Should one learn Taiwanese / Minnan / Hokkien?

The main DPP proposal in the mayoral election was to turn Songshan airport into a world-class park like New York’s Central Park or SF’s Golden Gate Park.

[quote=“Feiren”][quote=“Alleycat”]

Hicks are unsophisticated, which means they rarely see beyond there noses. Witness the DPP’s strategy in the last mayoral election: “Vote for us, and we’ll squash all your traffic fines.”
[/quote]

The main DPP proposal in the mayoral election was to turn Songshan airport into a world-class park like New York’s central Park or SF’s Golden Gate Park. I personally thought that was a great idea.[/quote]

Further impracticability, I’d say, though I have nothing, absolutely nothing, against parks, having to drive 50 minutes to Taoyuan for a 45 minute jump to Kaosiung doesn’t quite add up now does it.

Well most Taiwanese speak Taiwanese when they speak among themselves. When they speak to foreigners they usually use Mandarin or English. I don’t think anyone is suggesting that the Taiwanese abandon speaking Mandarin or English and simply talk among themselves.

Well, the DPP also had the good sense to promote the High Speed Rail project meaning you will be able to walk to Taipei Station and get to Gaoxiong in 90 minutes.

Hold on. Isn’t Taiwanese (or Min nan hua) already an official language along with Hakka, Mandarin and English?

I any case I agee with Wix on the diversity issue. As an Australian I might think it better for Australia’s indiginous population to speak English, but that doesn’t mean they must do so at the expense of aboriginal languages even if they are spoken by no more than a hundred people.

I can’t see anywhere in the thread where someone has inferred that Taiwanese be used at the exclusion of Mandarin.

HG

Once again, not the only official language, but the 2nd one next to Mandarin. There’s a reason why MRT stops are announced in MinNan and Hakka as well as Mandarin. It sure isn’t for the turists.

Still not sure what this CLANISM stuff means, but at least it sounds better than that HICK think you said before.

I respect anyone’s right to speak whatever language he wishes, but in all honesty can you say that Taiwan’s interests will be served by making Taiwanese an official language. Not only will this further alienate Taiwan, it will also add about 300,000 miles of red tape to the light years currently existent in the dungeons of bureaucracy in Taipei.

Your arguments are wishy-washy, to say the least.

[quote]The world needs diversity. Biodiversity, geodiversity, linguistic diversity, cultural diversity. Diversity=Health. [/quote]Ah, yes, the diversity of Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland, spitting the community like that is just what they need. Same during the apartheid of South Africa, keep the white and blacks with their own cultures. Burundi,
much better to be members of a tribe first, and a member of the human race second. Better for Taiwanese to argue against Chinese than with Chinese for a common goal. :unamused:

[quote]Alleycat wrote:
Generally, people who speak Taiwanese tend to be xenophobic, judging by the DPP’s support base.

Alleycat, at least 80% of people in Taiwan speak Taiwanese. Are you suggesting they are all xenophobic. [/quote]I wouldn’t say that Taiwanese speakers tend to be xenophobic, but some xenophobes tend to speak Taiwanese for their political ends. Chen Shui-Bian does it. Sein Finn does it (Not Taiwanese obviously before you misquote me) Some people choose to speak Taiwanese instead of Mandarin to seperate themselves from another group of people.

Harvard to teach hokkien

[quote]Linguists and language educators Wednesday praised the introduction of language and literature classes on Hokkien at Harvard University, saying that Taiwan’s identity will gain more recognition in the international community under such an initiative.

“The fact that the prestigious Harvard University will offer courses on the Hokkien language indicates that the language has been recognized by the international community and, in the meantime, Taiwan’s national status will be further acknowledged,” said Lu Ching-ching, chairman of the graduate institute of Taiwan languages and language education at National Hsinchu Teachers College.

“An even more important element is that the focus of the courses will not be limited to language training. The inclusion of Taiwan’s literary works will make the nation’s culture, history and people better known to the outside world. The event has significant meaning for us,” he said.

Lu made the comments in response to a local media report that starting this fall, Harvard University will provide language and literature courses on Hokkien, a Fujian dialect spoken in parts of southern China and here. In Taiwan it is often referred to as “Taiwanese.”

The courses will be taught at the beginning and intermediate levels for undergraduate and graduate students. Arnold Lee, who has a doctoral degree in linguistics from the University of Hawaii, will teach the courses.

Aside from giving lectures to promote Taiwanese language and literature in both Taiwan and the United States, Lee writes poetry in Hokkien.

Reports said that the courses provided at Harvard will center on teaching basic Hokkien-language skills and Taiwanese literature.

If the courses are well received by students, the reports said, the department would consider setting up a research center for Taiwanese studies in three years.

This is not the first time an overseas institution has shown an interest in Taiwan’s languages.

According to Peter Tiun, an assistant professor in the language education department of National Taitung Teachers College, the University of Hawaii was the first overseas college to teach Hokkien-language courses, an initiative that began over ten years ago.

It has remained a popular subject at the school as a result of the ardent efforts of Robert Cheng, a professor of East Asian Languages and Literatures.

In addition to the University of Hawaii, the University of California at Berkeley, Stanford University, and the University of Washington in Seattle at one time provided courses on Hokkien. According to Tiun, the Zurich University of Switzerland once taught the language of the Paiwan Tribe.

The language educator also said that the Overseas Chinese Affairs Commission plays a vital role in the promotion abroad of the languages of Taiwan.

“Since the change of government in May of last year, we’ve seen a change in the operation of the council. It is taking on more endeavors overseas. I believe these native languages will gain more international attention if the government continues its efforts,” Tiun said. [/quote]

Better learn some Hokkien, it’s good to add flavor to your chinese if not english…besides we still drink TEA in english which originally is a Hokkian word.

ax

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]Hold on. Isn’t Taiwanese (or Min nan hua) already an official language along with Hakka, Mandarin and English?

I any case I agee with Wix on the diversity issue. As an Australian I might think it better for Australia’s indiginous population to speak English, but that doesn’t mean they must do so at the expense of aboriginal languages even if they are spoken by no more than a hundreds people.

I can’t see anywhere in the thread where someone has inferred that Taiwanese be used at the exclusion of Mandarin.

HG[/quote]

HG, yes, I have not, except for my blunder earlier, thought for a second that Taiwanese would exclude Mandarin; however given the DPP’s tactics (the word Taiwan on passwords for example) and assuming that they may one day have the license in distancing Taiwan from China, I could easily see Chen or someone else making Taiwanese the official language, thereby distancing Taiwan from China, and making it doubly difficult for foreigners.

How quickly we all forget that Taiwan relies heavily on contact with China and the US. Communication with both is essential, or would you rather have Taiwan as a South Sea Island?

And in the interests of being fair, some imposed Mandarin on a majority Taiwanese population in the interests of dominating them.

I don’t see the link between diversity and factionalism. I speak Australian English and have a preference to write using English English (despite the demands of my job). That doesn’t mean I’m about to lop off the head of an American and eat their liver.

I think the waters are being awfully muddied here, ie, speaking Taiwanese amounts to Taiweanese nationalism. Its simply not the case. The bulk of Taiwanese speak Min nan hua because that’s their mother tongue

Why should you learn Taiwanese? Because it is commonly used and like it or not, is increasingly appearing in public forums. Simple.

HG

What on earth makes you think Chen Shui-bian is xenophobic?

A language is JUST a language. It is a tool. What you fashion with it is its beauty.

It just so happens, are we not fortunate, that English is the Microsoft of languages. Mandarin is fast catching up, and this is why it is so important for Taiwan’s economic health.

The author of the article above, doubtless a DPP stooge, cannot see that Taiwan having Taiwanese as its official language as a means to creating an identity is akin to telling all Taiwanese to install Apple Macs, instead of PCs. It will soon come be known by everyone that it’s impossible to send a file to Taiwan as here there are only G3s.

Alleycat. I agree instituting Taiwanese as the primary language would be a mistake. The rteason being it would fail to acknowledge the Mainlanders, Hakka, aboriginal people and the foreigners that call Taiwan home (and spent an eternity trying to hone their Mandarin!).

I’d like to think the DPP weren’t that stupid.

HG

Diversity and being part of a global community don’t have to be mutually exclusive. There is a need to recognise that it is the diverse elements that make a healthy and vibrant whole. The problems in Northern Ireland, South Africa or Burundi are not a result of diversity, but a result of intolerance of diversity.

Damn those dastardly Scandinavians!

Diversity and being part of a global community don’t have to be mutually exclusive. There is a need to recognise that it is the diverse elements that make a healthy and vibrant whole. The problems in Northern Ireland, South Africa or Burundi are not a result of diversity, but a result of intolerance of diversity.[/quote]

Wix, diversity and clanism are not the same things.

Damn those dastardly Scandinavians![/quote] :blush: Eeek, I knew there was a ‘ei’ in a funny place somewhere, Let’s try ‘Sinn Fein’ Is that better ?

[quote]The problems in Northern Ireland, South Africa or Burundi are not a result of diversity, but a result of intolerance of diversity.[/quote]Exactly, how tolerant are the Taiwanese of Mainlanders, how tolerant is Aboriginal Tribe A of Aboriginal Tribe B ? Not very when I read my Taipei Times. Ah… I think I might have found the problem… :blush:

Speaking of dastardly Scandanavians, where’s Mr. He?

HG

The draft Language Equality Law defines 12 languages including Mandarin, Holo (Taiwanese), and Hakka as ‘Official Languages’. Before, Mandarin was defined as THE National Language. It’s still a draft bill, so Taiwanese (or Holo) not yet legally a National Language on par with Mandarin.