Let’s all be like hippies (you too, Fred 
) and mellow out… its Friday, folks! 
Oh come on, are you telling me none of you laughed at the video? I did. I admit it’s puerile and I’m surprised Greenpeace created that ad (if they really did). But I laughed and I’m sure many others would do the same.
I also believe it accomplishes what ads are intended to accomplish – taking a complex issue and simplifying it through a short, snappy skit that sticks in people’s minds and, either consciously or subconsciously, influences their feelings on the subject.
I am genetically indisposed to ever becoming a hippy Tigerman. You must know that by now. But I get the drift and am ready to chill and hang with the hep cats, er… see what I mean… 
[quote=“Tigerman”]No doubt the folks who made that video have no problem criticizing Bush for his “political” stunt of landing on the aircraft carrier a while back… 
Tetsuo,
There is nothing wrong, per se, with being a hippie.[/quote]
No contradiction there. I don’t like bush OR adds like that no matter who they are about.
Let me get my head together.
That was one of Mitterand’s finer moments. Killing innocent civilians? 
Greenpeace has no problem encouraging its “granola crunchers” to spike trees. This has hurt, maimed, and killed hardworking loggers and affected the livelihoods of their families. What is the difference between the state-sponsored terrorism of the French sinking the “Rainbow Warrior” or crazed environmentalists spiking trees? Kiwis can sometimes be a little too self-righteous for my taste – puts them in league with the Canadians 
That was one of Mitterand’s finer moments. Killing innocent civilians? Greenpeace has no problem encouraging its “granola crunchers” to spike trees. This has hurt and killed hardworking loggers. What is the difference between the state-sponsored terrorism of the French sinking the “Rainbow Warrior” or crazed environmentalists spiking trees?[/quote]
The difference is that no one disputes the bombing of the Rainbow Warrier was state sponsored, but your allegation that Greenpeace encourages people to spike trees is complete BS. Unless you produce evidence to back up that allegation we can all agree it’s completely false.
That was one of Mitterand’s finer moments. Killing innocent civilians? Greenpeace has no problem encouraging its “granola crunchers” to spike trees. This has hurt and killed hardworking loggers. What is the difference between the state-sponsored terrorism of the French sinking the “Rainbow Warrior” or crazed environmentalists spiking trees?[/quote]
The difference is that no one disputes the bombing of the Rainbow Warrier was state sponsored, but your allegation that Greenpeace encourages people to spike trees is complete BS. Unless you produce evidence to back up that allegation we can all agree it’s completely false.[/quote]
To me, spiking a tree is simply the inoculation of the tree against a fatal disease
Captain Paul Watson
Co-Founder/Greenpeace Foundation (1972)
Co-Founder/Greenpeace International (1979)
To me, spiking a tree is simply the inoculation of the tree against a fatal disease
Captain Paul Watson
Co-Founder/Greenpeace Foundation (1972)
Co-Founder/Greenpeace International (1979)[/quote]
[quote]In 1977, Watson resigned from the Greenpeace Foundation (some accounts say he was expelled), over disagreements over tactics. That same year, he founded his own group, the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society. . .
Paul Watson has been singled out for criticism by the wise use movement, which has denounced him as an ecoterrorist. Some former colleagues in Greenpeace have likewise distanced themselves from him. In an interview with the Los Angeles Times, Jim Bohlen, one of the founders of Greenpeace, said: “I’ve known the guy [Watson] for 15 years, and he’s absolutely insane, out of his mind.”
[/quote]
To me, spiking a tree is simply the inoculation of the tree against a fatal disease
Captain Paul Watson
Co-Founder/Greenpeace Foundation (1972)
Co-Founder/Greenpeace International (1979)[/quote]
[quote]In 1977, Watson resigned from the Greenpeace Foundation (some accounts say he was expelled), over disagreements over tactics. That same year, he founded his own group, the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society. . .
Paul Watson has been singled out for criticism by the wise use movement, which has denounced him as an ecoterrorist. Some former colleagues in Greenpeace have likewise distanced themselves from him. In an interview with the Los Angeles Times, Jim Bohlen, one of the founders of Greenpeace, said: “I’ve known the guy [Watson] for 15 years, and he’s absolutely insane, out of his mind.”
[/quote]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Watson[/quote]
Sure, these days Greenpeace disavows terrorism. Its become “corporatized” and marketed like “soap flakes.”
However, look at the early people in the organization, who pioneered “tree spiking” and you will see the that fruit doesn’t fall too far from the tree – in this case Greenpeace.
Does it?
Oh, I see, you’re now changing your position. it doesn’t encourage tree-spiking but you now claim some members of the organization in the past advocated tree-spiking (in particular, Paul Watson, who was evicted from the organization due to a difference of opinion re tactics) and therefore the organization must be bad. Well that makes sense. :loco:
If I ever think of joining any organization I’ll be sure to check out the history of all past and present members of the group, so as to avoid sullying my own reputation.
I didn’t put a timeline on this did I? In the past, Greenpeace members have advocated spiking – this is a fact. I guess, for clarity’s sake, I should have written “in the past, members of Greenpeace have agreed with the principle of spiking trees and possibly even encouraged people to do it.”
[quote=“Mother Theresa”]
Oh, I see, you’re now changing your position. it doesn’t encourage tree-spiking but you now claim some members of the organization in the past advocated tree-spiking and therefore the organization must be bad. Well that makes sense. :loco: [/quote]
I’m saying that Greenpeace usually works inside of the law, but they have been known on many occassions to “break the law” and take more radical measures. The line between civil disobedience and terrorism is grey. Do you think forcibly boarding a cargo vessel carrying Brazilian wood to Florida, blockading a U.S. naval base, ramming a ship into the French sailboat competing in the 2003 Americas Cup, and breaking into the central control building of a nuclear power station in England is terrorism? Many people would think so – even the Danes. gmwatch.org/archive2.asp?arcid=5240
[quote=“Mother Theresa”]
If I ever think of joining any organization I’ll be sure to check out the history of all past and present members of the group, so as to avoid sullying my own reputation.[/quote]
I think this is common when joining any organization, don’t you?
That’s really classy of Chewycorns joking about and defending a French terrorist attack on NZ in which an innocent bystander was killed.
I can just imagine the reaction if someone here were to suggest that those killed in the 911 attacks got what was coming to them. :wanker:
Brian
Hey, chill out!!! I was joking with the “Mitterand” comment. However, I think the Kiwi government used the tradgedy for their own purposes. And, like my previous posts have mentioned, Greenpeace is hardly a “clean marine” organization. Their tactics have hurt lots of people. People who are involved with Greenpeace know that such controversial activism can be dangerous. It is terrible what happened – especially since it was an innocent bystander. Still, the incident has been blown out of proportion IMHO.
Both the current French government and Greenpeace are wankers as far as I’m concerned 
Remember Truman’s quote about the Germans and Russians in WW2? 
[quote=“Chewycorns”]Hey, chill out!!! I was joking with the “Mitterand” comment. However, I think the Kiwi government used the tradgedy for their own purposes. And, like my previous posts have mentioned, Greenpeace is hardly a “clean marine” organization. Their tactics have hurt lots of people as my previous post has just mentioned. People who are involved with Greenpeace know that such controversial activism can be dangerous. It is terrible what happened – but it was also blown out of proportion.
Both the current French government and Greenpeace are wankers as far as I’m concerned [/quote]Some say that about 911.
[quote=“Matchstick_man”][quote=“Chewycorns”]Hey, chill out!!! I was joking with the “Mitterand” comment. However, I think the Kiwi government used the tradgedy for their own purposes. And, like my previous posts have mentioned, Greenpeace is hardly a “clean marine” organization. Their tactics have hurt lots of people as my previous post has just mentioned. People who are involved with Greenpeace know that such controversial activism can be dangerous. It is terrible what happened – but it was also blown out of proportion.
Both the current French government and Greenpeace are wankers as far as I’m concerned [/quote]Some say that about 911.[/quote]
Wankers? 9-11? Yes, the terrorists behind 9-11 are wankers. Thanks for stating the obvious. :bravo: 
Any actual incidents of tree-spiking by environmentalists having caused a single injury actually recorded? The only recorded incident I’ve heard of for an injury was from a spiking done by a local landowner who was pissed off about what clear-cutting was going to do to his property values. Even then, it was apparently at a sawmill without proper protective shields for its workers installed and which had a prior bad history on worker safety issues.
Keep in mind that most sawmills are highly automated these days, with proper protective shields and guards for the workers.
Trees, even without spikes being added, normally have stones and sometimes bits of metal in them (barbed wire, metal fence posts, cannonballs, etc.)
We’ll be having some trees cut down this year from our property, but given as how we’ll be selling the lumber for our own gain we don’t expect to have any trees spiked by environmentalists or any injuries.
Getting back to the video, I was surprised they were able to find somebody who could do Blair’s voice and mannerisms so well.
[quote=“mofangongren”]Any actual incidents of tree-spiking by environmentalists having caused a single injury actually recorded? The only recorded incident I’ve heard of for an injury was from a spiking done by a local landowner who was pissed off about what clear-cutting was going to do to his property values. Even then, it was apparently at a sawmill without proper protective shields for its workers installed and which had a prior bad history on worker safety issues.
Keep in mind that most sawmills are highly automated these days, with proper protective shields and guards for the workers.
Trees, even without spikes being added, normally have stones and sometimes bits of metal in them (barbed wire, metal fence posts, cannonballs, etc.)
We’ll be having some trees cut down this year from our property, but given as how we’ll be selling the lumber for our own gain we don’t expect to have any trees spiked by environmentalists or any injuries.
Getting back to the video, I was surprised they were able to find somebody who could do Blair’s voice and mannerisms so well.[/quote]
Tree spikes have caused 3 documented
deaths and scores of major and minor injuries. That is two more deaths than from the Rainbow Warrior incident.
Look, you’re getting off the point MFGR. Spiking trees because they don’t agree with logging is wrong, not to mention illegal. No wonder the loggers beat the shit out of these guys when they stumble upon them in the woods.
Those loggers couldn’t care less about the politics; they’re just very hard working men and women doing what they can to get by.
I don’t agree with the French blowing up the GP ship, and I don’t agree with spiking trees. I also don’t agree with people who do things that intentionally harm innocent people…nor their apologists.
Next thing you’ll say is that they mark the trees that have been spiked…blah blah blah…
horse
fecal
matter
Is there any documentation to go along with these documented deaths? I’m just curious on this point.
I tried to find info – one of the non-environmentalist stories referred to an Australian incident in which one of Captain Cook’s cannonballs had lodged itself into a tree that was subsequently cut down. Throughout anywhere a war has taken place, there must be quite a few trees bearing scrap iron.