Speed/safety debate revisited

This is really going nowhere. Mordeth, your rhetoric is highly disagreeable. The latter part of the thread is to be splitted IMO.

And before you go, please leave a note verified by your lawyer. “I go out for speeding. I realize that my speeding might cause an accident. Since I will probably be dead and not able to give explanations afterwards, I admit my guilt in advance. If need be, I want all my possessions to be directed into compensation of the other side’s possible damages. I also grant the other side the right to use my organs for transplantation. If the above will not cover all the damages, the other side has the right to acquire possessions and organs of my family members.”
Of course you still can do nothing to cover accident repercussions such as nervous shock or having to deal with police and justice system.

[quote=“joesax”]We have had this discussion or very similar about 7 million times before, and many of those times it has just resulted in mudslinging and MJB or I having to tidy things up.

So if people really have the appetite to discuss the same old stuff over again then at least keep it civil. If not then MJB and I will have to consider locking and splitting and all that stuff. Or if we’re pressed for time we might just remove the whole thread.[/quote]

I find it ironic that normally the same posters who start these dick waving threads also start the “Bike safety” threads.

I love riding my bike. But I love my family more. And I have a certain amount of respect for the other tenants of the road.

Stay away from me on the road boys and I’ll do my best to stay away from you.

Sandman made a very good point that there are distinctions to be drawn.[quote=“sandman”]Much as I hate to give props to Mordeth (:wink:), there’s a HUGE difference between screaming around on the 3 early in the morning when there’s hardly anyone around and screaming around on the 106 on a Sunday – one of the busiest roads in the area at one of the busiest times of the week, with way more than its share of blind corners, sharing the tarmac with a bunch of Taiwanese Sunday drivers who are probably some of the least experienced drivers in the world.[/quote]

Yeah,well I wasn’t passing blindly on any curves which is where the other riders were passing me. I wasn’t cutting off cars or passing on bridges like they were. My speeds were reached on the straightaways and my braking capability is incredible when compare to a RZ 135 or a Dragonfire. You’ll just have to take my word for it that I’m usually Cool Hand Luke, but I did wring the shit out of the bike that day which was foolish because it was my second time out. :blush:

I was just shocked that the dude was a cop and riding wild assed the way he was.

The driving behavior and utter disregard for human life in this country has numbed me from really caring about other motorists. The number of times I’ve come around blind curves and had cars passing in my lane or “training” each other is ridiculous.

Plasmatron and I had this discussion and we agreed that whenever we were passed by other riders it was because we don’t drive like dicks. I do consider myself fairly conservative and I usually ride right before sun up and in the early mornings on weekdays. I hardly ever ride with anyone else. Yes I have had it up around 200KM, that’s another discussion.

Mordeth’s been trying to call me out on a race

(which we can do on a small twisty country road with no cars that I know like the back of my hand, I race you on my RG 250 so,
“EVEN IF YOU WIN YOU"LL BE BEATING A BIKE HALF YOUR SIZE” :loco: )

But like I stated, they don’t even give you a trophy if you win.

Screw it, I’m riding to the speed that safe and fun and taking my bike home at night with the fairing still intact and my spinal chord functioning.

Mordeth, Bubba, when you pass me on the road, make sure you’re far enough. I’m pretty nervous lately and might swerve suddenly upon hearing your bikes roaring. Or that might be not me.

We’ve all (most of us I assume) been there Bubba, and damn but it is great fun. As you say, riding up to the edge of your ability is where the learning starts. However, the thing is you acknowledge what you’re doing. What shits me about Mordeth’s line is his blanket refusal to accept he is endangering other lives, cause hey, hes not a blue truck.

You know what Mordeth, I was hitchiking once and got a lift with a blue truck driver, he was driving like an absolute maniac but kept saying, it’s alright, I’m no gravel truck. Logic sound familiar?

HG

I don’t need to. I already have it on good authority. That’s why I went easy on ya. :wink:

[quote=“Bubba 2 Guns”] Mordeth’s been trying to call me out on a race

(which we can do on a small twisty country road with no cars that I know like the back of my hand, I race you on my RG 250 so,
“EVEN IF YOU WIN YOU"LL BE BEATING A BIKE HALF YOUR SIZE” :loco: )

But like I stated, they don’t even give you a trophy if you win. [/quote]

That’s not how I remember it. I remember you making fun of my cheaper…smaller…bike. And me saying let’s go for a ride together and you can show me if you can ride your more expensive, faster bike…any better than me. That’s all. But regardless…as forumosans we should ride together sometime soon anyway.

[quote=“Tyio Ma”]
Mordeth, Bubba, when you pass me on the road, make sure you’re far enough. I’m pretty nervous lately and might swerve suddenly upon hearing your bikes roaring. Or that might be not me. [/quote]

Is this some lame threat?" You should ride slower or one day a car will smash into you…and it might be me…" something like that? :s

Nope, I’m saying that I DO ENDANGER LIVES…but when I drive a car at normal speeds I ENDANGER LIVES MORE. So unless you’re saying every single car on the island should be removed due to the danger they represent to people on scooters…then I still don’t see what you’re trying to get me to admit. That I ride one of the least dangerous vehicles (with regards to others saftey) on the road? But that there’s still a very small chance it might hurt someone else? I’ve already agreed to this.

I really can’t believe how obtuse you are being HGC by saying " his blanket refusal to accept he is endangering" when I’ve already admited more than once there is a certain level of danger.

And hopefully a mod will take this out of the “Police” thread and give it a spot on it’s own. Other than Huang Guang Chen, I think we’re still being pretty civil.

This must qualify for the most idiotic post of the week. :loco:

Please be so kind as to explain that comment, because for most, it is blatantly untrue.

[quote=“Mordeth”]
Nope, I’m saying that I do ENDANGER LIVES…but when I drive a car at normal speeds I ENDANGER LIVES MORE. So unless you’re saying every single car on the island should be removed due to the danger they represent to people on scooters…then I still don’t see what you’re trying to get me to admit. That I ride one of the least dangerous vehicles (with regards to others saftey) on the road? But that there’s still a very small chance it might hurt someone else? I’ve already agreed to this. [/quote]

I really have to take exception to this. You are saying that you driving your bike at 150kph is less dangerous than me driving my car? This has got to be one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever heard.

Noone is saying that every big bike should be removed from the island, why are you suggesting that we need to remove all cars?
What we are trying to say is that by driving recklessly, you are needlessly endangering others. While you drive one of the “least dangerous vehicles with regards to others safety”, by driving it like a maniac it becomes one of the more dangerous vehicles on the road. Making it a quite large chance of causing major injury to yourself (which you don’t care about) or others.

[quote=“Mordeth”][quote=“Tyio Ma”]
Mordeth, Bubba, when you pass me on the road, make sure you’re far enough. I’m pretty nervous lately and might swerve suddenly upon hearing your bikes roaring. Or that might be not me. [/quote]

Is this some lame threat?" You should ride slower or one day a car will smash into you…and it might be me…" something like that? :s [/quote]

Seeing threat in my words is paranoic. As if I’m going to hunt you down waiting for the moment when you are distracted and then…
All that was said - when you do your speeding, you rely on others behaving strictly within rules and having steel nerves. That’s not the case with many people. Speeding adds a lot to the possibility of accident both for you and for others. Yes, it might be me, and I would not be happy to see your body fly over my hood and 30 meters away. In fact, I would feel fucking sick. And my car would probably be just fucked up. But I guess that doesn’t bother you, does it?

Think about it again. I don’t want to comment.

Pure nonsense. Driving a car at normal speed, you do about all you can do to REDUCE danger for yourself and for

Are you able to see the difference? Speeding on your bike, you knowingly endanger yourself and others. Driving a car at normal speed, you still have a chance to hit a scooter, WHO ENDANGERED HIMSELF AND OTHERS BY ACTING LIKE A FUCKWIT. But at least you have a better chance to avoid this idiot.

Joesax is right, this topic has been done over and over again, but there’s probably a reason for that… Strangely I find myself firmly supporting both camps… I spend a lot of time riding Taiwan’s mountain roads (by that I mean anything and everything outside the cities) Whilst I only ever get up to the 200km/h+ mark on sealed dual carriageway elevated freeways, and then only for short periods of time while the road is empty, weather and road conditions are good, I’ve got visbility for at least 2km or so in front and behind me and it is safe to do so for everyone except perhaps me… However I do maintain a fair clip through all manner of surface roads all over the island… usually nothing near the business end of 150km/h +, but considerably faster than 99% of road users, a reflection on their lack of awareness and ability rather than any skill on my part… but there are some things that I just will not do regardless… things like:

  • blast though towns villages at speeds (and preferably noise levels) any higher than your average scooter would…

  • not indicate my intentions to other road users or not keep lights on always for visbilty…

  • keep the bike in anything other than perfect running order and check, fluids, tire pressures, etc before every ride…

  • ride with anything other than ATGAOTT… all the gear all of the time… helmets, back protector, boots, gloves and proper kit with CE approved armour…

  • overcook corners and run wide into the oncoming lane, through lack of ability or deliberately to avoid having to setup a corner entry/exit properly…

  • ride in big packs with bike teams made up of insecure, inexperienced and irresponsible riders, local or otherwise, who ride with a mob mentality, bully other road users, maintain non existent following distances and display poor overtaking/lane discipline between other bikes in the group…

  • overtake without 110% certainty that it is safe and feasible to get past the vehicle in front and get back into my lane at my desired speed without making any other road user adjust their speed or position in any way…

I think it’s that last part that’s the core of the issue for me… I assume (unrealistically for this island) that I will be wholly responsible for my actions on the bike and how they effect my safety and that of other road users, and in turn expect this of other drivers/riders… What I do on the bike should never force anyone else to adjust their speed, focus or position on the road in any way other than what normal common sense driving would mandate ie. look before you maneuver… That said, the comparative speed of acceleration and braking distances on a modern bike allows a much wider window where brief spurts of faster, riskier riding are possible without adversely effecting or risking anyone but yourself

Sorry Mordeth, but this is one consistent feature of your posts, which always manages to infuriate me. However, despite the blustering roar there’s no hard feelings. In some ways it’s paternalistic concern - I very mcuh said exactly what you are saying when I was in my early twenties and was riding like a complete idiot. I was eventually pulled aside by a race tuner uncle (he tuned Graham Crosby’s famous “greenbottle”) a few fairly successful road-racing cousins and even the great Croz himself and told in much the same terms as I’ve told you to stop risking other peoples lives and do it on the track. I’m sure you can find one.

The only thing I can think of is that you

Plasmatron, your take on the subject is much more responsible. If you whizz by me two lanes away on an empty road I’ll just mutter “That asshole will break his neck one day” and forget it immediately. But if you try to squeeze right next to me… If I decide to change lanes at this time, I have little to no chance to see you in the mirror. I presume from your post that kind of stupidity is not your way.

@Plasmatron: I couldn’t have put that better myself. :bravo:

Plasma did a good job at defusing this thread…it’s winding down now. But I’d like to make another comment on the non-speeding car being more dangerous than the speeding bike.

In the 8 years I’ve been here I’ve owned a “big bike”…off and on for 5 of those years. And I’ve spent more time than most riding with the clubs…etc. I’ve seen plenty of bikes go down. And I’ve seen guys lying on the ground shaking and coughing up blood…etc. I’ve even seen a big bike taking a blind corner and hitting a car head on. The car driver was surprisingly unhurt :laughing: , uhh sorry. Anyway…the point is I’ve seen probably around a dozen bikes crash…never seen them hurt anyone other than themselves…I’M SURE IT HAPPENS…there just isn’t a big risk of it happening…that’s all.

I’ve seen quite a few car crashes, too…roughly the same number as bike crashes. I’ve seen Mr. and Mrs.Lee driving calmly and not shoulder check as well as they could have…and a 20 year old on a scooter dies. I’ve seen a blue truck just change lanes and not notice the scooter beside him in his blind spot…she dies. I’ve seen a car stick it’s nose a bit too far into an intersection without realizing it…and someone hits clips his front bumper and goes down…seriously hurt. My roommate was in a cars blind spot when the car turned onto a yeild. Car wasn’t driving “reckless” neither was my roommate (not defensively perhaps…but in no way dangerously)…he was still seriously hurt. My neighbor was doing an estimated 30km/hr when a parked car opened its door…causing her death.

With scooters all over the road…and cars having blind spots…and not always having ample time to check all the mirrors etc…driving a car can easily lead to someone’s death without any “reckless” driving from either vehicle involved. A small mistake in a car can kill someone…a small mistake on a bike…well it maybe could as well…but it’s much much less likely.

Mordeth, it’s funny how you manage to overlook the most simple things you are pointed at. Yes, in case of an accident between a car and a bike the biker will most probably get more damage. But that in no way proves that you are welcome to add to the chaos. That was the point that you tried to object and then just skipped.

No, I’m not overlooking it. I’m just pointing out that every single car/truck/van/bus/SUV on the road represents a greater danger than I.

Hey how’d I get to be the author of this thread???

Ditto to the above except for all the expensive gear (my shit is cheaper)
full leathers won’t fully protect you if they are soaked from the rain, which happens alot in Taiwan.

I never blow through the townships, there are always old people tottering across the roads, plus I stop in them from time to time and I don’t want them to poison my mineral water. Buell and Ducati didn’t slow down.

[quote=“Bubba 2 Guns”]Hey how’d I get to be the author of this thread???[/quote]When a thread metamorphoses, it’s usually a bit of an arbitrary decision where to split it. Your post seemed the logical place in this case as a lot of the discussion that followed referred to it.

It’s turned out to be quite a good discussion. Some new takes on previously-discussed issues. Hope it continues in this way.

I find imagination to be a very powerful safety tool. Imagining people coming out from behind parked vehicles, or imagining a truck barreling towards you in the wrong lane round a blind corner. That kind of active imagination helps me set a reasonable speed for the conditions.