Speed/safety debate revisited

Life Cars & Motorcycles
1

So I’m riding up the 106 to Ping Xi on Sunday breaking in my bike, typical

crowded Sunday morning filled with every awesome superbike currently

made and the gaping sheep in cages watching them buzz their side

mirrors when up from behind me come a Ducati Monster and a Buell,

weaving and bobbing low in the turns. We play catch me and pass each

other along the way, I got the final long stretch and broke free on a last

140KM sprint,

ended up at the cafe at the top of the hill first
(They didn’t even give me a trophy)

I have a chat with the two friendly riders and sit down for the days first

coffee. The Buell rider tells me he usually rides a Busa and that it’s his

friends new Buell. He switched plates to ride it because it hasn’t even been

registered yet. We talk of the reckless ride up where we were reaching

speeds up to 150KM on twisty ass roads full of cars.

They ask how long I’ve had my bike, tell them a week thinking they’d be

impressed but they stated cooly,

“Ahh, no wonder you were riding so conservatively.”

I show them my big bike license after being asked and the Buell rider says,

“I’ve been meaning to get one of those.”

I ask the Ducati rider what he does for a living and he gives me a card,

“I’m a policeman!!” :bravo: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

2

Yeah, pretty much every riding group I’ve ridden with has at least 1 cop in it. The police chief of Taipei’s son had a high speed crash on his bike (he’s ok) and his dad was so mad at the press it generated that he sent his son to China for school or something.

But the above quote pisses me off. On a road as twisty as the one you guys were riding on…the BUEL and the DUCATI should have had the ADVANTAGE over your high revving, high speed bike (not putting your bike down…just saying for that particular road…the advantage should have been theirs) and you get to the cafe faster than them…and they still have the nerve to criticize your riding? Typical…a group I recently rode with did that…next time I ride with them I’m going to tell them to leave me in their dust…or try their best to do so. And if they can’t… then to shut the fuck up with the criticisms.

3

And you wonder why people have something against big bike riders? :loco:

I don’t care if you’re on a big bike or a blue truck. When you start driving like an idiot and risk other people’s lives, you deserve to get harrassed.

4

[quote=“JMcNeill”]
I don’t care if you’re on a big bike or a blue truck. When you start driving like an idiot and risk other people’s lives, you deserve to get harrassed.[/quote]

Yeah, but the difference is that when a blue truck drives crazy they can very easily kill someone else. It’s possible with a bike as well…but much much much less likely. It’s much much much much more likely that the biker is going to kill himself…and only himself.

This is proven statistically as the majority of accidents involving bikes and speed happen on corners where the bike goes off the road…and no other vehicles are involved.

I’m not saying a bike can’t kill someone else…I’m just saying you can’t compare it to the pieces of shit who drive cars and trucks fast. That’s all.

5

[quote=“Mordeth”][quote=“JMcNeill”]
I don’t care if you’re on a big bike or a blue truck. When you start driving like an idiot and risk other people’s lives, you deserve to get harrassed.[/quote]

Yeah, but the difference is that when a blue truck drives crazy they can very easily kill someone else. It’s possible with a bike as well…but much much much less likely. It’s much much much much more likely that the biker is going to kill himself…and only himself.

This is proven statistically as the majority of accidents involving bikes and speed happen on corners where the bike goes off the road…and no other vehicles are involved.

I’m not saying a bike can’t kill someone else…I’m just saying you can’t compare it to the pieces of shit who drive cars and trucks fast. That’s all.[/quote]

I guess that means that I shouldn’t try to avoid the peices of shit riding bikes fast and swerving in and out of traffic. Since they aren’t going to kill me, I shouldn’t swerve to get out of their way and possibly cause an accident with another car or truck that might result in my death.
I love this logic. “I can do whatever the fu@k I want and anyone who does something I don’t like is a piece of shit”

6

That’s about the funniest thing I’ve ever heard, getting critisized for driving dangerously

                            IN                 TAIWAN!!!!

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

7

[quote=“JMcNeill”]

I guess that means that I shouldn’t try to avoid the peices of shit riding bikes fast and swerving in and out of traffic. Since they aren’t going to kill me, I shouldn’t swerve to get out of their way and possibly cause an accident with another car or truck that might result in my death.
I love this logic. “I can do whatever the fu@k I want and anyone who does something I don’t like is a piece of shit”[/quote]

Nope, I’m just saying you can’t compare bikes to blue trucks. That’s all. Peace out!

8

Believe me, it’s not funny at all to drive your car over the remains of an idiot whose bike got out of his control when he weaved into your lane just in front of you doing 150 kph.

Your logic puts you level with dumb-ass scooter monkeys. Would you let us know your license plate number as a sign that you want us to run over you without trying to brake or avoid the crash in case you lose control of your bike?

9

[quote=“Tyio Ma”]Believe me, it’s not funny at all to drive your car over the remains of an idiot whose bike got out of his control when he weaved into your lane just in front of you doing 150 kph.

Your logic puts you level with dumb-ass scooter monkeys. Would you let us know your license plate number as a sign that you want us to run over you without trying to brake or avoid the crash in case you lose control of your bike?[/quote]

What logic is that? All I said was that you can’t say that riding a bike fast compares to driving a truck fast. And I don’t think that’s debatable.

10

[quote=“Mordeth”][quote=“Tyio Ma”]Believe me, it’s not funny at all to drive your car over the remains of an idiot whose bike got out of his control when he weaved into your lane just in front of you doing 150 kph.

Your logic puts you level with dumb-ass scooter monkeys. Would you let us know your license plate number as a sign that you want us to run over you without trying to brake or avoid the crash in case you lose control of your bike?[/quote]

What logic is that? All I said was that you can’t say that riding a bike fast compares to driving a truck fast. And I don’t think that’s debatable.[/quote]

Didn’t quote properly, my note was related to B2G giggling, which I find plain stupid. For that I’m sorry. But your point does not justify fast riding. When I’m out on the road, it’s not relieving to know fast bikes are less dangerous than blue trucks. I don’t want any fucking danger at all. I don’t drive to get some adrenaline, I drive to get to my destination safely and timely and I don’t like having to watch out for idiots.

Edit: as if blue trucks are not causing enough trouble already.

11

That’s why I prefer to do my “idiot riding” in the very early hours of the morning…around 6am…much less chance of running into normal folks on the road.

12

Mordeth, I believe you can. Think about it, both stupidly endanger the lives of others. There, that’s a comparison and it is fucking apt.

It’s a nice cosy cocoon for bike riders to blatt about thinking they’ll be the only victims of their own folly, and believe me, when I was a younger big-bike lunatic I also said exactly the same. I now see how stupid a cop out that claim is.

People are naturally disposed to not killing people, for the most part. Now poor granny sputtering the grandkids to school or play in her “cage” in all likelihood had no plans to enter a formula one the day she encounters you ducking and weaving and screaming up the inside and mentally prepared for what you are doing. She is very likely to freak and in an attempt NOT to take out your sorry arse may heave the car out of the noise and violence of your arrival and into another line taking out who knows who.

It’s particularly strange that you’d hold to this line when in another thread there is clear evidence of what a very fast bike did to a car, its driver and passenger.

If you are going to scream around like an idiot, at least have the balls to admit that yes, you are aware of the consequences and they do very much include the possibility of killing someone else. Stop being so fucking ridiculous.

Personally, my take on fast bike riding is that if you want to do it, there is a venue, it’s called a race track, and the best bit about it is that EVERYONE on it knows the score and has agreed to be there and go fast. The ionly thing that could possibly be holding you back is that your’e too fucking scared to mix it with people that can actually ride.

A solo death to all cafe-racer wankers.

HG

13

Taking the twisties at 150kph on the 106 on a Sunday is absolutely fucking (deleted to avoid a ban).

14

Absolutely. It’s cretinous behavior. If you’re going 150 on a tortuous road like the 106 that means you are passing cars around blind corners. Whatever, you’ll stop riding soon enough, one way or the other. Since you care nothing of endangering others lives, I don’t care which way it is: accident or you lose your nerve.

I can’t tell you how many times on the 106 I have almost been smashed into by cars or bikes coming into my lane as they pass a stream of cars on their side of the road. Too many fucking times. I slow going around corners now as you never know if you’ll find someone recklessly speeding toward you as you round the bend.

Are you honestly that fucking stupid, or selfish, or lacking in judgement, that you can’t see riding like that on a busy, winding road is deadly? Get your thrills somewhere else.

15

[quote=“Muzha Man”]I can’t tell you how many times on the 106 I have almost been smashed into by cars or bikes coming into my lane as they pass a stream of cars on their side of the road. Too many fucking times. I slow going around corners now as you never know if you’ll find someone recklessly speeding toward you as you round the bend.[/quote]One of several very good ideas collected in the riding style known as “The Pace” is that you don’t go into the wrong lane.
faq.f650.com/FAQs/RidingTipsFAQ.htm#The%20Pace

16

It’s worth pointing out though that given the numbers of bikes on UK roads, and the weather, and the speeds done, not to mention the traffic density, that comparatively few bikers kill other people. I would even say there are comparatively few accidents. (vs. Taiwan)

I would put this down to better rider training and a half-decent test. Is that really utter nonsense?

17

Hexuan -
I believe that is a very relative comparision.
In Taiwan their is no concept of responsibility for your actions.

18

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]

Mordeth, I believe you can. Think about it, both stupidly endanger the lives of others. There, that’s a comparison and it is fucking apt. [/quote]

Yeah, well I can compare some kid bringing an AK-47 to school…with another kid bringing a slingshot…but I’m not going to…cuz it would be stupid.

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]
It’s a nice cosy cocoon for bike riders to blatt about thinking they’ll be the only victims of their own folly, and believe me, when I was a younger big-bike lunatic I also said exactly the same. I now see how stupid a cop out that claim is. [/quote]

Statistically they WILL BE the victim of their folly…

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]
People are naturally disposed to not killing people, for the most part. Now poor granny sputtering the grandkids to school or play in her “cage” in all likelihood had no plans to enter a formula one the day she encounters you ducking and weaving and screaming up the inside and mentally prepared for what you are doing. She is very likely to freak and in an attempt NOT to take out your sorry arse may heave the car out of the noise and violence of your arrival and into another line taking out who knows who. [/quote]

I spent all Sunday and Saturday riding around with many other bikes…the most dangerous encounter I had was an old man with a 4 month old baby on HIS LAP…turning right from the left lane without signalling (he was holding the baby with one arm) and cutting me off. You’re average Taiwanese person driving A CAR at average speeds…has a better chance of killing someone than myself speeding. Since the roads are covered in scooters…and people in cars often make small mistakes which can cause them to crush or run over a scooter.

So not only can you not compare a speeding blue truck to a speeding bike…you can barley compare a non-speeding car to a speeding bike…with regards to which is the greater danger to other’s lives.

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]
It’s particularly strange that you’d hold to this line when in another thread there is clear evidence of what a very fast bike did to a car, its driver and passenger. [/quote]

It happens. Anything is possible. I’m not denying that. People choke to death on popcorn, too. What’s your point?

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]

If you are going to scream around like an idiot, at least have the balls to admit that yes, you are aware of the consequences and they do very much include the possibility of killing someone else. Stop being so fucking ridiculous. [/quote]

I do admit there is the possibility my bike could kill someone. There is an even GREATER chance my car will kill someone when I’m driving it at normal speed and some kid on a scooter goes flying in front of me without warning. I hear of cars killing kids like that all the time…not so with bikes.

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]
Personally, my take on fast bike riding is that if you want to do it, there is a venue, it’s called a race track, and the best bit about it is that EVERYONE on it knows the score and has agreed to be there and go fast. The ionly thing that could possibly be holding you back is that your’e too fucking scared to mix it with people that can actually ride. [/quote]

Ok, show me a track close to me. I heard TIS is closed. But if not I’ll be riding there. And for your information I’ve done 3 track days at TIS…and I held my own very well…thankyouverymuch.

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]
A solo death to all cafe-racer wankers.

HG[/quote]

Yes, I agree…if we do die on a bike, may it be a solo death…cheers! :beer:

19

We have had this discussion or very similar about 7 million times before, and many of those times it has just resulted in mudslinging and MJB or I having to tidy things up.

So if people really have the appetite to discuss the same old stuff over again then at least keep it civil. If not then MJB and I will have to consider locking and splitting and all that stuff. Or if we’re pressed for time we might just remove the whole thread.

20

I’m not naive. I know that if you have a heavy bike you’re going to want to ride it at the highest percentage you can – I know I would. But.
Much as I hate to give props to Mordeth (:wink:), there’s a HUGE difference between screaming around on the 3 early in the morning when there’s hardly anyone around and screaming around on the 106 on a Sunday – one of the busiest roads in the area at one of the busiest times of the week, with way more than its share of blind corners, sharing the tarmac with a bunch of Taiwanese Sunday drivers who are probably some of the least experienced drivers in the world.
That is just utter, utter madness. Bubba, you should be ashamed of yourself. I know perfectly well that you know much, much better than that.