Be nice to read the actual report. Not that it sounds like anything new.
[quote=“Spy Agencies Say Iraq War Worsens Terror Threat”]WASHINGTON, Sept. 23 — A stark assessment of terrorism trends by American intelligence agencies has found that the American invasion and occupation of Iraq has helped spawn a new generation of Islamic radicalism and that the overall terrorist threat has grown since the Sept. 11 attacks.
The classified National Intelligence Estimate attributes a more direct role to the Iraq war in fueling radicalism than that presented either in recent White House documents or in a report released Wednesday by the House Intelligence Committee, according to several officials in Washington involved in preparing the assessment or who have read the final document.
The intelligence estimate, completed in April, is the first formal appraisal of global terrorism by United States intelligence agencies since the Iraq war began, and represents a consensus view of the 16 disparate spy services inside government. Titled “Trends in Global Terrorism: Implications for the United States,’’ it asserts that Islamic radicalism, rather than being in retreat, has metastasized and spread across the globe.
An opening section of the report, “Indicators of the Spread of the Global Jihadist Movement,” cites the Iraq war as a reason for the diffusion of jihad ideology.
The report “says that the Iraq war has made the overall terrorism problem worse,” said one American intelligence official.
More than a dozen United States government officials and outside experts were interviewed for this article, and all spoke only on condition of anonymity because they were discussing a classified intelligence document. The officials included employees of several government agencies, and both supporters and critics of the Bush administration. All of those interviewed had either seen the final version of the document or participated in the creation of earlier drafts. These officials discussed some of the document’s general conclusions but not details, which remain highly classified. [/quote]
These people are going to be somewhere and if they were not in Iraq, then they would be in Afghanistan, Algeria, Kosovo, Chechnya, or even in Europe and Canada planning their next bombing attack on your groveling, postmodern, dialogue-seeking asses. So be grateful to Dubya.
Now that really is a terrible pity, Fred. You see, if you’d stop trying to argue that black is white, you might be more believable. Obviously the high media coverage of the war in Iraq, not to mention the taking out of vital infrastructure and consequent jobs has politicised a great many folks that might otherwise have been happy seeing out their days flogging carpets, drinking mint tea and puffing on hubble bubble pipes.
Wouldn’t it have been somewhat better to accept this and argue how to deal with it?
As far as seeking a dialogue goes, waging a war at the same time seeking dialogue are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Have you read any of Alistair Crooke’s stuff? All quite interesting. conflictsforum.com/
Your argument is flawed on so many levels that I do not know where to begin.
These radicals were present in Europe BEFORE Afghanistan, Iraq or any war on terror. The problem has been long in the making and if anyone’s Muslims are becoming increasingly radicalized, it is those residing in Europe (the nations proposing peaceful dialogue) as opposed to those in the evil, warmongering US. What accounts for this difference?
Prior to the excessive media coverage (courtesy of US action) these radicals were very active in Afghanistan, Lebanon, Palestine, the West Bank, Kosovo, Chechnya, Algeria, Somalia, Sudan, Pakistan, Indonesia, the Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore, Kashmir and India. So welcome to the party pal. They have been around a long time. If you think that they are emerging because of Iraq, well then I have some swampland (er investment-grade beach-front property in Florida) that I would like to sell you!
Why are the Afghans and Iraqis the least supportive of these “radicals?” I would imagine that those suffering from the problem and humiliation of US troops would be most “radicalized” but is that what we are seeing? AND our involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan will eventually help reduce the number of radical governments. IF there were more press freedom in the Middle East and a more literate population, then PERHAPS, these kinds of rumors that pass for “truth” among those most inclined to become radicalized can be lessened and toned down. Why I should be optimistic, however, escapes me since so many of the “literate, well-educated and sensible” voices primarily among the left in the West are just as mindlessly eager to latch onto these rumors and raise their shrill voices of outrage against the atrocities of the evil Bushitler regime.
Ultimately, I guess we can merely live in hope that the mindlessly foolish elements of both the West and Muslim world will someday disappear. Perhaps, one can blow itself out of existence and the other can toke its way of of existence? Either way, Darwinist evolution may make us all safer and the world a better place. I will pray for speedier such developments!
Well…1st of all blaming “Dubya” or whatever childish derogatory term one wishes to insert is too agenda driven to rate serious consideration.
Has the War in Iraq given the terrorist groups a rallying point? Of couse it has. Just as their attacks on the US, Spain, London and other countires and places thru-out the world has provided a focal ooint for anti-terr actions.
Who is surprised by this? If so, please remove your head from your nether regions before continuing.
As mentioned, these group types have existed in one form or another for a very long time. Both in the US, Britain, Italy, Germany, the Middle East, Japan, the Filipines and many other countries.
The increased media coverage - and in many cases collusion with - the various terr groups has greatly increased their blip on the screen. And this has been magnificently exploited by the now media savy members of these groups.
It is unwise to denigrate their technological expertise or their dedication to whatever they decide their goal is to be. And they also understand that it is a long term conflict. For them it is bit-by-bit warfare. Results achieved in the long term by individual and seemingly un-connected terrorist actions.
Also as mentioned, this report does not really express anything new. Its a pretty self-evident conclusion.
War is a constant state of flux. Look for a new announcement tommorrow to satify the media appetite.
When can we hope that the left will finally admit that Bush never said Saddam or Iraq were directly involved with 911? Iraq, however, is involved if we are looking at dysfunctional Middle Eastern dictatorships that helped fuel and fund the rise of this extremism and that is why Bush said we need to drain the swamps. Iraq was such a swamp; Afghanistan was another. Honestly, I have given up on expectations that anyone can read with any critical abilities these days. Definitely, school reform is much needed in North America. It is posts like these that remind me to redouble my efforts to get school reform going. IF this passes for the enlightened citizen that is supposed to defend our democracies and way of life, I may have to start boning up on my Arabic and learning to kneel and prostrate myself before the conquering thugocracies that will soon sweep over our civilization.
I’m quietly confident Fred Smith will cope admirably boning up on his Arabic whether on his knees or in the prone position no matter how many brutal thugs he has lined up behind him. I’m more concerned at where our new “feeling” Fred went. Then again, concern for the reading ability of America’s kiddies and the vast pool of government spending that inevitably requires are interesting hints at a softer underbelly.
I remain unconvinced at the finite pool argument that you seem to be employing, Fred, when clearly an intelligence agency with dare I say it more eyes and ears on the ground is saying that there has, in effect, been more folks politicised by the dispute. As it is, I agree with a broader interpretation of your answer that it doesn’t really matter. There maybe more trying to break through the fence, but that fence has become considerably stronger would be my take.
But a further question, in the process of draining the pools, why didn’t your lot start with Saudi Arabia? Clearly that is where the vast majority of funds earmarked for Slamo 'ner do wells has arisen. Straight to the source and all that.
Damn. I am not going to be able to sit down for a week after that searing slam. Haha. Got me on that one. I will word my statements more carefully in the future. Be sure and tell Broon Ale!
Possibly but given that we are killing a lot more of the would-be martyrs than before, I guess we have arrived at a win-win situation. They want to die and I want to see them killed. Hurray! Problem solved. We have a positive syncretic relationship that I for one would like to encourage.
Exactly.
We have done quite a bit already with Saudi Arabia so it is not as if “nothing is being done.” There is a problem but given the foolish al Qaeda attacks on what had been the number one source of funding, well, let’s take our victories where we get them and appreciate the stuipidity of that particular move. Do we need to do more. Yes. Will it take time. Yes. Back to you.
Expecting neoconservatives to eliminate Islamic terrorism is like expecting a pyromaniac to put out a fire.
The flames are just going to keep getting higher. The fake firemen are just going to keep tossing gasoline on the fire and denying that things are getting worse and everyone is going to wonder just what the fuck is really going on until it dawns on them one day that they’ve been had by some people who just aren’t well.
Keep up the good work. You are onto us but you are voice crying out in the wilderness. Soon, it will be too late and all the oil wells will belong to me and by the way you are all fired.
Perhaps you should reread the article, Fred. The conclusion was not that the Iraq war drew pre-existing terrorists to Iraq (something that of course did happen). Instead, the conclusion which is relevant here, and which you’ve either missed or chosen to ignore, is that “the American invasion and occupation of Iraq has helped [color=red]spawn a new generation of Islamic radicalism[/color] and that the [color=red]overall terrorist threat has grown [/color]since the Sept. 11 attacks…”
It’s not that the terrorism problem has simply moved to Iraq. Rather, the report “says that [color=red]the Iraq war has made the overall terrorism problem worse[/color].”
Open your eyes, Fred. Bush’s policies have made the problem worse, and the whole world can see this. [color=blue]“The Iraq war has worsened the terrorist threat to the United States.”[/color] Not really that tough to comprehend, is it?
I understand what the authors are talking about but I disagree that we are making matters worse in the sense that is implied. This was a leaked report after all and I have no doubt that the journalists in question are not hesitant about pointing out certain “convenient” facts but I wonder if the whole report follows that and draws the same conclusions. Again, there are lots of disaffected youth in the Muslim world much as there used to be in America’s inner cities. Time for reform. The problem would have gotten had we waited or done nothing. In the meantime, I think a very credible possibility that those turning to violence will meet death should do something to deter others from following the same path. We have tried understanding just as we used to talk about “environments” and “dysfunctional families” with our inner cities and the problem got worse despite the dialogue. When we have killed or locked up enough of thise “radicals,” I predict that we too will find success. Obviously, I believe I am right, you believe that you are right. Only time will tell. But let’s not pretend that this was not a serious and growing problem BEFORE Bush. We are naturally not going to be popular with those that we are fighting. When the chips fall however, we will have been better off to knock some sense into some of these addled heads. Wanna die? Great. I got a bullet for you! See. Dialogue and cooperation do work!
