Dr. Henry Morgentaler has been nominated as a Companion of The Order of Canada.
The Globe & Mail is conducting an online poll. At time of writing, the NO side is overwhelmingly ahead.
I’m not going to debate the abortion issue, but before you vote (if you are inclined to do so) take a moment reflect upon the above quote, the bolded text in particular.
I don’t believe he’s a good candidate, although I am in favour of a woman’s right to choose.
I believe a woman should have the right to choose (although not in late term unless the woman’s life is in risk–all late terms are currently legal in Canada), although in personal circumstances I would be considered pro-life (e.g. I would be upset if my wife ever had an abortion). While Morgentaler has helped numerous women get access to safe abortions and has even spent 10 months in jail because of this, he also performed tens of thousands of abortions and made over C$11 million dollars each year for his work. I don’t think these actions should be rewarded by the state.
Decades ago, he put himself on the line to make available safe abortions, and probably saved the lives of a number of women who would have otherwise sought unsafe alternatives.
But it’s a sadly necessary, but nasty service. Not one suited to the award.
I’d say give it to him. Imagine, for example, that the human soul really exists. When the time comes he’s going to need all the help he can get tipping the scales in his favor.
that’s about all one can do with the human soul, or any other soul: imagine that it exists.
just saying.
[quote=“urodacus”]that’s about all one can do with the human soul, or any other soul: imagine that it exists.
just saying.[/quote]
Being pro-choice and considering the consequences if God exists is definitely not something very pleasant to imagine.
[quote=“spook”][quote=“urodacus”]that’s about all one can do with the human soul, or any other soul: imagine that it exists.
just saying.[/quote]
Being pro-choice and considering the consequences if God exists is definitely not something very pleasant to imagine.[/quote]
Especially for late term abortions (which are legal in Canada and the US). I mean, how can anyone deny that this is not a human being?
Pro choice or pro life is really not an issue you can be in be mostly in one camp or another about. I’m pro choice, but disagree with a lot of choices made (young people having abortions because they’re too afraid to tell their families they’ve had sex, for example). But to pro-lifers, anything short of no abortions at all puts you in the other camp.
I see the issue really being about safety and medical ethics. Do you deny access to this procedure and force those who would seek abortions to risk injury and death in back room clinics?
I also notice the incongruence of the pro-life stance with other stances hard righters usually have: capital punishment and resistance to gun control. Can’t abort fetuses but we can kill adults (disproportionately black in the US) for crimes? I see. No abortions, but gun violence is ok? Sure.
Late term abortions are one thing, but I find it hard to see a human soul in zygotes; at least it’s a lot harder to see one there than in a death row inmate or a potential victim of gun violence.
Think what you will about individual womens’ choices, but access to safe abortion procedures is a sign of mature, civilized society. Morgentaler helped make that possible.
I disagree here–it’s not so clear cut. I’m pro-choice for society, pro-life for my own family, and against anything late term. What does that make me? Reluctant pro-choice?
Having travelled to many poor countries, I’ve seen a lot of unwanted children begging in the streets. I’m a firm advocate of family planning in these countries. In developed countries, I think women should have control of their bodies, but not after a certain time period (when the zygote has developed into a form that somewhat resembles a human).
[quote=“spook”][quote=“urodacus”]that’s about all one can do with the human soul, or any other soul: imagine that it exists.
just saying.[/quote]
Being pro-choice and considering the consequences if God exists is definitely not something very pleasant to imagine.[/quote]
Only if you assume God is anti-abortion, and since he doesn’t mention the issue in his handbook, that makes it anybody’s guess.
[quote=“MikeN”][quote=“spook”][quote=“urodacus”]that’s about all one can do with the human soul, or any other soul: imagine that it exists.
just saying.[/quote]
Being pro-choice and considering the consequences if God exists is definitely not something very pleasant to imagine.[/quote]
Only if you assume God is anti-abortion, and since he doesn’t mention the issue in his handbook, that makes it anybody’s guess.[/quote]
You think God could be pro-choice? That’s an odd thought. It’s hard for me to imagine how someone who considers Himself the Creator would appreciate being second-guessed.
By your definition, Toasty, I’m pro-choice. I’m also against capital punishment, at least in any form that I’ve ever seen it in the real world.
But this pro-life/capital punishment “incongruence” is an argument I’ve never had much respect for. :s
The view of the pro-life people is that aborting a fetus = killing an innocent life (i.e. capital punishment on someone everyone agrees is not guilty of anything). In other words, it’s not necessarily wrong just because a human being was killed – it’s wrong because (in their view) an innocent child was killed.
Let me ask you this: Do you see an incongruence in Person B’s position, below?
Personally, I may not agree with Person B that torture should ever be used, but I certainly wouldn’t call him some kind of hypocrite for objecting to its use on innocent kids for no reason.
Then again there’s the other view:
"Oh gimme a break! 
I mean, is Person B for torture or are they against it!? Make up your mind! Oh yeah, yeah, right … I get it – they are FOR it for certain people, but AGAINST it for other people. Whatever… :loco: "
[quote=“Toasty”]Pro choice or pro life is really not an issue you can be in be mostly in one camp or another about. I’m pro choice, but disagree with a lot of choices made (young people having abortions because they’re too afraid to tell their families they’ve had sex, for example). But to pro-lifers, anything short of no abortions at all puts you in the other camp.
I see the issue really being about safety and medical ethics. Do you deny access to this procedure and force those who would seek abortions to risk injury and death in back room clinics?
I also notice the incongruence of the pro-life stance with other stances hard righters usually have: capital punishment and resistance to gun control. Can’t abort fetuses but we can kill adults (disproportionately black in the US) for crimes? I see. No abortions, but gun violence is ok? Sure.
Late term abortions are one thing, but I find it hard to see a human soul in zygotes; at least it’s a lot harder to see one there than in a death row inmate or a potential victim of gun violence.
Think what you will about individual womens’ choices, but access to safe abortion procedures is a sign of mature, civilized society. Morgentaler helped make that possible.[/quote]
It would be hard to see a human soul under any circumstances.
I’m an opponent of both abortion and capital punishment. I avoid the obvious pitfall of imposing my religious beliefs on others by standing aside as far as abortion in the first trimester goes. Second trimester? I think the benefit of any doubt can only ethically go to life. Besides, if a pregnancy has progressed that far, a woman has already made a de facto choice.
Third trimester? Get outta here.
I will not attempt to enter the debate about abortion, except to say that I most assuredly pro-choice, and leave this little curmudgeonish quote:
“If men could get pregnant,
abortion would be a sacrament.”
FLORYNCE KENNEDY
Good choice.
Good choice.[/quote]
Is that my right or my obligation?
[quote=“spook”][quote=“MikeN”][quote=“spook”][quote=“urodacus”]that’s about all one can do with the human soul, or any other soul: imagine that it exists.
just saying.[/quote]
Being pro-choice and considering the consequences if God exists is definitely not something very pleasant to imagine.[/quote]
Only if you assume God is anti-abortion, and since he doesn’t mention the issue in his handbook, that makes it anybody’s guess.[/quote]
You think God could be pro-choice? That’s an odd thought. It’s hard for me to imagine how someone who considers Himself the Creator would appreciate being second-guessed.[/quote]
I assume you oppose the installation of lightning rods?
[quote=“MikeN”][quote=“spook”][quote=“MikeN”][quote=“spook”][quote=“urodacus”]that’s about all one can do with the human soul, or any other soul: imagine that it exists.
just saying.[/quote]
Being pro-choice and considering the consequences if God exists is definitely not something very pleasant to imagine.[/quote]
Only if you assume God is anti-abortion, and since he doesn’t mention the issue in his handbook, that makes it anybody’s guess.[/quote]
You think God could be pro-choice? That’s an odd thought. It’s hard for me to imagine how someone who considers Himself the Creator would appreciate being second-guessed.[/quote]
I assume you oppose the installation of lightning rods?[/quote]
You assume incorrectly. What I oppose is murder.
