Step up folks and wager on my Visa status! Place your bets!

They don’t need your passport. As long as you send money that’s all that matters.

Interesting that their resident visa blurb says “two months” but the “regulations” (cough cough) says six months:

Article 11

The term

Thank you Hexuan :bravo:
You have helped to prove my point…

That the beaurocratic left hand of the Taiwanese visa issuing system hasnt a clue what the right hand is doing.

I noticed that little gem of a fudge up as well. All the other west coast TECO sites (LA, SF, Chicago) say different things…2 months, 6 months, etc etc

What is one to do but pay the money, cross your fingers, and pray for dumb luck

[quote=“derek1978”]

(I would expect US AIT persons to speak Taiwanese / Mandarin in Taiwan as well)[/quote]

I’ve worn socks that speak better Taiwanese/Mandarin than the U.S. AIT staff.

I vote that you’ll get permanent residency/citizenship and that they will send mayor Ma over to your house to hand you your Taiwanese passport in person. My reason for this is because, as anyone who has ever had to deal with officialdom in Taiwan knows, whatever the rules, whatever the laws, and no matter how well you follow correct procedures the only outcome you ever get is the exact opposite of the one that all logic and common sense predicts will happen.

Applications submitted correctly will be denied on the first attempt. The second and third attempts will also be denied (for contradictory reasons.) It’s only when you get to attempt four or five and are expecting to be denied, again, that you will succeed.

Your application will fail this time for 2 reasons:
1.) You didn’t send your passport. The bit of the website that says “Requirements - A passport valid for at least six months.” means you actually have to give them said passport, not just be in possession of one. True, what the site says isn’t clear and you’d be forgiven for expecting a government information site to have been checked and triple checked be a team of experts for clarity and accuracy. It wasn’t. Welcome to Taiwan.

2.) You caused confusion by applying for 2 visas at once. When you are applying for something in Taiwan your aim is not to demonstrate that you meet the requirements and have followed all the correct procedures and regulations; rather it is simply to convince the desk monkey (DM) dealing with your application that his (or her) arse is not going to be the one swinging in the breeze if something goes wrong. The DM does not know the rules. He has only been in the job for 3 months and will most likely move onto another job within a year. If something in an application does not exactly match expectations in a simple and obvious format DM’s reaction is never to look deeper into the matter and try to work out what’s right or wrong. It’s always easier and safer to just stamp ‘Denied’ and send it back.

Some guidelines that I try to follow when dealing with Taiwanese desk monkeys:

  1. Don’t quote the rulebook at them; it causes them to become confused and distressed.
  2. When told to get something translated, stamped etc., or a told to supply additional documents, don’t bother. See also tip #3
  3. If at first you don’t succeed simply collect all your documents, take them to the next counter and submit again.

Good luck anyway.

[quote=“derek1978”]I will give them a call tomorrow. If they require my physical passport, I will just overnight mail it to them or drive it up to Seattle.[/quote]Derek -

[color=red]NEVER EVER MAIL ANYTHING TO A TECO OFFICE UNLESS ITS 1ST CLASS REGISTERED TO A SPECIFIC PERSON AND THEY HAVE TO SIGN FOR RECEIPT !!![/color]

Any mail will languish undelivered in the storage closet that passes for their mail-room.
Even if you put a persons name on the envelope it will mean nothing.
ANY MAIL TO A TECO OFFICE MUST BE DELIVERED TO A SPECIFIC PERSON AND YOU MUST HAVE A SIGNED RECEIPT before they will acknowledge receiving it.

[quote=“TainanCowboy”][quote=“derek1978”]I will give them a call tomorrow. If they require my physical passport, I will just overnight mail it to them or drive it up to Seattle.[/quote]Derek -

[color=red]NEVER EVER MAIL ANYTHING TO A TECO OFFICE UNLESS ITS 1ST CLASS REGISTERED TO A SPECIFIC PERSON AND THEY HAVE TO SIGN FOR RECEIPT !!![/color]

Any mail will languish undelivered in the storage closet that passes for their mail-room.
Even if you put a persons name on the envelope it will mean nothing.
ANY MAIL TO A TECO OFFICE MUST BE DELIVERED TO A SPECIFIC PERSON AND YOU MUST HAVE A SIGNED RECEIPT before they will acknowledge receiving it.[/quote]

I always Fedexed mine stuff to the NYC office. No problems.

[quote=“Rik”]
3. If at first you don’t succeed simply collect all your documents, take them to the next counter and submit again.[/quote]

Sage advice. If you don’t like the first answer, simply ask again. You know as sure as shootin’ that if you come back again with that hard-to-find document, the second desk monkey will ask you for the first document or tell you that you never needed it in the first place.

:wall: :wall: :wall:

Ha I never had any of these problems back home, but have run into it a million times here! Just try try again, more often than not you find out you didn’t need to do or have half of what you where led to believe :wink: . Then again sometimes you need twice as much (documentation etc) :loco: .

Get used to this exact feeling, Derek…it doesn’t get any better, sorry to say! :help:

My visa was


[color=red]DENIED![/color]

:fume: :fume: :fume: :fume: :fume:

I called the Seattle TECO today to see if they received my application. They did. She said that it is denied because they claim that Kai Nan University does not Exist!

I politely told her it did and that she could verify this on the MOE web site. She got rude and said it is denied and that is final then hung up the phone! :fume: :fume: :fume:

I Immediately called back and got a different lady. I explained the same situation. SHE COULDNT SPEAK ENGLISH! :fume:

5 minutes later I was talkig to the 1st lady again. She said it was denied and that is final. NO REFUND! :fume:

I called my fiancee. She said she was ready to jump on a plane and kick some Taiwanese ass in Seattle! :noway: She was pissed hard core! She couldnt belive that 1.) I was denied…2.) She hung up on me…3.) It was easier for her to get in the US than for me to get into Taiwan!

I have since called SF TECO and LA TECO they both said that Kai Nan IS an approved school!!! But they cant process my visa since I am out of their jurisdiction. I asked if they could contact Seattle and pass along the good news and they said no. Just to “keep trying”!!! WTF!!! :fume: :fume:

UPDATE: I received further information that Kai Nan University is ONLY approved for Bachelor or higher education. NOT for language study.

I asked Seattle TECO to change my visa purpose to Tourism for 60 days. They refused. She said I cant apply for another visa period. That my Visa has been denied and I cant apply for any other kind of visa because, she says she knows the real reason why I want in…to study Mandarin at an unapproved school. She said I can only re-apply with an approved school. I asked her what those schools were and she said she didnt know! WTF!!! I said, how is that possible? You siad you had a list, may I see it so I can know which school to apply to. She said NO, it is for internal use only. I asked if there was a web site I could go to that has an official list. She said she was too busy and to search google. WTF!!! I asked again and she said to go to Seattle TECO website. I told her that the Seattle TECO website has no such list and that their website is incorrect (you cant get a resident visa for only 2 months stay) she said I was wasting her time. I asked again, and she said to go to BOCA website. I told her that there is NO list on the BOCA site either. The only list is the MOE list and it HAS KaiNan listed!!! She then said, she was going to hang up. I asked for her superior, I asked to talk to her boss. She said Taiwan is my boss. (What a Smart ASS!) at this point I was BOILING with anger, but calmly and firmly I told her I would be in direct contact with the MOE, KaiNan University, and BOCA and I would be calling back. We both hung up.


[color=red]This is BULL SHIT! Utter and complete BULL SHIT![/color]

Any ideas what I can do??? Or am I just screwed?

Sorry to hear that. They do shit like that unfortunately. You probably pissed them of a bit with the two visa applications. But the Taiwan visa office people are simply small-minded scum, especially the waste of spunk who runs the Hong Kong office. My beef with him though is nothing compared to the story of the Irish guy who was kicked out of Taiwan after his wife died of cancer. How do you like that?

What you have to remember is that they pick the most racist and xenophobic people to work in the ministry of foreign affairs. IMHO you’re mad anyway trying to get a visa from the States. Why don’t you just try for one in an Asian office, say Hanoi or Bangkok, and failing that, come in on a landing visa and try and find somewhere that will get you a visa.

You can’t expect Taiwanese government officials sent to America to speak English! Madness! And hanging up the phone? I am amazed they actually answer the phone. They certainly don’t in Taipei or Hong Kong.

Derek -
Welcome to SOP for Taiwan beauracracy.
Just hang in and keep trying.

oh bad luck dude, clearly you’ve got an officious jackass there. That sucks :s It will proably work out in the long run, but best of luck. :wink: ha maybe try the Canadian office (vancouver) I hear they are a site lot nicer… for information at least, they’ll probably be more amicial to helping you find out what schools are on the list.
Either that or come over on a landing Visa, and either just leave evey month, or on your first trip out (you mentioned Thailand) try to apply there :slight_smile: good luck.

Don’t be deterred - don’t give up. Bureaucrats require bureaucratic tactics - not logic. Also to be fair, internal communication between gov. bureaus whilst improved compared to the dark ages, still sucks. Remember like any public sector employee, they just want to get through the day having accomplished the minimal possible.

Slowly collect all of the paperwork that you’ve ever prepared. When you visit a gov. office, always get an extra copy of the application form or policy statement. Copy all of your applications. After about a year or two you will have extensive file that weighs about 10kgs. Carry with you anytime you visit any gov. office. By this time you will have on hand any form they could possibly ask for as well as the required copies and headshots.

At this point the mindless bureaucrats you work with will begin to ask you for copies since they will likely not have seen the memo that you have copies of. They will be pleased that you just give them the documents required by thier bizantine system without a hassle. Of course, they will never blindly accept any documents shown to them by a foreigner, but it does change the tone of the discussion to your favor.

Smile, grovel, you can think “f-you” in your head just don’t show it, grind them into submission with your persistence (like Fred :wink: )

I just got off the phone with TLI

They were very apologetic and friendly…although a bit rushed.

I explained my situation.

The lady I spoke with was PISSED! (that is putting it lightly)

She said that their “government screwed things up again” and that they would work something out to at least get me in Taiwan by the start of classes. She said that they are overloaded with students stuck in taiwan with no way to renew their visa since April 1st. A lot of students are screwed just like me. :shocker:

I guess somone forgot the guanxi on this one.

Way to go Taiwan, you really know how to roll out the welcome wagon dont ya! :upyours:

Shitty end of tyhe stick Derek, but it does as you cabn see, happen all too often. Perservere. I agree with Hex, you may have pissed them off with two applications.

Come to China, you will be welcomed with open arms.

HG

Sorry to be mean but this has really been bothering me…

I find it odd that everyone is joining the pity party but no one seems to think that it was awfully cocky of the OP to send three visa applications “just for fun”. This person has made pages and pages of entries on big plans for his life in Taiwan (talk about counting your chickens before they hatch), then bumbles the single most important step–getting a visa to come here. Let’s look at from the Seattle office’s possible point of view–let’s see, we’ve got hundreds of applications from documented businesspeople coming to pump hundreds of thousands of dollars in our economy, or an application from some guy that badmouths us all over a public forum–who do we pick for a visa? I have gotten a couple of visas from the Seattle office as a student with no problem and they all spoke English fine.

I hesitate to give out advice as every situation is different and success cannot be guaranteed. However, I’d get your ticket to Taipei, then an onward ticket with a departure set to a date sometime longer than 30 days, but within 60 days (you can cancel it and reschedule it when you get here). Apply strictly for visitation purposes–no indication of work or study intentions-- and show a ticket into and out of Taiwan. Explain to them that you need multiple entries because you will likely do a lot of side trips, coming into and out of Taiwan more than once on your intended trip. This is how I’ve managed to get 60 day ME visas. I think it’d be easier for you to go that route and get your language school to sort the rest for you when you get here. It involves telling a fib, but sometimes fibbing is less complicated and more likely to succeed than the truth where Taiwanese bureaucracy is concerned.

[quote=“Flicka”]Sorry to be mean but this has really been bothering me…

I find it odd that everyone is joining the pity party but no one seems to think that it was awfully cocky of the OP to send three visa applications “just for fun”. This person has made pages and pages of entries on big plans for his life in Taiwan (talk about counting your chickens before they hatch), then bumbles the single most important step–getting a visa to come here. Let’s look at from the Seattle office’s possible point of view–let’s see, we’ve got hundreds of applications from documented businesspeople coming to pump hundreds of thousands of dollars in our economy, or an application from some guy that badmouths us all over a public forum–who do we pick for a visa? I have gotten a couple of visas from the Seattle office as a student with no problem and they all spoke English fine.[/quote]

awfully cocky? Hardly! It was awfuly nice of the TECO to post false info on their site, to give false info over the phone, and awful nice of them to never return a single phone call or email. I have a very hard time believeing that they are processing hundreds of applications. Lets be realistic here, especially if you are going to throw around accusations. I bad mouth them? Please! Are you fro real? Since when is relating an actual experience bad mouthing? If no one ever complained then nothing would ever change. Word of mouth is the most powerful form of advertising and can affect a business in a positive way or negative way.

I enclosed a very polite and informative cover letter with my application stating the reason why I submitted different applications. I explained that their information was vague and I wanted to make sure I had the right forms ready for them. No harm in that! All they have to do is look at the three pieces of papers and decide which works best. A monkey could do it its so easy! I fail to see how this could complicate things. I deal with far more stressful and complicated forms every day in my job and I dont go around denying people a new home because I cant figure out which form to use! The SF TECO even told me that it was SMART and WISE to do what I did, They said that way if one form could not be accepted it would save both them and me time with having to re-fill out the forms again!

Perhaps you are better at undertanding bad chinglish than I am. To get a person who answers the phone for the VISA office who admits to only being able to say hello and hold please in english is not impressive and annoying, when it is in the US at an office that is supposed to be for the help of english speaking clientel.

Last, but certainly not least. I bumbled it??? You are so wrong my friend. If anyone bumbled anything, it was TLI. If you read any of my other posts you would know that TLI screwed up BIG time and issued FALSE documents. Turns out that their association with Kai Nan University is not legit in the eyes of the MOE. TLI gave false info, TECO gave false info, I dotted all my i’s crossed all my t’s and did all I could. I was polite, patient, and cooperative. Seattle TECO was exactly the opposite.

Why on earth would you DEFEND bad service, condone RUDE behavior, and show empathy for a system that is very clearly flawed - not only in Seattle but all over the world!?!?!?! :loco:

Counting my chickens before they hatch? You are clearly lost. Perhaps you are talking about someone else? If Im counting anything before they hatch they would be ducks!