🛣 Roads - Southern Cross-Island Highway

[bob]

Thanks MM. As obsessions go it’s a dandy I reckon.

What I’m looking for just now is the actual highest point. Not the source, or the headwater or anything like that that might be restrained by questions of semantics, but the actual highest point that ANY water would flow into any stream that might eventually flow into anything that might be considered part of the Danshui River System.

To find it I (we?) would need to consult a relief map with elevations. I don’t imagine that the answer is readily available anywhere for the simple reason that it probably isn’t all that scientifically relevant, and it isn’t the kind of question that anybody would ask as an artist, until now.

(Actually let’s move this over to “a?river.” I can’t imagine I’ll be getting out much to do any real adventuring so maybe we can get the fine minds here working on this odd and difficult little question. I suspect it’s a doozy.)

BTW, thanks for the links.

[sulavaca]

[quote=“Mucha Man”]I suggest you drive the 3 to Sanxia, exit and take the 7 spur route down to Shimen and then connect to the 7 proper, the North Cross island Hwy. Stop at the ancient trees at Baling and then drive up to Taipingshan, a gorgeous forest reserve with some nice hot springs on the way up.

Return to the 7 and head up to Wuling Farm, and then up to Lishan and Dayuling and down through Taroko Gorge from the top (the best way down, with Chinese landscape painting views the whole way).

From Taroko take highway 9 to Liyu Lake and ride a bike or drive Hwy 14 up the Mugua River Gorge, a mini Taroko Gorge only far more wild and untamed looking.

Then drive down the rift valley. In Yuli head out to the Wallami trail. Also check out Loshan, an organic growing valley with some of the best scenery in the rift valley: think towering blue mountain ranges on both sides of you as you sit in a lush rice growing valley.

You can ride up the old South Cross Island Highway a bit also.

Then ride down to Taidong but take a side trip up to Luye, one of the nicet bits of rural Taiwan, and also the centre of parasailing. Once in Taidong take Highway 11 back up to Hualian and then the Suhua up to Yilan and taipei. Basically after Sanxia you will be in sparsely populated land with one stunning landscape after the other. And you won’t have repeated a single mile.

After Taidong you could also drive down to Kending but make sure to take the 199. When riding back, after Fangliao take the 185 up to Sandimen. 70km of pure rural landscape as opposed to the shit you would go through heading up the coastal routes.

From Sandimen continue to Maolin and then cut over to the 20 and up the Tsengwen Reservoir way to Guanziling along the lovely “coffee road”.

From Guanziling head up to Alishan and then across to Tatajia and on to Dongpu, Sun Moon Lake, Puli and Highway 14 up to Hehuanshan where the road gets to 3140m?, putting you above the treeline.

Then once again drop down into Taroko and at the end of that head up the Suhua Highway to Yilan and Taipei.[/quote]

That’s fantastic Much Man. Thanks for that. Is Alishan passable though? I saw pictures of the devestation around there just after the typhoon. Can you or anyone confirm these roads are open for a car? This whole trip will be done on four wheels. I have the old man to shift around.

[maunaloa]

@van Teil

The workers told me that the east part Taidong untill the Yakou lodge is driveable …

That is correct (more accurately, from Chishang to Yakou Lodge; Taidong is some distance from the E. terminus.). Did it last Nov.

[maunaloa]

MM’s itinerary is superb (as usual). A full week would be rushed, IMO. It would be better at 10 to 14 days, if you like hot springs, photography, chatting with locals, etc.

[Bu_Lai_En]

SV, Muchaman’s plan is great, but if you only have four days, I’d just do the East Coast part, and leave the West for another trip. But if you follow his plan of coming up the 7甲 from Wuling Farm, past Lishan to Dayuling, just head the extra half hour up to the top of Hehuanshan for the view, before heading down again.

Here’s an old thread of mine with some travel times, if it’s any use.

flob.me/p906817

[zyzzx]

[quote=“bob”]Thanks MM. As obsessions go it’s a dandy I reckon.

What I’m looking for just now is the actual highest point. Not the source, or the headwater or anything like that that might be restrained by questions of semantics, but the actual highest point that ANY water would flow into any stream that might eventually flow into anything that might be considered part of the Danshui River System.

To find it I (we?) would need to consult a relief map with elevations. I don’t imagine that the answer is readily available anywhere for the simple reason that it probably isn’t all that scientifically relevant, and it isn’t the kind of question that anybody would ask as an artist, until now.

(Actually let’s move this over to “a?river.” I can’t imagine I’ll be getting out much to do any real adventuring so maybe we can get the fine minds here working on this odd and difficult little question. I suspect it’s a doozy.)

BTW, thanks for the links. [/quote]

Shouldn’t be too hard. You can find google earth files with all of the drainage basins on the water resources bureau website: gweb.wra.gov.tw/wrweb/ (you will have to do some digging, but they are there somewhere). Stick it in Google earth, and you can just go around the edge of the drainage basin till you find the highest point.
maybe here: 24°25’44.23"N 121°15’33.81"E around 3400m
or nearby

[bob]

That stuff is easy for you guys. Me, I just ASK you guys. I think Chris found it, over here…

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=79419&start=240

PINtiaN SHAN, 3524 meters.

[Mucha_Man]

[quote=“sulavaca”][quote=“Mucha Man”]I suggest you drive the 3 to Sanxia, exit and take the 7 spur route down to Shimen and then connect to the 7 proper, the North Cross island Hwy. Stop at the ancient trees at Baling and then drive up to Taipingshan, a gorgeous forest reserve with some nice hot springs on the way up.

Return to the 7 and head up to Wuling Farm, and then up to Lishan and Dayuling and down through Taroko Gorge from the top (the best way down, with Chinese landscape painting views the whole way).

From Taroko take highway 9 to Liyu Lake and ride a bike or drive Hwy 14 up the Mugua River Gorge, a mini Taroko Gorge only far more wild and untamed looking.

Then drive down the rift valley. In Yuli head out to the Wallami trail. Also check out Loshan, an organic growing valley with some of the best scenery in the rift valley: think towering blue mountain ranges on both sides of you as you sit in a lush rice growing valley.

You can ride up the old South Cross Island Highway a bit also.

Then ride down to Taidong but take a side trip up to Luye, one of the nicet bits of rural Taiwan, and also the centre of parasailing. Once in Taidong take Highway 11 back up to Hualian and then the Suhua up to Yilan and taipei. Basically after Sanxia you will be in sparsely populated land with one stunning landscape after the other. And you won’t have repeated a single mile.

After Taidong you could also drive down to Kending but make sure to take the 199. When riding back, after Fangliao take the 185 up to Sandimen. 70km of pure rural landscape as opposed to the shit you would go through heading up the coastal routes.

From Sandimen continue to Maolin and then cut over to the 20 and up the Tsengwen Reservoir way to Guanziling along the lovely “coffee road”.

From Guanziling head up to Alishan and then across to Tatajia and on to Dongpu, Sun Moon Lake, Puli and Highway 14 up to Hehuanshan where the road gets to 3140m?, putting you above the treeline.

Then once again drop down into Taroko and at the end of that head up the Suhua Highway to Yilan and Taipei.[/quote]

That’s fantastic Much Man. Thanks for that. Is Alishan passable though? I saw pictures of the devestation around there just after the typhoon. Can you or anyone confirm these roads are open for a car? This whole trip will be done on four wheels. I have the old man to shift around.[/quote]

The road to Alishan village is back in drivable condition. I did it early February. Still some massive slides scars on the landscape and the roads are hardly finished but there was only one section I had that has traffic control. I only went as far as Tatajia but was told the road to Dongpu was okay.

It’s too bad the road to Ruili was out for regular cars as they have fixed the road the Tsaoling on the other side and that is one amazing route. I looked foward to driving from Jhushan over to Alishan one day.

[MJB]

[quote=“Mucha Man”]
It’s too bad the road to Ruili was out for regular cars as they have fixed the road the Tsaoling on the other side and that is one amazing route. I looked foward to driving from Jhushan over to Alishan one day.[/quote]

Is this open to 4 wheel drive vehicles at the moment?

[Mucha_Man]

[quote=“MJB”][quote=“Mucha Man”]
It’s too bad the road to Ruili was out for regular cars as they have fixed the road the Tsaoling on the other side and that is one amazing route. I looked foward to driving from Jhushan over to Alishan one day.[/quote]

Is this open to 4 wheel drive vehicles at the moment?[/quote]

Not sure. The cop on duty in Tsaoling told me no you couldn’t yet continue on to Alishan, but that was January or early February (I’ve been travelling so much these past 3 months I can’t remember when I’ve been somewhere ).

[Mucha_Man]

Had an interesting talk with a lawyer from the land management department in Kaohsiung today. Just a chance meeting at Back Cihu, the old war planning centre for CKS during the 50s and 60s.

Anyway, just to add to the chorus, she said that the south cross will not be rebuilt as the gov just doesn’t want to spend the money anymore. I’ve heard this from other sources but it was interesting from this one as she was totally honest about how land management is such a mess because of local influence and the need for the central government to appease these interests for the votes; but now it is simply becoming too costly to maintain some of these relations and the costly infrastructure projects they require.

[lostinasia]

@Mucha Man

[S]he said that the south cross will not be rebuilt as the gov just doesn’t want to spend the money anymore. I’ve heard this from other sources but it was interesting from this one as she was totally honest about how land management is such a mess because of local influence and the need for the central government to appease these interests for the votes; but now it is simply becoming too costly to maintain some of these relations and the costly infrastructure projects they require.

Wow. Most of me thinks this is a damn shame, but I also wonder if it’s maybe a good thing with regards to land use/ preservation. Is there a case to make there?

Just what wiped out the South Cross-Island? Was it Typhoon Morakot?

I used to take a scooter up to Yakou all the time when I lived in Tainan - it’s perhaps the most beautiful road I’ve ever driven. Although from the sounds of it, that part is still open, barely - but if they’re not going to maintain the whole road, I guess we can assume big chunks of it are going to fall [literally!] into disrepair.

Dare I ask what condition Maolin is in these days? That park was lovely.

[plasmatron]

That would truly be a very sad loss for Taiwan if they do decide to let the it fall into ruin… The upper sections of the Southern cross highway and it’s surrounds has IMO the most spectacularly beautiful scenery anywhere in Taiwan… Then again keeping the binlang cup dumping hordes and the commie tour groups away from it may have it’s advantages…

[Mucha_Man]

@lostinasia

[quote=“Mucha Man”][S]he said that the south cross will not be rebuilt as the gov just doesn’t want to spend the money anymore. I’ve heard this from other sources but it was interesting from this one as she was totally honest about how land management is such a mess because of local influence and the need for the central government to appease these interests for the votes; but now it is simply becoming too costly to maintain some of these relations and the costly infrastructure projects they require.

Wow. Most of me thinks this is a damn shame, but I also wonder if it’s maybe a good thing with regards to land use/ preservation. Is there a case to make there?

Just what wiped out the South Cross-Island? Was it Typhoon Morakot?

I used to take a scooter up to Yakou all the time when I lived in Tainan - it’s perhaps the most beautiful road I’ve ever driven. Although from the sounds of it, that part is still open, barely - but if they’re not going to maintain the whole road, I guess we can assume big chunks of it are going to fall [literally!] into disrepair.

Dare I ask what condition Maolin is in these days? That park was lovely.[/quote]

It is a great thing for the environment of Taiwan to make huge tracts of land inaccessible. The forestry department has been closing off access roads to the deep mountains for the past decade and this has led to a huge resurgence in wildlife. Hunters don’t bother going deep into the mountains anymore as there is no market for dried meat (they can’t carry it out fresh if it takes them days to get back).

Yes, it was the typhoon that wiped the SC out. Three metres of rain in a landslide prone area will do that. Taiwan’s mountains are young and unstable. On the South Cross you could actually see a section of the Phillipine and Eurasian plates pushed up above ground. I think it was the poster zzzyyzz that said taiwan’s mountains are rising 6cm every year because of plate movements, but being worn down almost as much by eroding factors. Another US specialist wrote that among landslide experts taiwan has an almost mythical status. This is a crazy place.

The damge to the SC has possibly just begun though.
english.cw.com.tw/article.do?act … w&id=11794

Maolin is in rough shape but still there. The hot spring area is fucked, and the visitor centre was washed away. I couldn’t get there by car after the earthquake a few weeks ago but you probably can now.

[Mucha_Man]

@plasmatron

That would truly be a very sad loss for Taiwan if they do decide to let the it fall into ruin… The upper sections of the Southern cross highway and it’s surrounds has IMO the most spectacularly beautiful scenery anywhere in Taiwan… Then again keeping the binlang cup dumping hordes and the commie tour groups away from it may have it’s advantages…

Very likely they would maintain a trail through there. Otherwise Guanshan and other areas would be inaccessible forever.

[tommy525]

I was lucky enough to have driven the East-West Cross Island a few times. Now thats not possible in some sections. But i have never been on the Southern Cross and now that looks like to be permanently closed too. ON the other hand, perhaps proper development as bike trails on both ends where it is open could be good? Cars could go too and maybe just do a u-turn at some scenic spot or some such. This way over-all traffic will diminish leaving the road good for multi-use (cars/bikes).

Maybe inaccessible is a good thing over-all. Keep the deep mountains completely PEOPLE FREE. Nature and animals only . For preservation .

[Volviic]

Thought there was a thread on the Southern Cross somewhere, didn’t find it, hope this is not a duplication.

Did a reconnaissance trip up the Southern Cross Highway from Tainan yesterday (December 15, 2010). Some conclusions:

Passable now by car to just past the Yakao tunnel. This only applies if you are very confident driving difficult roads and for the next few months of dry weather (remember the south generally has dry winters). When the next significant rain arrives the road is sure to close in several section.

Impassable by any means (km mark 148 I think), between the tunnel and the Yakao hostel. There are suggestions (that I don’t really believe) that this large landslide section will be passable by Chinese New Year. We did the last, highest, section on bicycles and then on foot. There was no way we could have crossed the final landslide. Based on previous experience and most reports the highway should usually be fine from Xianyang eastwards.

Even if open in practice, the road between Meishan and Xiangyang may remain officially (legally) closed. If planning a cycle trip over the new year, get up to date road condition reports, be prepared for the road to be closed beyond Meishan, and consider only riding the section from Meishan (for reasons of pleasantness).

The highway is ‘scruffy’ all the way from Jiasian (Jiaxian) to Meishan, stunning scenery after Meishan. Starting in Jiasien (or even Yujing/Liogui) the road is less than pretty in many places. There are numerous places where the road has been/is being patched up - and vulnerable to further damage/closure. The villages (Jiaxian, Baolai, Taoyuan, Meishan etc) have a down-and-out feel to them. After Taoyuan a several kilometer section of road is unsurfaced and is in the riverbed - unsuitable for many cars or drivers. After Meishan the views are as wonderful as ever, and the road is fine for 99% of its length. The problem lies in the remaining 1% obviously, most bad spots have been patched up and only OK for confident drivers.

Lots of people have lots of contradictory and inaccurate opinions on the current state of the road and what is likely to happen both in the short and long term. This includes those that should know: Forestry Department, National Park, Highway Bureau, police, hunters, road workers, surveyors, etc etc. Also note some people’s, otherwise reasonably informed, knowledge ends when it goes out of their jurisdiction - Kaohsiung County people are badly informed about conditions 500 meters further along in Taidong County. Any ‘information’ should be interpreted cautiously.

My conclusions in January - after a recce trip when I was able to drive all the way over, still make sense: The 921 earthquake and Typhoon Morakot have fundamentally changed the state of things. There will be various targets and a lot of money spent on keeping the road open for the next couple years. Much of the work will unfortunately cause damage that will influence the stability of hillsides for later periods - ie work to temporally open it for the next weeks/month will cause damage that will make medium-term repairs in 6 months time more difficult, in turn those repairs will make the long term reconstruction more difficult. I will not be surprised if after 3 or 4 years of typhoons/earthquakes/deaths/money spent the government will announce the closure of the highway for 10/20/30 years. There is a decent chance of it being kept passable as far as Meishan (still some resilient residents there) on the west side, and to Xiangyang (road conditions OK) on the east side. There are no magic solutions, anything done is at the end of a vulnerable supply chain - the road itself.

Further photos of the recce herehttp://picasaweb.google.com/barkingdeerinfo/SouthCrossRecceDec10#. Includes a lot of photos of rolling rocks from road building around the section of highway beyond Taoyuan. Over 15 excavators were dumping debris over a cliff. It was an incredible show, watching a non-stop stream of rocks, some as big as regular cars, bouncing down into the river.

A note on conditions and background. We drove a a high-wheelbase 2-wheel drive van, in dry conditions - it rained today. My friend and I are both confident and well experienced dealing with rough roads and crossing landslides. We do not recommend this trip to everyone - no offense that may include you.

If needing more info email me at barkingdeerinfo@gmail.com Also remind me to post updates as we approach the New Year(s).

[tommy525]

I think you are probably right, except the gov’t won’t announce the road will be closed for such and such years. It will simply be closed “until further notice” and then there is no notice.

[Feiren]

Thanks for the update. The Southern Cross is sorely missed. I used to ride this a couple times a year and hike in the area as well.

[Jah_Lynnie]

Thanks for the update. Hiking southwards from Guan Shan peak (3666 meters) it’s possible to peel off the spine at several points and come down westwards to aboriginal villages at the end of twisty mountain roads. One of the roads comes down near Taoyuan and another further south. Have these villages been evacuated or did the roads survive Morakot?

I also wonder if they will reroute the hiking trail from the road up to Guan Shan peak. That was a staircase of old railway sleepers which i heard got washed away…