Songs in the classroom

Goodness knows that educators will forever argue over the best and most appropriate methods. A good, creative teacher will come up with activites that are effective no matter what their underlying philosophies and whether or not they use songs. And I just don’t think there are any one-size-fits-all methods.

Another point here is the difference between an all-day English or bilingual kindergarten versus three to four hours of “instruction” a week. The role of songs would be different, I think.

Personally, I think songs are useful at all levels. In my elementary school, we learned some songs both in English and in Spanish. So, we knew the meaning of the songs but it wasn’t translated word-for-word for us. In junior high, I chose to study Spanish instead of other languages because it seemed less “foreign” due to my early exposure. As I learned more, I could still remember words of the songs in Spanish and translate them for myself. My junior high Spanish teacher didn’t teach songs, but my sister’s teacher did. My sis sang the songs around the house and I picked them up. They helped to reinforce vocabulary, phrases and verb forms. I’m by no means fluent in Spanish. But what little I learned, I learned well, and I think the songs helped.

As I teacher, I’ve taught songs. I figure if I go to sleep with the lyrics running through my head over and over, chances are so will my students. That’s why I don’t like teaching very young students. I can’t stand having kiddy songs on constant loop in my mind. One problem with song usage in some kindy programs is that they teach a new song almost every class and try to cram in all of the new lesson points. Some teachers just plow through the songs like any other drill. Songs can be useful but they do need to be part of a larger curriculum.

A great site for songs: kididdles.com

I do like songs too. But songs are not the beginning and the end, they should be included but not be the basis of almost every lesson.

Your analogy is bizarre and more than a little troubling. :shock:

Songs are useful because:

  1. They are fun - children learn more if they are not afraid fo the learning process and are enjoying themselves
  2. They help with memory - association of music and rhythym with language
  3. They help with intonation - especially important at buxiban (grade 1+) level

I remember learning songs at school right through to Grade 8 or so.

It’s not song-and-dance clown routine. We’re talkign about kids learning the songs, not about the teacher entertaining them.

I disagree with learning writing in kindergarten for the following reasons:

  1. It’s not necessary
  2. They learn writing slowly at kindergarten level (average students) but very fast in Grade 1, so the most efficient use of time is to teach them starting in Grade 1.
  3. An immersion kindergarten should try and modelt he learning of a second language on the order of learning of a native language - oral understanding - oral production - written understanding - written production

In New Zealand, which has the highest literacy rate in the world and consistently scores near the top in international studies of primary language and reading competency, no writing is taught until Grade 1, and even then it’s introduced slowly.

I believe in kindergarten, kids should learn a basic familiarity with the letters, and perhaps some basic phonics and how the letters go together, but no more than that.

I find it disturbing that competition between schools has meant that ‘writing ability’ has become a way that consumers (parents) are judging between kindergartens (presumably because when shopping ofr ht ebest school they don’t know any way of judging quality). “After graduating from this kindergarten, your child wll be able to write paragraph, but if you go to the kindergarten down the road he’ll only be writing sentences, and if he goes to Brian’s kindergarten it’ll only be letters or words! Huh!”

(Maybe you should change the title of this thread to ‘songs vs writing’ or something).

Brian

We instructed our kids’ kindergarden to stop the reading/writing with homeworks etc, and focus more on fun and play. The teachers and other parents were very upset about this, and would not stop the practice. We then asked our kids to relax in those classes and ignore any homework given - spend the time playing instead.

The kids had a though start in the first grade, becauses they had to catch up with the reading and writing skills, which their classmates already mastered. The teachers (shame on them) prpgressed the classess according to the reading/writing ability of the best kids.
Anyway, at the end of the first year in primary school, with frustrating below average grades, our kids caught up with the rest of the class in reading/writing, in addition to excel in sports, creativness and having a lot of friends (social skills).

Most of my childhood friends have done pretty well in life, even if we were not taught reading/writing before age 7, and introduced to English at age 10. Our English teacher always stressed during the firts couple of years that we should not focus too much on the grammar, pronounciation or dialect (UK, US, Aus Etc.). Our main task was to try to understand and to be understood.

I am so opposed to the educational system with work, work and no play, even in kindergarden here. Kids are supposed to explore and learn by playing, not memorizing, repeating and tests.

IMO, creative, motoric and social skills development are more imporant than beeing able to write paragraphs with the correct spelling, grammar and structure - not only when you are kid, but for the rest of your life. You can refine your paragraph writing skills at a much later age.

Let the children sing and play.
The reality of life will come soon enough.

Best regards
Not a teacher - just a concerned parent.

I work inside the system and am a parent.
I would never want to subject my child to the education system here, but the catch is that the same education system will be paying for my sons education. Damn it.

This is the precise reason why I am looking for something back home in NZ that can give me the kind of lifestyle that I have become accustomed to living. I would love to give my son everything that I grew up with in NZ - I didn’t have the Wiggles though.

The parents here are the cause of the problems, not the schools, however I do try to make my classes look like what the parents want but at the same time give the children what they really need. This is a difficult situation but at this stage it is working quite well and both myself and the parents are getting what they want.

It’s way too competetive out there.

I agree with the parent’s comments above, and I also see Boss Hogg’s dilemma. My husband works in Admin overseeing the English dept at my son’s school, but our son will probably be among the last in his class to read/write in English… he loves books and I’ve read to him since he was an infant, but our objectives are different (we want him to get comfortable with Chinese before we really push the English reading/writing).

My neighbor across the hall has two boys, one in junior high and one in high school. The eldest is only in the tenth grade but it’s been a very busy year for him, and the next two will be even busier. He’s excelling, but it’s just an awful lot of work. This is a Chinese family and even the parents don’t like seeing their boys spend so much of their time studying, but they feel like they just have no choice in Taiwan–there are so many people competing for the same schools and later, the same jobs.

I have met more than a few Chinese/Japanese/Korean parents who want very much to immigrate to the US for the more relaxed education system.

Durin’s Bane, I hope you don’t take any of this as a personal attack. I’ll give you credit for thinking ‘outside of the box’, it’s just interesting to see the different perspectives.

Songs are part of the curriculum at my school, and they assist me beautifully in my weekly lessons. The ‘song of the week’ coincides with the theme of the lessons for the week, and it is ususally chalk full of pertinent vocab that can be taught while singing and having fun. I do take issue with the grammar structure of some of the songs, but I address it with the director and get it changed when necessary.

Music is a wonderful tool that should be used in the classroom, especially with small children. They have many years ahead of them that will be nothing more then listless instruction.

braxtonhicks,

Oh no, I don’t take any of this personally, or seriously.

We have two kindys (and two language schools) and they have a pre-class singing activity in the courtyard for about 15 minutes every morning. And yes, the kids have stories and art and all the good stuff that little ones should have. We also try ask the kids to perform academically. Having fun and work is compatible. We ask the teachers of the xiao bans to sing some in class. But to make songs a part of the established curriculum is, and this is my personal opinion, a sure sign of a loser school. Kids can have fun in kindy while being pushed academically…and I can prove it. The kids in our kindys can speak with the best of them, conversation IS the most important thing to teach these students…phonics being #2. Writing is way down on the list. We must be doing something right because business is good and we are expanding.

Please remember, I have not instituted paragraph writing yet, and if I do I will make sure that the program is in line with what kids should get out of kindy. Heck I play with little metal men, running around pretending I am gakking monsters…I am the last person in the world to take fun and games out of life!

I have two sons (grade 1, grade 2) who go to public schools and I am very pleased with the quality of education they are receiving. This 9 year education plan is a change for the good. How many of you have seen the new methods for teaching math in grades 1 & 2? I do not ask my kids to get 100% on every test, I only ask of them to do their best. This I would ask even if they were studying in the States. Having kids study here or there doesn’t matter, it is the attitude that the parents take that will make or break the kid’s quality of instruction.

DB is correct.

Singing shouldn’t be part of the

Ouch…“to make songs a part of the established curriculum is, and this is my personal opinion, a sure sign of a loser school”…

So you’re saying that because a ‘song of the week’ is implemented into the curriculum that the kids could not possibly be pushed acedmemically in other areas? That’s a sweeping statement that in no way represents my school. Yes, we have fun, but believe me, my kids are pushed to the max. ONE song barely makes a dent in the weekly requirements of theses little souls.

Hogg-man is joking, of course. Unless he means singing The East is Red.
[b]
The East is red, the sun has risen,

China has made a Mao Zedong.

He creates fortune for the people,

Hu er hai yue, he’s the saviour of them all!

2

Chairman Mao loves the people,

He is our guiding leader,

Leading us forward,

Hu er hai yue, to develop New China!

3

The Communist Party is like the sun,

It brightens up everything it shines.

Where there is the Communist Party,

Hu er hai yue, people will be liberated![/b]

[quote=“Boss Hogg”]DB is correct.

Singing shouldn’t be part of the

DB wrote:

No I think you got my points well enough.

DB wrote:

I am not challenging your qualifications in the sense that I want to see a degree. You’ve convicned me with just your words that you are a caring responsible teacher. But I’d like to see something in your posts that shows you are aware of basic childhood development principals. For instance, please respond to my criticism of having kindergarten aged boys doing lenghty writing exercises when their small muscle co-ordination is not well developed.

[quote]“I think you are focusing on the wrong parts of language learning and at the wrong time. Intonation, phonics, conversation patterns.”

Man, that is so wrong…when is there a better time to teach phonics than at a young age? Also, number one rule of teaching ESL is to get the kids speaking. [/quote]

If there is a number one rule in ESL it would be to get the kids adjusted to the new langauge and cultural environment. And in all language educational theory speaking takes a big second to listening. Besides, were talking about EFL in Taiwan. By the way, how many hours are your students studying a week?

[quote]“You have to argue how your practises fit into the larger scheme of children’s emotional, physical and intellectual development.”

Well, my “practises” ask the kids to push the envelope on what they can accomplish. I have always thought that is a teacher’s responsibility. [/quote]

To what degree. Coaches push their female gymnists to the point that puberty is delayed. Have you ever read John Stuart Mill’s autobiography? A great case study of the effects of pushing a child to exceed.

I know we are conflating you and your friends school. I have a few differing views but overall I think your school is not a place I couldn’t work at. That said, you really ought to reconsider your remark on songs being for loser schools. It makes you sound like a crank (while your stress on phonics just makes you sound like someone I disagree with). :stuck_out_tongue:

Maoman wrote:

I hope your kidding. :imp:

Mucha Man,

I don’t think that writing 5 basic sentences is “lengthy”.

Don’t know much about ESL theory or early childhood development. I do know more than most about ESL practice and early childhhood development. Don’t care much for what “experts” say, I just go by what I see with my own eyes, a small bit of common sense, a shitload of experience, coupled with what the market demands.

Yes, you are right…I am a bit of a crank…too long between vacations. I apologize to all those who sing in the classroom. I sincerely hope that you all continue singing. I recommend Melody’s songbook and Max and Mousy. Great teaching materials…

Thing about singing is that if it turns your crank, then do it. If it works best for you, then do it. When it is all said and done, do the parents pay the loot? Because it is all about the money. How to get the parents to lay down the dosh is up to each individual school. And if parents pay for singing, then God bless 'em.

[quote=“Durins Bane”]Max and Mousy. Great teaching materials…
[/quote] Hee Hee Hee. Haa Haa Haa.

Oh, you’re an evil person. I had just gotten those songs out of my head after 4 years, and I never even taught them. I thought my oldest son’s daycare was the only place that used those.

Jeff wrote:

Are you kidding? Those books sell over 100,000 copies a year in Taiwan. They are still quite popular in the south.

[quote=“Mucha (Muzha) Man”]Jeff wrote:

Are you kidding? Those books sell over 100,000 copies a year in Taiwan. They are still quite popular in the south.[/quote]

Glad I got out when I did!