Shtuff found on Taiwan beaches

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
21

It’s a small island with a significant civilian population. That’s not the right place to leave nuclear waste. As for security, there might have been a couple of 19-year-olds leaning on an M16 somewhere, but it looked deserted to me.

This isn’t just mine tailings or industrial filth we’re talking about. Of all the countries currently using civilian nuclear power, virtually none of them have anything other than stopgap measures for storage, with the expectation that some future government will cough up the cash to actually bury the waste securely enough to survive intact on geological timescales. Would you seriously trust Taiwan’s culture to deliver anything better than the current best practice, which (as far as I can tell) is the USA? They have trouble understanding that motor vehicles are dangerous, and you can’t even see radiation.

The report I linked to was measuring very low levels, but they were steadily increasing, and they were isotopes which could have only originated from a fission process. That suggests a leak. The alternative explanation is that they’re washing in from elsewhere, but that could be confirmed by taking tests at different places in the surrounding sea. Anyone heard of Taipower doing such a thing to prove conclusively that there is no leak?

Out of sight, out of mind is not the same thing as “safe”. You’ve been living in Taiwan too long :wink:

22

It’s a small island with a significant civilian population. That’s not the right place to leave nuclear waste. As for security, there might have been a couple of 19-year-olds leaning on an M16 somewhere, but it looked deserted to me.

This isn’t just mine tailings or industrial filth we’re talking about. Of all the countries currently using civilian nuclear power, virtually none of them have anything other than stopgap measures for storage, with the expectation that some future government will cough up the cash to actually bury the waste securely enough to survive intact on geological timescales. Would you seriously trust Taiwan’s culture to deliver anything better than the current best practice, which (as far as I can tell) is the USA? They have trouble understanding that motor vehicles are dangerous, and you can’t even see radiation.

The report I linked to was measuring very low levels, but they were steadily increasing, and they were isotopes most likely to have originated from a fission process. That suggests a leak.

Out of sight, out of mind is not the same thing as “safe”. You’ve been living in Taiwan too long :wink:[/quote]

I took a class from a professor that worked at Hanford most of his career. He said the situation there is a disaster. The wiki article points to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanford_Site So much for best practice…

I hope things are better in Taiwan, but I doubt it; incompetency seems to be the name of the game with anything related to the environment. Look into the situation with the plant they are trying to build now – foreign experts came in; the Taiwanese kicked them out thinking they could build the plant; they were not able to; foreign experts were called back. I hope the waste site hasn’t been a Taiwanese project from day one…

23

Unfortunately, the USA’s best practice seems to be to ship nuclear waste across the pond to the UK where it is dealt with properly at Sellafield. As I understand it, the UK seems to have a good cash flow coming in from this kind of industry. I don’t agree with it, and I certainly don’t agree with shipping nuclear waste across oceans. I think the waste is from power plants AND from the manufacture of nuclear weapons.

That’s right. You never know.

24

Hearsay and speculation. If we are going to castigate people we should have facts to back it up. Ed’s book was a great read but he often unfairly jumped the gun on conclusions.

Not that I believe the waste material that it is correctly stored there myself and I also have ethical issues with it, but you have to provide more evidence to back these claims up.

We hear there is a ‘leak’. This is meaningless. What is the isotope? Are they shortlived or longlived? What is the concentration? How far is the material detected off site? Is it continuing or as a result of an old ‘leak’. Has it been proven to come from that site or not? At what level is the given isotope concentration considered harmful? What are the harmful effects? How do they compare with riding a bike?

Lanyu island is not going to be invaded anytime soon, if it is it will be the Chinese. They have enough of their own nuclear waste. If anybody tried to get onto the island and then try to take the material offsite they would not get very far. And we do not know the security precautions on site.

25

Hans, that’s bloody scary. Since you’re still posting I assume it wasn’t something fatally toxic, but it easily could have been. WTF is going on when a passing waiguoren has to clean up a hazardous waste spill because every government agency who ought to be on the scene has [strike]Warcraft[/strike]more important things to deal with?[/quote]

This stuff is scary and should be publicized. Shame works pretty well here when it’s brought to light at the right time (i.e. a slow news day). Maybe a viral campaign with a “love Taiwan” or a “Come visit Taiwan” sign on the beach next to the garbage?

26

:smiley:

Look what I’ve done! I’m so silly. I should just keep my mouth shut about the bad things I see? I have bad things to say about my own country too. We have illegal waste problems in the UK too, the only difference is if you get caught.

I care very much about where I live. The good people of Taiwan are my friends and I feel so sorry for them. They are good to the bad people of Taiwan, too good. Any sort of littering should be dealt with, it’s a great disrespect to Taiwan to drop your litter and waste.

So to the haters of my post [to the OP’s thread];

Do you litter here in Taiwan?

If so – stop it, as I live here and I love the island. My heart is broken by the sheer scale of filth that is dropped and dumped on this small island. I do not dump any litter and nor does my Taiwanese family, it would be a disgrace on them their family name and most of all on the island – TAIWAN.

EDIT: In case you want to know how I deal with my waste/litter. All food waste is separated for the blue barrels. All recyclable items are washed/cleaned and give to our local recycler (who makes some money from it). Whatever is left sadly has to go in the bin lorry – we try to keep this to a minimum. I did exactly the same thing in the UK. It’s my duty to keep my use and waste to a minimum. If i’m out and have litter, most comes home with me and I’m always loathed to put things in general bins, but sometimes that happens.

27

Couldn’t have said it better, Steviebike.
This is not my country of origin, but it’s the country I’ve chosen to live in, and I care about it a great deal.
I’m not criticizing Taiwan, I’m criticizing the people who are disrespecting Taiwan, be they Taiwanese or foreign. It’s a lovely country, and the natural environment deserves respect.

28

Look what I’ve done! I’m so silly. I should just keep my mouth shut about the bad things I see? I have bad things to say about my own country too. We have illegal waste problems in the UK too, the only difference is if you get caught.

I care very much about where I live. The good people of Taiwan are my friends and I feel so sorry for them. They are good to the bad people of Taiwan, too good. Any sort of littering should be dealt with, it’s a great disrespect to Taiwan to drop your litter and waste.

So to the haters of my post [to the OP’s thread];

Do you litter here in Taiwan?

If so – stop it, as I live here and I love the island. My heart is broken by the sheer scale of filth that is dropped and dumped on this small island. I do not dump any litter and nor does my Taiwanese family, it would be a disgrace on them their family name and most of all on the island – Taiwan.

EDIT: In case you want to know how I deal with my waste/litter. All food waste is separated for the blue barrels. All recyclable items are washed/cleaned and give to our local recycler (who makes some money from it). Whatever is left sadly has to go in the bin lorry – we try to keep this to a minimum. I did exactly the same thing in the UK. It’s my duty to keep my use and waste to a minimum. If I’m out and have litter, most comes home with me and I’m always loathed to put things in general bins, but sometimes that happens.[/quote]

I agree. About public bins, any recyclables you put in will be picked out pretty quickly; a lot of people here make their living savaging…

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:astonished:

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:astonished:[/quote]

for recyclables, that is.

31

:astonished:[/quote]

for recyclables, that is.[/quote]

Bin savaging? Sounds like a cool idea for a movie.

In regards to the original topic - maybe Tainan/Anping is better? In my limited (maybe 10 times during the short time I’ve been in Taiwan) experience on the beaches, I don’t think I saw anything too terrible. I vaguely recall seeing a needle, but that might have been somewhere in Southeast Asia. It’s hard to say. Overall my experiences were quite pleasant. I’ve heard it used to be WAY worse in that area; a plethora of dead dogs and garbage bags.

32

I remember a story in 1988 about med waste in New Jersey. That was what immediately came to mind.

I just finished answering someone who has obviously had a bad time with some people here, and told them to face up since it happens everywhere. Here I am finding myself in agreement.

Across from where I live, they dump waste of some sort into the “river” and I have seen cops drive by and do nothing. Speaking of…in the parking lot, you can see them take naps. I have seen them give 14 year olds tickets for riding a scooter. I have never seen them actually do anything. My wife and I watched the aftermath of a somewhat serious accident. A cop drove by, uttered something and went on his way. My wife said he asked if anyone needed anything. He was told no so he left. Shortly after an ambulance came. The people left and the more damaged car remained where it sat, partially in the street, for 3 days.

The place I work, they openly break, violate, or otherwise have their way with a number of regulations (tax, labor, etc). I said openly, right? The fines are so small, it is actually cheaper to get one!

My wife insists there are laws here. I told her having laws is one thing. Anyone can have laws. Anyone can write laws. The trick is, enforcing them. Sounds like a Seinfeld sketch.

I have always wondered why they do not allow people to go swimming on the beaches. My wife and her brothers say it is too dangerous. Well, with hypos on the shore, yeah. Someone told me during martial law the beaches were mined. Well, that has came and gone. Living on an island and not being able to swim in the water surrounding it, is like living on a mountain and not being able to ski it or otherwise enjoy it. Or something like that.

The dogs here. Wow. It is really a sharp contrast. They either love them or hate them.

I am told that under the Chen administration, the government did its job. At least more than now. Government workers actually worked.

It will take 20 or 30 years? Martial law ended over 20 years ago. I think change will take at least 2 generations, maybe 3. Because change will cost money. Lets see, clean the beaches, build some hotels, redo the sewers, clean the air and waterways, redo some of the infrastructure, enforce laws…going to take a lot of time. Too much corruption, too many palms getting greased. I change my mind. If change happens at all, maybe 100 years.

But I really love it here. Seriously.

33

The beaches are always full of different kinds of goodies. This is a great time for medical waste, bottles, furniture and mateless shoes on on the beach that we frequent. In winter, dead pufferfish show up by the thousands, and in early spring, cuttlefish shells are abundant. Large chunks of styrofoam, driftwood and other delights are in the forecast for the next three months or so. My favourite time is around April and May, when you can find huge, fully intact nautilus shells. You can find the rubbish items year round, but some things seem more prevalent at some times than at others; must have something to do with the currents. Just watch where you step… and breathe, apparently.

34

I will add some of my favorites spied on the coast – in addition to dead domestic animals I have seen lightbulbs (hundreds), rusted kitchen appliances (dozens), whole crates of fruit, all kinds of clothing from socks to overcoats, an entire dumped cement truck load, a cargo container, a burned-out Suzuki Vitara, several wrecked fishing boats, and a cargo ship.

35

My favourites are the two obligatory items that are found dumped in ANY waterway or coastline, anywhere on the planet:

  • A bottle crate (I’ve never seen these being used in Taiwan, although I assume there must be such a thing).
  • An old toilet.

I’m sure every government has a department that makes sure these are present, if some local doesn’t oblige.

36

Monkey, that last post was certainly off the wall.

The cargo ship can’t be taken seriously though…except… I’ve seen exactly the same thing myself.

The most interesting things i have seen on a beach are:

A dead sea turtle.
Half a dead man.
Some packets of something from Russia.
A bag of rotting frogs.
A dead pig - this one was on the beach at Chi Chi Island in KHH where people were swimming, oblivious to the large hunk of pork floating around in amongst them.

Ambergris - and if you’re lucky, I’l tell you where to find it. :sunglasses:

37

Yeah it wasn’t exactly on the beach. I saw it off the north coast early this year. Maybe it’s still there for all I know.

Pretty sure it was this:

chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/nati … /4-die.htm

38

Yep - we’re talking about the same one. They were just about finished dismantling it last week - there was only part of the hull left. There are a couple of life suits still strewn over the beach from the wreck. It was pretty much on the beach as I managed to get onto it.

And the sea turtle:

39

In the wake of Ho-hai-yan Rock Fest in Gongliao over the weekend:

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That’s disgraceful.