South African Teachers with Agent problems

Legal General Legal Matters
1

I debated whether to post this here or in Teaching in Taiwan. Since I want to discuss legal aspects of this, I think this is the more appropriate forum.

I have some acquaintances, all South Africans, who have been teaching English in Taiwan since January or February. Before coming to Taiwan, they signed contracts with a Taiwanese agent, Maggie, and paid a fee upfront.

After arriving, they were farmed out to a Taiwanese man named Albert, who has been their contact/boss/agent since they arrived. To my knowledge, none of them has ever met Maggie, though Maggie and Albert seem to be in bed together.

Albert seems to be operating in the grey area between cram school boss and agent, though I suspect he is not a legal agent at all, just freelancing under the radar for the money. In short, Albert smiles and smiles and is a villian. When his teachers arrive, he sets them up with an apartment, finds them scooters, and sundry other things to get them on their feet, then withholds their pay until these accumulated debts are paid off. Not some of their pay, mind you – ALL of it. These teachers are in their fourth month of teaching, and have yet to see a cent. When they complain about living expenses, Albert generously offers to loan them more money.

At the end of their first month, most of the teachers I’ve talked to were told their paperwork wasn’t complete, and they would need to make visa runs – at their own expense. I’m a cram school owner myself, and it has NEVER taken me more than three weeks to complete visa and ARC paperwork for my teachers. Yet at least one of the teachers had to wait nearly three months to get her ARC, and then only after vociferous complaints. And of course, all the application fees were charged back to the teachers, together with any other expenses incurred on their behalf ( Albert has demonstrated a keen knack for contriving situations which seem to increase their debt to him).

None of these teachers has any signed contract with Albert. The only contracts they signed were with Maggie, whom they have never met.

The whole business is very slimy. Most of the teachers are working less than 90 hours a month, and have no idea when they will see their first pay check. When they inquire about their debts and their pay, Albert seems very dodgy.

My first question is about the legalities of the situation. Unquestionably, what Albert is doing is ethically reprehensible, but how much of it is illegal?

Firstly, what are the laws governing agents in Taiwan? What can agents legally do or not do? What government agency oversees their activities, and how responsive are they to complaints? And how can I find out if Albert is a legally registered agent?

Second, what are the laws relating to withholding of salaries for debts incurred? Without a signed contract, Albert apparently feels free to make up the rules as he goes along. Can he, legally, withhold 100% of their pay?

Third, what recourse in general do these teachers have? I’ve suggested they contact the South African embassy or its equivalent in Taiwan, and apparently one of them has a friend working there. What else can they do? And what inquiries should they be making at the embassy to push their case?

I – and others – have suggested they look for other positions. However, they have signed contracts with Maggie and, though they haven’t signed contracts with Albert, I’ve no doubt he would do his best to blacklist them if they try to leave. I’ve suggested they have new positions lined up before they do, and that the new school understands the current situation.

I’ve agreed to get together with all the teachers this weekend, and offer them such help as I can, but I need legal information and ideas for what recourse they can take. In particular, I’m looking for an English translation of the laws governing employee agents, and anyone who has experience with agents.

I and the teachers are hopeful we will be able to get Albert to attend this meeting. If he comes, what issues should I confront him on, and what would be the best way to do it?

Any suggestions and advice would be most welcome.

Lee Kaiwen,
Chiayi

2

No suggestions or advice…with all the information that can found on the web about teaching English in Taiwan, how in the heck did they let themselves get into a situation like this? They “paid a fee upfront”? Christ, I guess it is too late to tell your buddies to get their shit together. :fume:

Okay, okay finished ranting…if I were in their shoes I would tell Albert to f@@k off and look for a new gig. If Albert gives them any grief, then head directly to the SA Trade Office…I know they have dealt with this kind of stuff before. I certainly hope that they at least read the contract before they signed it to make sure this situation wasn’t institutionalized in writing. Was Maggie’s contract also in Mandarin?


PLEASE, IF YOU ACCEPT EMPLOYMENT IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY MAKE SURE YOU UNDERSTAND COMPLETELY WHAT YOU ARE GETTING YOURSELF INTO. ACCESS TO A TON OF RELEVANT INFORMATION IS RIGHT AT YOUR FINERTIPS. EDUCATING YOURSELF IS MUCH EASIER THAN THE ALTERNATIVE…“LEARNING THE HARD WAY”

I hope everything works out for them. Have them PM me if they need to know how to deal with scumbags like Albert and Maggie.

3

One more thing…make sure that they let the word out back in SA about these bad guys. Contact every University, relevant website, etc…

Attack, attack, attack, nobody has ever won a defensive war.

4

Maggie is a good friend of mine. I worked as a teacher for her for a few years and she’s the best (and most generous) boss I have ever had. I find it hard to believe that she would be involved in a rip off.

Have any of the teachers contacted her?

(I should add that I am not in any way involved in recruiting.)

John.

5

[quote=“almas john”]Maggie is a good friend of mine. I worked as a teacher for her for a few years and she’s the best (and most generous) boss I have ever had. I find it hard to believe that she would be involved in a rip off.

Have any of the teachers contacted her?

(I should add that I am not in any way involved in recruiting.)

John.[/quote]

It seems to be this Albert Chachi…perhaps Maggie doesn’t know what is going on.

6

If you don’t have a contract with Albert, and you don’t have an ARC from Albert then you’re not working for Albert, are you? And if you’re working for Albert you’re not working in some other school, are you? That would be illegal, and if you’re doing something illegal then you can’t very well ask for legal help. You’re on your own.

Some simple questions to ask:
How much money does this guy really owe you?
What would you be prepared to do about it, knowing that the law won’t help you and he may or may not be ‘connected’?
Where is your passport?
Can you afford to just walk away and support yourself while you find something better?
How good is your relationship with the person who pays your salary to Albert, and how important are you to that person’s business?

I had a less extreme situation with my agent when I was first in Taiwan. Talking never resolved anything. I made threats to quit, which upset the people I was working for, but they had their contract with the agent and took pains to distance themselves from my problem.

They paid the agent a month in advance. He paid me several weeks in arrears. If the school pisses the agent off then they stand to lose two month’s money. Are they going to help you?

Eventually there was nothing for it but to walk out. I lost everything they owed me. Once you quit you are breaking the contract and that will be their excuse for not paying you anything more. To me it was worth it to get out of the situation and find myself a better one. It’s no use arguing that they broke the contract first. The money is gone, unless you can leverage them using methods that could cause you a lot more trouble.

My second job was much better, but we parted ways some months later and there was some wrangling about money. I did some research and came acrossthis article at tealit which was most useful. Then I went to talk to the boss.

I presented my case thus: I have no money, I have financial commitments over and above the cost of living, and I have no job. (In your case you have a job, but you have no income. How can you work under these circumstances?) I feel that this is your fault, and now I have to go to the expense of another visa run and support myself while I find a job. I can’t afford it. I simply do not have any money, and I feel that you owe me money.

Obviously neither of us want the expense of a legal fight, so I’m here to ask you to pay me what you owe me. No? You disagree? Well, how can we resolve this?

In my case their proposal was not good enough so I stuck to my guns, and suggested instead that we seek arbitration. That surprised them, and I showed them the chinese copy of the article. It deals mostly with the issue of illegal deposits, which is not exactly your situation but is close enough, and outlines a procedure for obtaining a ruling that has the force of law. There is no cost to the teacher, hearings are fast, and it’s done by the Council of Labor Affairs.

Amazingly, my sincere suggestion that we seek ‘outside help’ was not well received. They didn’t want anyone looking at their books, seeing all the illegal teachers, scrutinizing their activities. Can’t think why!!

They tried blustering me with threats of lawyers etc., but I just stuck to the line that it was quicker, easier, and cheaper (for me) to go this route and that was what I was going to have to do. I’m sorry, but the alternative is to overstay and maybe starve or to be deported. Either way I lose because the contract is not being adhered to, so I’d rather try and sort things our first. Blah blah.

Smiley smiley, so sorry that we disagree on this. Clearly I’ve made a mistake, but I can’t afford this so I have to ask for help - just to make sure. You understand. Don’t worry, there’s no cost to you if you’re sure you’ve done nothing wrong. etc. They paid up, but it was not a pleasant experience.

Of course, that’s if you’re going it alone. If I was four guys I would probably nail the fucker to the floor and ask him who to call so they could bring my money. Then I would leave Taiwan and never come back.

7

I had a friend who went through a similar situation. Does this Albert fellow have their passport? Does Albert have a phone number or Web site?

He got himself out of it by just being a shitty teacher, always coming late to work, drinking a lot, showing no patience, painting the apartment–and when I say paint, I mean dipping crap in paint and tossing it all over the living room–and just being a spoilsport. And just to make people more uncomfortable, he told his agent and cram school boss that he was a big homo, and by that point they got so tired of his crap, they just let him go, no money to be paid back.

8

It’s not always that easy to get on the web in SA. My hometown has a population of 200 000 and only ONE internet shop (with 5 computers). The cost for an hour is about the same as buying three Big Mac Meals (one meal is what I got paid per hour working part-time in my University English Department).
And if you are lucky enough to be in an Internet-friendly environment, what’s on offer in Taiwan often looks insanely attractive to what’s on offer in SA. That’s why so many bad recruiters target South Africans…they know we (generalization) need money. And then we get stuck here with all the horrible foreigners laughing at our horrible English skills. :cry:

9

It’s not always that easy to get on the web in SA. My hometown has a population of 200 000 and only ONE internet shop (with 5 computers). The cost for an hour is about the same as buying three Big Mac Meals (one meal is what I got paid per hour working part-time in my University English Department).
And if you are lucky enough to be in an Internet-friendly environment, what’s on offer in Taiwan often looks insanely attractive to what’s on offer in SA. That’s why so many bad recruiters target South Africans…they know we (generalization) need money. And then we get stuck here with all the horrible foreigners laughing at our horrible English skills. :cry:[/quote]

I can vouch for twonavals. It is hard to get on the net there, and it can be slow. Also, the ads do make working in Taiwan ridiculously attractive. I couldn’t quite believe them myself.

10

Wow…I didn’t realize the situation was so desperate in SA. One of my SA friends told me that this was the most money she ever expected to earn from a job (teaching English) and I thought it was so sad since I was making three times as much 10 years ago…oh, well, all I can say is I wish you luck.

11

It’s not always that easy to get on the web in SA. My hometown has a population of 200 000 and only ONE internet shop (with 5 computers). The cost for an hour is about the same as buying three Big Mac Meals (one meal is what I got paid per hour working part-time in my University English Department).
And if you are lucky enough to be in an Internet-friendly environment, what’s on offer in Taiwan often looks insanely attractive to what’s on offer in SA. That’s why so many bad recruiters target South Africans…they know we (generalization) need money. And then we get stuck here with all the horrible foreigners laughing at our horrible English skills. :cry:[/quote]

I think SA accents sound very beautiful.

12

I’ll reply to everyone together here.

Durin’s Bane:

Frankly, Durin’s Bane, your reply was very unhelpful, and smacks of blaming the victim. “Those idiots deserved what they got” not only does nothing to help resolve the situation, it is extremely unfair to those who find themselves in this situation.

Sure, to those of us who have been in Taiwan for a while, these things must seem obvious. I for one remember what it was like trying to line up my first teaching position in a foreign country from half way around the planet. If I had been approached by an agent at that time with promises of smoothing over all the bumps and uncertainties and with guarantees of employment and minimum hours, I probably would have jumped at the chance myself. It is in no way the fault of these teachers that they are in this situation.

I’m not sure who Albert Chachi is. This Albert is known locally as Albert Liang. Whether he goes by other names, I don’t know. Please note that I am located in southern Taiwan, and the Albert I’m dealing with works territories around Tainan and Chiayi counties. As to Maggie’s involvement, see below.

almas john:

I have no idea whether we’re talking about the same Maggie. I have neither met nor talked to either your Maggie or mine, and, with the exceptions noted here, do not know to what extent she is involved in, or even aware of, Albert’s activities. The teachers have informed me that they have conveyed their grievances to Maggie and received no satisfaction; in most cases not even a return phone call. Further, Albert has been withholding a large amount of money from these teachers’ pay each month to be paid to Maggie. This is clearly illegal. In addition, every teacher I’ve talked with who has a contract with Maggie has told me two things: 1) their contracts all guarentee 100 hours minimum per month and 2) despite this, there are many months in which they neither work, nor are paid for, 100 hours. This, if true, puts Maggie in material breach of contract.

stragbasher

This is probably the most difficult issue, I agree. To their knowledge, these teachers have no contract with Albert. They did sign papers for Albert, which they were informed were for their work permits and ARCs. Whether they also signed anything else they don’t know, as Albert has refused to give them copies of what they signed.

The teachers’ work permits are sponsored by a number of schools, none of which, of course, the teachers actually work for. Apparently, neither Albert nor Maggie either sought their consent or informed them that they would be working illegally. They’re only aware of it because I told them. This is probably the slimiest thing Albert has done.

Thanks for the link to the article on fines and deposits. It is directly relevant to this case in at least three instances. First, Albert is withholding $NT5000 per month from every teacher for what he calls a “trust fund” and describes as “insurance” against the possibility of the teacher leaving early. Second, he has threatened at least some of his teachers with hefty monetary penalties (to the tune of $NT100,000) if they leave early, despite the fact that they’re already paying his “insurance premium” against precisely that potentiality. Thirdly, he has informed at least one of his teachers that, should he get caught working illegally (despite that all of the illegal work he does was arranged by Albert), he would be subject (by Albert) to a fine of $NT300,000. All of this is clearly illegal, but none of his teachers was aware of that until I talked to them. The link you’ve provided has been very helpful in this respect.

Unfortunately, however, I’m afraid the local Council of Labor Affairs liason is one of the most useless government employees (and in Taiwan I’ve met a LOT of useless government employees) I have had the misfortune of dealing with, so I’m not sure we have any recourse through that channel. I may try that bluff with Albert anyway, and see if it gets me anywhere.

Flicka:

The teachers I’ve advised so far all have their passports back. However, in at least one case, Albert held onto it for more than two months before returning it. This teacher’s ARC is also dated more than three months after she arrived in Taiwan.

To everyone:

I understand there are two sides to every story, and what I’ve heard so far may simply be cases of disgruntlement. Interestingly, however, some of what I’ve conveyed above comes not from disgruntled teachers, but from teachers who are satisfied enough to continue working for Albert, despite the fact that they all admit Albert has lied to them and attempted to kept them in the dark on many issues.

However, I still haven’t found what I’m most interested in: namely 1) an English translation of the full text of the Labor Standards Act, 2) the relevant agencies and regulations governing the conduct of employee brokers in Taiwan, and 3) an NGO or private organization that has more experience than I do dealing with these sorts of situations (I have little confidence in pursuing this directly through official governmental channels such as the CLA).

Anyone who could provide any of the above would be a Godsend.

Lee Kaiwen,
Taiwan

13

Yes, Kaiwan

At first I did put some of the blame on the teachers. Then it was explained to me that internet access in SA is not as convenient/easy/cheap as I assumed it would be. For this I apologize.

14

DB, and anyone else who cares

I came here with absolutely no research whatsoever, because IACC wrote to me and told me they had an immediate start for me. Despite the fact that I am relatively mature person with experience of agents in other industries I still decided that the potential benefits outweighed the potential risks.

In a way I was wrong, and got myself into a bit of a mess. I have no one to blame for this but myself, because I really should have known better. I did know better, and had easy access to the internet to do a bit of research. Mea culpa. For total newbies though, although I agree in principle that it’s their own bloody fault, I would say that it’s just one of those learning experiences we have to go through to get to where we want to be.

I wasn’t too worried about ‘making a mistake’ by coming here to work for an agent. In the worst-case scenario, which is pretty much what I got, I predicted that I would have an opportunity to find my feet and learn the pitfalls. So I waited five months for my first (illegal) ARC? So I lost some money? So these guys had to wait and lost some money? So what?

There’s piles of the stuff to be made here. While it’s worth kicking up a fuss to get what you want, the important thing to remember is that you’ve had a learning experience for a couple of months. Now use what you’ve learnt to take charge of your situation and get a decent job. You will probably not get anything from Albert. Although you owe it to yourself to try you shouldn’t pin your hopes on it.

Bury the dead. Get on with your life.

(Apologies if this is a bit incoherent. I just fell into a glass of Bacardi and Coke while getting ready for happy hour. Alleycat’s going to be so upset!)

15

[quote=“stragbasher”]

(Apologies if this is a bit incoherent. I just fell into
a
glass of Bacardi and Coke while getting ready for happy hour. Alleycat’s going to be so upset!)[/quote]

“A” implies “one” …is this some sort of typo? :laughing:

16

[quote=“Durins Bane”][quote=“stragbasher”]

(Apologies if this is a bit incoherent. I just fell into
a
glass of Bacardi and Coke while getting ready for happy hour. Alleycat’s going to be so upset!)[/quote]

“A” implies “one” …is this some sort of typo? :laughing:[/quote]

No. One brief look at other Western Germanic languages will tell you that “a” is “one”, and therefore does not imply it.

17

[quote=“terror firmer”]

No. One brief look at other Western Germanic languages will tell you that “a” is “one”, and therefore does not imply it.[/quote]

Golly, that sure was informative…thank you oh so very much Mr. Smartypants.

18

In the sense that your experience should have forewarned to avoid the situation, of course we all make such mistakes more often than we should. In that sense, you’re correct.

As for the moral culpability implied in your “mea culpa”, however, you bear none. The moral culpability lies with those committing the deceitful and/or illegal acts, if any. This is the angle I’m pursuing here. When it comes to issues of human rights my own internal moral compass does not permit the laissez-faire-ism implied in your “Bury the dead. Get on with your life” advice.

If what I’ve been hearing from the teachers is at any point accurate (and I emphasize that I’m still in the fact-finding phase of my inquiries, and have yet to talk with the other side), then the responsible party or parties are – and have for some time been – operating illegally and in blatant disregard for these workers’ rights. Unhindered, they will continue to do so, at the cost of more human rights violations in the future. The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to say “chalk it up as a learning experience” (with apologies to Edmund Burke).

It is entirely possible these teachers walk away with nothing, and at least the ones I’ve talked to are prepared for that. They’re more interested in extricating themselves from the situation than they are in any monies lost. We’re still exploring the options available to them.

Of course, it’s entirely possible there has been no wrong-doing of any kind. On the other hand, if there has been, then the evil must, on principle, be opposed, not ignored.

Wow! You drink in preparation for Happy Hour?!

Lee Kaiwen,
Chiayi

19

Twonavels:Please tell me in which city you lived in SA before coming to Taiwan.Im getting tired of all these Taiwanese shit and thinking of returning to SA.Over the 3 yrs I worked here,I saved some money.Maybe its a good idea to open a big internet shop there and make some money.I want to return to SA,but not sure what to do.

Thanks

20

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

You’re not the only one, babe.

BTW, Kaiwen, I don’t understand, since they are hardly getting paid anyway, and they have their passports, why don’t they just get up and leave? What is he going to do, have them arrested for breaking contract that was illegal?