Sinn Fein / IRA under pressure

Don’t know if people have been following this but there seems to be a new dynamic in Northern Ireland at the moment. A good summary ishere

Sinn Fein is coming under increasing pressure to on a number of fronts due to the IRA killing of a republican in a bar fight. The victim’s sister’s have been invited to the White House for St. Patrick’s Day, while Gerry Adams has been pretty much cold shouldered by anyone and everyone. Even Ted Kennedy and New York Republican Senator Peter King are giving him grief. The IRA is feeling the heat and is evermore being characterised as a nothing more than a criminal gang. They have also scored what must be the biggest own goal in PR history by telling the victim’s sisters that the IRA was prepared to shoot those responsible!

Here’s hoping the pressure keeps up after Paddy’s day.

This was one of America’s biggest shameful moments. The fact is that US citizens and organizations (most Democrat) donated substantial sums of money and provided arms to these terrorists and criminals. We did not like what happened to us on 911. Think of the decades of bombs that were made possible from American sources in Ireland, Northern Ireland and England. We ARE responsible for this. It is up to us to pressure these thugs to reform. It will be our way of paying back those British citizens whose lives or livelihoods were destroyed because of US.

You could start by keeping Gerry Adams in the US or sending him to Guantanamo. We don’t want him. Just in case I seem bias here, should Ian Paisley ever visit the US, please feel free to keep him too or at least incarcerate him somewhere well away from the colour orange.

BroonArmagh

[quote=“BroonAle”] should Ian Paisley ever visit the US, please feel free to keep him too or at least incarcerate him somewhere well away from the colour orange.
[/quote]

I’d be tempted to make him do line dancing - apparently an absolute abomination to true non-papists like big IP :laughing:

[quote=“BroonAle”]

We don’t want him.

BroonArmagh[/quote]

Who are we? Obliviously not the same 12% of people who voted recently for Sinn Fein in a by-election. Which was up 3% on their previous vote in that constituency. news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4344921.stm

Please be careful what you state about Irish politics, North or South of the border. Ian Paisley has his place in Irish politics too, although he may seem hardlined, he does represent the people that voted for him, the same people you and I must live and work beside everyday.

double post

[quote=“butcher boy”][quote=“BroonAle”] should Ian Paisley ever visit the US, please feel free to keep him too or at least incarcerate him somewhere well away from the colour orange.
[/quote]

I’d be tempted to make him do line dancing - apparently an absolute abomination to true non-papists like big IP :laughing:[/quote]

Sadly I can confirm for you that members of his flock do indeed engage in a form of dancing very similar in form to the General Synod of the Church of Ireland being anally electrocuted to the soporific tones of Big Tom and the Mainliners. (I must take my medicine)

Amazing isn’t it that the IRA kill lots of people over the years, run drugs, train FARC, kneecap joyriders, and the Yanks love them. Then, lo and behold, they rob a bank, and beat somebody to death in a pub and the Americans don’t like them any more.

Can anyone explain this to me? I mean, Gerry’s not going to the White House because some bloke got beaten to death in a pub? You’ve got to be having me on.

There must be a few “Irish American” IRA supporters on Forumosa - so what’s going on? The 'Ra has been robbing shit and beating people to death for years - what’s special about this one? We have two major IRA supporters, one Republican, and one Democrat, saying they should disband. Why? Why now?

Genuinely confusing, because I always thought the American lobby was simply living out a little fantasy where they got revenge for their ancestors having been shat on by the British and that is was really just a very simplistic freedom fighter thing: the poor Irish peasant fighting the rapacious and evil British colonialists. Now, something as childish as that has survived years of evidence of murdering, raping, drug-running, extortion, prostitution, and so on - so it’s a fairly robust fantasy, probably because it’s so simple. So what burst the bubble?

[quote=“hexuan”]Amazing isn’t it that the IRA kill lots of people over the years, run drugs, train FARC, kneecap joyriders, and the Yanks love them. Then, lo and behold, they rob a bank, and beat somebody to death in a pub and the Americans don’t like them any more.

Can anyone explain this to me? I mean, Gerry’s not going to the White House because some bloke got beaten to death in a pub? You’ve got to be having me on.

There must be a few “Irish American” IRA supporters on Forumosa - so what’s going on? The 'Ra has been robbing shit and beating people to death for years - what’s special about this one? We have two major IRA supporters, one Republican, and one Democrat, saying they should disband. Why? Why now?

Genuinely confusing, because I always thought the American lobby was simply living out a little fantasy where they got revenge for their ancestors having been shat on by the British and that is was really just a very simplistic freedom fighter thing: the poor Irish peasant fighting the rapacious and evil British colonialists. Now, something as childish as that has survived years of evidence of murdering, raping, drug-running, extortion, prostitution, and so on - so it’s a fairly robust fantasy, probably because it’s so simple. So what burst the bubble?[/quote]

Couldn’t agree more. Obviously I cannot say too much as Saintone1 has issued a warning to be careful on commenting on Irish politics as the Protestant and Catholic extremists I live and work with may take umbrage. As for what burst the bubble? perhaps it was Fred Smith afeared that any failure to condemn the IRA may raise questions over the credibility of his argument that all that America does is pure. Though he should be commended for admitting America’a shameful support of terrorism in Ireland and the UK mainland.

BroonArmalite

But condemation of terrorism is not applied retroactively… freedom fighters and governments were just that before 911… post 911 these have evolved into terrorists, and terrorists states or Axis of evil, depending on who is defining them at thet moment in time

so any act that the IRA, UDA, Palestinians, ETA etc committe post 911 are terrorist acts. The US cannot accomdate or welcome these people or associates.
Attaching terrorist as a adjective to a group, person or act, is not based on what is committed but by the person or group that committs it
So if a member of the IRA shot a cop, it would be a terrorist act on the part of the IRA/Sinn Fein, but if a soldier shot a civilian in lets say Iraq, it would be defined as a soldier gone crazy or an accident.

Must say that their point though taking care of the people that shot the Mc Carthy guy was stupid, and could I not say that both the Irish and Britsh governments are playing politics with these guy’s murder?

PS While I can say I do not necessarily oppose or support any of the following groups IRA, UDA, UVF, INLA, Sinn Fein, the Unionists; I can say without them and their inclusion, the current state of Northern Ireland could not be reached.
But at the same time is it not time to move on, as some or all of these have become outdated and are relics of the past?

I would tend to agree, and if we put excessive pressure on Adams and the IRA simply tell him to get stuffed if he suggests they disband, well who do you deal with then?

I wonder though about this incident as 911 was quite a while ago and it seems this incident in the Short Strand, and the bank robbery have the potential to derail whatever piss-poor peace process there is. Much better to keep all the extremists on board than go back to the mutual intransigence of the 70s. It’s worth remembering (although I know you know TNT) that it is necessary to have someone like Adams who has sway with the IRA rather than have someone perhaps a bit more palatable who has none. If he hadn’t at one point been “rear gunner on a milk float” he wouldn’t be worth talking to. But my point is not really the realities of NI politics but the American perception.

Is the crucial point that Irish Americans used to think that the population of IRA-controlled areas were by and large happy with the way the IRA was running things, but have now discovered that many are not?

Thanks for this thread guys. Very interesting to see what other people’s points of view are.

I was born and brought up in Belfast and had to help my dad check under his car every morning before he gave me a lift to the school bus stop. Why? Cos he was a soldier or a policeman? No. He was a photocopier repairman. But you know, police stations, etc., have photocopiers, and he would fix those if his boss sent him there. That made him a “legitimate target” (never mind the fact that the Sinn Fein HQ also used photocopiers).

In the 70s I used to hear bombs go off many nights, and there was a helicopter “parked” in the sky all night every night. Soldiers on the streets with guns checking you out, etc., etc., etc.

I, like many others in N.I. had to live through all this (yet get called terrorists wherever we went), and I for one am SO HAPPY that something is happening that might help to make the situation better.

That said, I cried when I first heard about the “Good Friday Agreement”, not knowing at the time that it would all fall apart. However, it did get the ball rolling, albeit slowly, and the latest developments have helped give it another little push. At least it’s in the right direction.

There’s no point blaming Americans, the British Government, or even a lot of the eejits that have killed in Northern Ireland in the past, cos that sort of thing just makes it all kick off again. A lot of my generation now look forward to the future, and the recent events sparked off by the McCartney sisters (He was stabbed, not shot, BTW) are a good sign that people are more and more inclined to stand up and fight for peace. Long may it continue.

Thanks for listening. I feel better now :laughing:

I don’t know any Americans who support the IRA. I’m wondering if this impression is aimed at Americans in general or politicians and popular media?

If it’s the latter, the quick about-face and “bubble bursting” makes all the sense in the world. Politics is all about looking like you are passionate about the issues that are popular and distancing yourself from anything that may smack of public outrage.

It’s not that America changes, it’s just the public face of media and politics.

But then, maybe there are a lot of American PLA sympathizers. I only personally know a fraction of a percentage of all Americans. :wink: