South Africans - Wakker Skrik(Wake Up)

The MOE may take them off the list, which is the danger now that the first step has been taken,and when they realize the shortfall in teachers, esp. in the smaller towns(will those used to Taipei etc go there?), the rule will be conveniently ignored.Or this will give some “honest ethical” agents a chance to skim by employing teachers as consultants/writers etc.
In your teaching,and I have taught from bottom to top, have you ever had to be really proficient in English ? I have never been required to.
Senior 2 pupils, after years of “teaching” still could not say “can I go to the toilet ?” Again Taiwanese do not sound vaguely North American when speaking "Chinglish"It is more about which country Taiwan wants to be associated with(suck up to).
For Elementary Schools,as a teacher you must now have studied education in your Batchelor’s, for Junior/Senior High you must be a registered teacher. This to teach conversation and “bagwa”. What a joke.
English is the “official” language in SA.
If they are of too low a standard as an English teacher, they will leave/get dismissed/or whatever.
As an example, are Canadians asked “are you French” I think not.
I have met some Romanians, who were very capable as English teachers.
But, it is easy to paint all with the same brush, it takes too much time and effort to enquire individually. I call that lazy and incompetent.
Will the USA do the same with Muslims?( I digress, but a good point)

bigmoose wrote:

the bear wrote:

Exactly my feelings. :bravo:

On top of it, it’s plain rude!! :fume:

big moose wrote:

[quote]Why not outlaw Mandarin also when English speakers are in sight ?
You will be amazed what is spoken about you by many locals in front of you, if they THIMK you cannot understand Mandarin. [/quote]

Who cares what they (the locals) say?

Oh, I get it: It’s retribution… ‘they’ speak Mandarin, ‘we’ speak Afrikaans. Should have known. Maybe that’s why some of my SA colleagues talk Afrikaans to one another in the English office… ALL THE FU*^#NG TIME!! They must be thinking we (their foreign colleagues) are speaking Mandarin. WTF? :fume:

Lastly, don’t ever compare yourself (an English teacher I presume) with one of the local teachers. You’re comparing apples with oranges, and besides… you are the English expert aren’t you? I mean… that IS the reason why you got hired? :loco:

Could we please encourage our Afrikaans English teachers here in Taiwan to talk English at school, especially when colleagues are present? I hope it’s not too much to ask. :wink:

I have also met some school owners who did not want to hire me simply because I have a South African passport. But then, there were also those who did not want to hire me because I am female, not tall enough, not blonde and because I don’t have blue eyes. I was actually told these things after interviews. Yet, I have been working here for 5 years. Just remember, if you are from SA and you get your ARC with a real and original degree then you can leave and find a new job if you think they discriminate against you. If you didn’t get your ARC that way, well, then your boss will know that and then you are not in a position to complain.
Find a company where they focus on your training and your performance in the classroom and then do your job. If you do not draw attention to your nationality and you do your job, it will not become an issue. I am Afrikaans, but it has never been an issue at work because I do not speak it at work. If someone else speaks it at school, explain to that person why it is important not to do that. By doing this, you are acting in a professional way, you are by no means saying that you are not Afrikaans.
It is a good idea to stay away from people who complain and think that they are being discriminated against. Are you here to work or are you here to tell people about your country?
Also, when you came over and signed your contract you thought it was a good deal - otherwise you would not have signed, right? So why do so many people complain about these contracts when they hear someone from the US signed a better deal? Okay, so it’s unfair, but if you did your homework you would have known that there are schools where they pay teachers from all countries the same amount.
I have met many English teachers from many countries here and they all go through hard times at work. It is a good idea to try and find out what the problem is - maybe you work for a manager who has problems with everyone who works for her. Find out if they have reason to complain about your teaching ability and try to improve and to learn from others.
Try to see things in perspective. You are not the center of the universe and everything is not about SA and South Africans.
Do I get upset over letters about South Africans? Not really. They do not apply to me. Unfortunately, some of the things they say in those letters are true of some South Africans (and also of some people from other countries). It is up to you to convince your boss that you are a good teacher.

I agree completely. Like I said, I speak Afrikaans too, but I don’t want to speak it at school. I didn’t even speak Afrikaans at work in South Africa (I was an English teacher back home too), and why would I come do it here where I know people are nervous about hiring SA teachers?

It sounds like bigmoose is upset with the policy that you’re allowed to speak Mandarin and English but not Afrikaans. Well it’s not rocket science since you’re supposed to be an example for the school and to the kids and yapping away in Afrikaans is hardly professional is it? English and Mandarin will be the accepted language of communication since you’re in Taiwan and at an English school. Speak all the Afrikaans you want on your own time, but if I were the owner of a school I’d like my employees to speak english at work.

I’m Taiwanese but I grew up in SA, kindy>primary>high school and what did the teacher tell me on my first day in school … no more Mandarin, we speak English here. Did I find her request unfair? No I didn’t, I was in an English speaking enviroment. You should know by now the Taiwanese are highly image conscious especially in the ESL industry and having their English teachers yakking away in a language most Taiwanese haven’t even heard of will obviously raise some alarm bells.

There are not many(any) straunch, die-hard Afrikaners in this forum, judging by the responses, or the die-hards have been beaten into submission.They have been priviledged for too long.Apartheid is dead.
Regardless of language policy(English and Mandarin) Chinese English teachers will talk in Mandarin together, loudly, even when they know that you cannot understand Mandarin. Rude. Talk softly, are you looking for attention ?
Black people in SA will talk to one another from, across the street, next door, next suburb etc (you get my drift)
Afrikaans to Afrikaans - also rude to others,but no worse.
Eavesdropping(listening in) - rude. But then, if you do choose to talk loudly, expect it.
Again, kids out of the staffroom/teachers room.
So a new policy, talk loudly, slowly, clearly(no local accent/brogue, and that applies to all)and no local idioms/expressions, in all places, at all times,
Or, be more flexible, and concentrate where teaching and learning should take place, in the classroom. Be that the judge.
Again, a Native speaker as a requirement ? Other Nationalities(definitely not English) from “English, native speaking countries” get away with it.
Afrikaners, stop being so honest, proud and obstinate.
But then, less than 50 % is actual performance.
Please define what is a Native English speaker, and after your definition determine what % of English teachers here, qualify by your definition.
Do not be too logical, focused and results orientated, this(the job,your prescence, whatever your call it) is mainly an act.
Also, to Stan, very few are “English Experts”. Experts at other things, more likely.
BTW, I am an English South African.(“c” not “k”) Afrikaans(“k” not “c”)

What happens when an unstoppable object collides with an immovable object ?

[quote=“stan”]bigmoose wrote:

the bear wrote:

Exactly my feelings. :bravo:

On top of it, it’s plain rude!! :fume:

big moose wrote:

[quote]Why not outlaw Mandarin also when English speakers are in sight ?
You will be amazed what is spoken about you by many locals in front of you, if they THIMK you cannot understand Mandarin. [/quote]

Who cares what they (the locals) say?

Oh, I get it: It’s retribution… ‘they’ speak Mandarin, ‘we’ speak Afrikaans. Should have known. Maybe that’s why some of my SA colleagues talk Afrikaans to one another in the English office… ALL THE FU*^#NG TIME!! They must be thinking we (their foreign colleagues) are speaking Mandarin. WTF? :fume:

Lastly, don’t ever compare yourself (an English teacher I presume) with one of the local teachers. You’re comparing apples with oranges, and besides… you are the English expert aren’t you? I mean… that IS the reason why you got hired? :loco:

Could we please encourage our Afrikaans English teachers here in Taiwan to talk English at school, especially when colleagues are present? I hope it’s not too much to ask. :wink:[/quote]

I agree with most if not all of what you have said.

nx wrote:

Staying away from someone is called shunning which is another form of discrimination. So what you are saying is that one should discriminate against people who are being discriminated against. Am I right?

[quote=“keiththehessite”]nx wrote:

Staying away from someone is called shunning which is another form of discrimination. So what you are saying is that one should discriminate against people who are being discriminated against. Am I right?[/quote]

no i think she means stay away from people with chips on their shoulders…i thought it was a pretty spot on post actually…

Why shouldn’t speakers of Afrikaans speak the langauge to each other in their break time at work. Sure if they’re teachign English to kids, and those kids are around, they should speak English, but if they’re in an office or teachers room chatting with workmates, there’s nothing wrong with it whatsoever.

Brian

[quote=“Bu Lai En”]Why shouldn’t speakers of Afrikaans speak the langauge to each other in their break time at work. Sure if they’re teachign English to kids, and those kids are around, they should speak English, but if they’re in an office or teachers room chatting with workmates, there’s nothing wrong with it whatsoever.

Brian[/quote]

It’s good for children to get used to hearing many languages spoken and not just English. When the tourists visit my town they are always surprised :loco: :loco: when the people here speak our own tribal language which is Tsou.

They are even more surprised to hear my husband speak it :smiley: :smiley:

I can’t say I’ve been aware of this at all. I have a (Black) South African friend who teaches at a local government Senior High school. But then I should also probably add that he has a degree in education and and has 13 years of experience teaching English at high school in South Africa…

You don’t have a leg to stand on. Speaking Afrikaans (the gall!) at your school, which probably accepted you as a first language educator, is like a Japanese chef eating a Big Mac in front of all the customers of a French restaurant.

[quote=“stan”]Oh, I get it: It’s retribution… ‘they’ speak Mandarin, ‘we’ speak Afrikaans. Should have known. Maybe that’s why some of my SA colleagues talk Afrikaans to one another in the English office… ALL THE FU*^#NG TIME!! They must be thinking we (their foreign colleagues) are speaking Mandarin. WTF? :fume:

Could we please encourage our Afrikaans English teachers here in Taiwan to talk English at school, especially when colleagues are present? I hope it’s not too much to ask. :wink:[/quote]

WTF??? :loco: :loco:
Why would it be different for people to speak Afrikaans to each other, when they are Afrikaans, than, say, for French people speaking French to each other? I have friends from Peru, and they GULP speak Spanish to each other. Then I have friends from the UK, and what do you know, they speak English to each other!!
I’m Afrikaans and I’ll speak Afrikaans to any other Afrikaans person if and when it bloodywell suits me. If people want to make small talk at work with their colleagues/friends who speak the same language, surely they can do it in that language? Or otherwise use Mandarin, rather than English? We are in Taiwan after all, if that was the point you tried to make.
Furthermore, it is not wise to tell an Afrikaner when and where they MAY use their language. We have a thing about it. Go google it and learn something. :sunglasses:

OK, I know you are joking, but that really is a generalization. I have no problem with anybody telling me not to speak Afrikaans in a job where I was hired as a native speaker of English. Of course, if your job is in IT or whatever you can speak any language you want. It really annoys me that South Africans will speak Afrikaans to me at work, and when I answer in English, they just continue to speak Afrikaans.
So while you are entitled to your opinion I don’t think it is wise to make statements on behalf of all “Afrikaners” like that. Because I certainly don’t agree with you. :stuck_out_tongue:

We are 4 South Africans working at my school.Nobody has ever complained about anybody speaking Afrikaans.If the Taiwanese can speak Mandarin and some Canadians speak French,then I don’t see any problem with AFRIKAANS!!!

My students are four years old and can:

1.count from 1-10
2.say please and thank you.
3.hurry up–KOM JONG
4.brother–boetie
5.sister–sussie
6.oh no,what are you doing–ag ge nee,wat maak jy.

IN AFRIKAANS.

Now —The Taiwanese teachers as well as the parents are very happy and proud that their children can count from 1-10 in three languages.

I THINK IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH AFRIKAANS,YOU ARE JUST JEALOUS!!!,beacause you have got no f… idea what’s going on,hahaha.

I know a number of Afrikaans speakers who would agree with twonavels point about being hired as native English speakers so they refuse to speak Afrikaans at work. Personally I don’t care but when my Afrikaans friend invite my their place and then only speak in Afrikaans its like I’ve just stepped off the plane all over again. I’m not sure if that’s a good or bad thing. :s

The defence rests.
:bravo:

Now I’ve heard everything.

God forbid!!! :unamused:

Don’t be so touchy now! What and how they speak in their free time? Who gives a flying duck?

I’m talking about the English teaching scene in Taiwan, and about other English speakers (including English-speaking SA teachers) getting pissed off with colleagues speaking Afrikaans in the teachers’ room and during staff meetings. “Do they need someone to translate or what?” is the FAQ by many.

Oh please! :noway:

I don’t need Google to tell me something about professional courtesy.