Smart and stubborn

Life Dating & Relationships
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This is not really about dating. But I guess it belongs in the same kind of touchy-feely realm.

Has anyone noticed a tendency in smart, independent Taiwanese women to be incredibly stubborn? Like when you suggest something to them, be it the quickest road route to somewhere or an alternative way of looking at things, they’ll just say “No. My way’s best.” And if you try to press the point, they’ll get mad or refuse to discuss things any more.

I have several friends who are like this. Intelligent and thoughtful, but very reluctant to consider any advice or contrary opinions.

I realise that this thread could very easily turn into an orgy of generalisations and complaints, but I hope it doesn’t. I’d just appreciate some thoughtful opinions on this phenomenon – if indeed it is a common phenomenon. Maybe it’s not just Taiwanese, and not just women. What do you think?

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You know my wife, it seems.

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It may be that the person has in fact already carefully considered the suggestion you have made and have previously decided against the same.

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[quote=“Tigerman”]It may be that the person has in fact already carefully considered the suggestion you have made and have previously decided against the same.[/quote]Possibly sometimes, but not usually. I’m not thinking of one person or one situation. I’m thinking of several people and quite a few different situations.

I am talking about quite a strong negative reaction to suggestions of how to do things, or alternative ways of looking at things. Perhaps it is a kind of psychological “defense mechanism”. The women I am thinking about have grown up in quite traditional families under very strong cultural expectations. Maintaining their independence has not been easy for them. I think that they are very wary of anything that could possibly look like someone telling them what to do or think, even if it is just a suggestion or an idea.

Anyway, judging from the limited number of responses it seems that not many other people have experienced this.

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No Joe, you are not alone. I can testify to having experienced the same in Taiwanese women, specificaly. It doesnt occur as much much in the Taiwanese males I know.

A specific example:

Taiwanese Female: “You should not leave that adapter plugged into the wall when your cell phone is not charging.”

Me: “Why? it isnt hurting anything”

Her: “You are wasting electricty”

Me: “The elctricty is not being wasted” and I then explained how an outlet works and that the flow of electricty is not being used when the dvice isnt charging.

Her: “I understand that, but just dont leave it plugged in, it cant be good and I dont like it”.

This is just a minor small example…there have been other occurances. I dont know if it is true for all Taiwanese females…its really not good to generalize, but for a few it is true.

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[quote=“derek1978”]No Joe, you are not alone. I can testify to having experienced the same in Taiwanese women, specificaly. It doesnt occur as much much in the Taiwanese males I know.

A specific example:

Taiwanese Female: “You should not leave that adapter plugged into the wall when your cell phone is not charging.”

Me: “Why? it isnt hurting anything”

Her: “You are wasting electricty”

Me: “The elctricty is not being wasted” and I then explained how an outlet works and that the flow of electricty is not being used when the dvice isnt charging.

Her: “I understand that, but just dont leave it plugged in, it can’t be good and I don’t like it”.

This is just a minor small example…there have been other occurances. I don’t know if it is true for all Taiwanese females…its really not good to generalize, but for a few it is true.[/quote]

I have to agree with your female friend in this instance. An adapter/charger does consume electrical power even if it’s not charging the cell phone. And the fact that even after your explanation, she still thinks that “it can’t be good” is a testament to the power of women’s intuition.

Perhaps these independent women don’t listen because they have figured out that us guys only think we know more than we actually do. :wink:

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[quote=“sjcma”]I have to agree with your female friend in this instance. An adapter/charger does consume electrical power even if it’s not charging the cell phone. And the fact that even after your explanation, she still thinks that “it can’t be good” is a testament to the power of women’s intuition.[/quote]Yeah…and using your headlight during the day wastes gasoline…

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Just remember, a woman is never too smart or stubborn to get a good spanking!

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Not to turn this into an electrical power discussion, but if you unplug (or at least turn off at the wall), your electrical appliances, you can actually save a bit of power over a period of time. This was suggested by the NZ electrical company some time ago and my family did try it, and our power bill was noticeably less.

Here is a report from an experiment done at Berkeley, too:
http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2001/02/09_energ.html

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Derek 1978, thanks for the response. Perhaps you’ve experienced a similar thing to what I tried, not very well, to describe.

I’m afraid that sjcma and Asiababy are right about the specific example of the adapter, though! If you touch the adapter while it’s plugged in, even when it’s not charging your phone, it will probably feel a little warm. That shows it’s using some electricity.

[quote=“asiababy”]Not to turn this into an electrical power discussion,[/quote]Don’t worry! Electrical power is more interesting than my original topic anyway. The thread will probably end up in temp but never mind…

[quote=“asiababy”]…if you unplug (or at least turn off at the wall), your electrical appliances, you can actually save a bit of power over a period of time. This was suggested by the NZ electrical company some time ago and my family did try it, and our power bill was noticeably less.

Here is a report from an experiment done at Berkeley, too:
http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2001/02/09_energ.html[/quote]Yes, I’ve heard about this, too. And a further incentive to unplug or at least switch off at the wall is that apparently quite a lot of house fires start with appliances that aren’t unplugged or switched off at the wall.

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It’s more a question of maturity and basic common sense. “Some” girls in Taiwan lack a wee bit of both. I had the turn your headlight off because it wastes gas conversation with my girlfriend many times, when we went to the mechanic to get an oil change I asked the mechanic if running the light on during the day wasted gas, he laughed at me. He explained that the light drew power from the battery, not the gas tank. My GF was in shock and said three little words that men seldom hear “You were right”…

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your GF should have said, “But it can’t be good!”

and her intuition would have been right, cause it shortens the lifespan of the bulbs…

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[quote=“joesax”]Derek 1978, thanks for the response. Perhaps you’ve experienced a similar thing to what I tried, not very well, to describe.

I’m afraid that sjcma and Asiababy are right about the specific example of the adapter, though! If you touch the adapter while it’s plugged in, even when it’s not charging your phone, it will probably feel a little warm. That shows it’s using some electricity.

[quote=“asiababy”]Not to turn this into an electrical power discussion,[/quote]Don’t worry! Electrical power is more interesting than my original topic anyway. The thread will probably end up in temp but never mind…

[quote=“asiababy”]…if you unplug (or at least turn off at the wall), your electrical appliances, you can actually save a bit of power over a period of time. This was suggested by the NZ electrical company some time ago and my family did try it, and our power bill was noticeably less.

Here is a report from an experiment done at Berkeley, too:
http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2001/02/09_energ.html[/quote]Yes, I’ve heard about this, too. And a further incentive to unplug or at least switch off at the wall is that apparently quite a lot of house fires start with appliances that aren’t unplugged or switched off at the wall.[/quote]

More on the tangent…

What’s this “switched off at the wall” thing?

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:roflmao: More please! Can we make this entire thread a “classic thread”?

What’s next? “My wive is so stubborn, she always wants to discuss about leaving the fridge open! I told her a million times it will cool down the room, but she doesn’t want to listen! Must be a Taiwanese thing! They just don’t have any common sense.”

Sorry, joesax, I was thinking along the lines of traditional families and fathers who don’t tolerate dissent, too, but maybe the solution is quite simple:

GFs/wives: right!
you guys: wrong!

:wink:

BTW, switching your headlights on uses 150W-200W which translates to an increase in fuel consumption of about 0,2l per 100km.

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[quote=“derek1978”]No Joe, you are not alone. I can testify to having experienced the same in Taiwanese women, specificaly. It doesnt occur as much much in the Taiwanese males I know.
[/quote]

Wait! Aren’t you still FOB??!?!?!!? :laughing:

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It’s a sophisticated British thing. As you’re from the wrong side of the pond no-one expects you to understand such concepts. :wink:

(Our wall sockets have an on/off switch)

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[quote=“Grasshopper”]
It’s more a question of maturity and basic common sense. “Some” girls in Taiwan lack a wee bit of both. I had the turn your headlight off because it wastes gas conversation with my girlfriend many times, when we went to the mechanic to get an oil change I asked the mechanic if running the light on during the day wasted gas, he laughed at me. He explained that the light drew power from the battery, not the gas tank. My GF was in shock and said three little words that men seldom hear “You were right”…[/quote]

Yes, the headlights gets its electricity from the battery. But have you ever thought where does the battery get its charge? Ever heard of an alternator? It would appear your girlfriend has plenty of basic common sense.

We could debate the physics and engineering behind this matter further but it shouldn’t be done in this thread or this forum. You can add your two cents here: http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?p=576447#576447

For those that have argued with their girlfriends/wives with righteous indignation over this “headlights/gasoline” issue, how many will go back and apologize once they find out that they are indeed in the wrong. :noway:

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I’ve been told by my wife not to put anything that’s even remotely warm into the fridge because I’ll break the fridge…

…alrighty…

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[quote=“joesax”]Has anyone noticed a tendency in smart, independent Taiwanese women to be incredibly stubborn? Like when you suggest something to them, be it the quickest road route to somewhere or an alternative way of looking at things, they’ll just say “No. My way’s best.” And if you try to press the point, they’ll get mad or refuse to discuss things any more.

I have several friends who are like this. Intelligent and thoughtful, but very reluctant to consider any advice or contrary opinions.[/quote]

You just described me perfectly, even though I’m not female or Taiwanese. In my case it stems from the perfectly reasonable conclusion that most people know far less than they think they do and will make bad decisions on my behalf if I let them. The comments from people who think they can get free electricity are a case in point.

I have become a lot worse since coming to Taiwan, because there’s a very different set of expectations. If someone offers to do something for me, or help me in any way at all, I am likely to be somewhat unreceptive. I’ve had too many crap lunches, wrong directions, non-working solutions and shoddy goods bought for me to ever trust anybody to do anything properly. The only exception is when we’ve been through a long process of educating people to understand that I really do know best, and given them a highly detailed specification with no room for variation. Even then…

I try to reason with people, and occasionally they will actually reason back - and I do change my mind sometimes if they make sense - but for the most part it’s safe to say that people are poorly-informed, don’t reason clearly, and make bad decisions. They don’t like being told that they’re wrong either, especially about something they feel qualified to know more about than the other person - such as how things work in Taiwan (even the electricity) by a foreigner.

Another thing to bear in mind is that in Taiwan you don’t question authority, and the process of enquiry is not taught. There is one right answer, dictated from above, and that’s that. Having accepted the right answer, your lady friend is in a difficult position if you challenge her. She’s probably never though about whether her belief is really right or not, and may not be equipped to analyse it through with you. (What do most people know about electricity anyway?) You’re asking her to question authority, go through a reasoning process she’s not comfortable with, to arrive at a ‘truth’ about a topic she doesn’t really know a lot, and potentially lose face by admitting that she’s wrong.

Just refusing to discuss it is a lot easier.