And after school in Japan, I didn’t want to work there. And since Taiwan is so familiar from childhood, I figured I’d go see what the fuss in Shanghai is all about. It’s been several years now and frankly, getting a little old. I was thinking about Hong Kong, but aren’t the women there all aggressive and authoritative? I’ve never worked in HK so I don’ t know. I’ve only visited there extensively. I definitely do find them more professional than their mainland counterparts. I figured that if I wanted “wholesome” experience from a professional, developed country I should probably go back to the states. Can’t go wrong if you have experience in the states right? (Who knows).

Xiren - same thing I experience in China. I am able to save large sums of money while still drinking X.O. and going binge shopping. So here’s a question, do your Taiwanese coworkers like to backstab and sabatoge each other? Do they tend to get jealous over your salary because you’re an expat and you do the same work as others?

[quote=“Chuck Berry in The Promised Land”]

I left my home in Norfolk, Virginia
California on my mind
I straddled that Greyhound and rode him past Raleigh
And on across Caroline
We stopped at Charlotte, we by-passed Rockhill
We never was a minute late
We was ninety miles out of Atlanta by sundown
Rollin’ ‘cross Georgia State
We had motor trouble that turned into a struggle
Half-way across Alabam’
And that 'Hound broke down and left us all stranded
In downtown Birmingham

Right away I bought me a through train ticket
Ridin’ ‘cross Mississippi clean
And I was on the Midnight Flyer out of Birmingham
Smokin’ into New Orleans
Somebody help me get out of Louisiana
Just help me get to Houston town
There are people there who care a little 'bout me
And they won’t let the poor boy down
Sure as you’re born, they bought me a silk suit
They put luggage in my hand
And I woke up high over Albuquerque
On a jet to the promised land

Workin’ on a T-bone steak a la carte
Flyin’ over to the Golden State
When the pilot told us in thirteen minutes
We’d be headed to the terminal gate
Swing low sweet chariot, come down easy
Taxi to the terminal zone
Cut your engines and cool your wings
And let me make it to the telephone
Los Angeles, give me Norfolk, Virginia
Tidewater four-ten-o-nine
Tell the folks back home, this is the promised land calling
And the poor boy is on the line…

[/quote]

A bit of unsolicited advice: Don’t ever fear women from anywhere. They treat you as you deserve to be treated.

T-Man -
Great song…gonna have to bring that one up and hear it again!

[quote=“TainanCowboy”]T-Man -
Great song…gonna have to bring that one up and hear it again![/quote]

Seems that we share a common taste in music, doesn’t it?

You ought to give a listen to the Grateful Dead’s cover of this song!

:slight_smile:

A bit of unsolicited advice: Don’t ever fear women from anywhere. They treat you as you deserve to be treated.[/quote]

I have a friend who can’t wait to get out of hong kong because she says they’re like tigers and all the testosterone gets tiring. My other friend works for a Singaporean and claims they’re worse. Who knows.

What makes you say this anyways:

Word on the street is that Japanese women make the best wives,
and that Hong Kong women are ballbusters. My advice:

[color=darkblue]Planes, boats, and women: rent, don’t buy.[/color]

to OP - Chun Li

So now, what determines where you wanna stay and work? Women?? I though its more for your career ?

maybe women is another criteria to make your decision?

Funny, as a wage slave slob working for some anonymouse US corporation - I do get a good number of these Taiwanese American whiners like Chun Li submitting their resumes. Since my firm is a US firm, they generally expect the job to be handed to them on a silver platter. Typically they don’t get hired despite thier pretensions because:

  1. They’re whiners. Attitude counts for a lot
  2. They seldom have focus.
  3. They are even more arrogant than the expats. Attitude counts for a lot
  4. Their skill sets are often pretty average
  5. Their experience is often just average
  6. Their pay expectation are much higher than average

Every once in a while, you do run into a diamond in the rough - a Taiwanese American with all of the above in the positive.

Best to go back to the US or get a “make a job for junior”
with the family company

Who cares what one woman says about a group of other women?

I made that comment because you remarked about the nature of women from Hong Kong in a way that seemed you would rather not like to get to know them.

I’ve learned that despite the obvious and often substantial differences between men and women, men and women everywhere are just people. Generally, people like to be treated fairly and with respect. If you encounter an individual of either sex anywhere in the world who treats you with a lack of fairness and or respect, it usually is not very difficult to rectify the situation. Thus, there is, IMO, no need to fear women from anywhere.

[quote=“Elegua”]Funny, as a wage slave slob working for some anonymouse US corporation - I do get a good number of these Taiwanese American whiners like Chun Li submitting their resumes. Since my firm is a US firm, they generally expect the job to be handed to them on a silver platter. Typically they don’t get hired despite thier pretensions because:

  1. They’re whiners. Attitude counts for a lot
  2. They seldom have focus.
  3. They are even more arrogant than the expats. Attitude counts for a lot
  4. Their skill sets are often pretty average
  5. Their experience is often just average
  6. Their pay expectation are much higher than average

[/quote]

These reasons are also why many of them don’t get hired at language schools either. :wink:

The only Taiwanese American I know well moans, whines, groans, wheezes, squeals and grunts. Which is just as well, since he’s a blues singer.

How do you whine in the blues? Any good examples?