Naw rantheman, you aint piss me off, but you’d be suprised at what I really think.
But, now, isn’t it interesting that the Alpha male in “Stepford Wives,” the perceived man’s man, was created and controlled by a woman?
What’s your take on that? Or did your wiring short-circuit when you saw that scene?
[quote=“aprimo”]But, now, isn’t it interesting that the Alpha male in “Stepford Wives,” the perceived man’s man, was created and controlled by a woman?
What’s your take on that? Or did your wiring short-circuit when you saw that scene?[/quote]
There’s no contradiction at all.
Men, self-assured ones at least, don’t have a problem with strong women. What women fail to understand (perhaps this is you) is that there’s a “deal” or “price” that comes with this. The “deal” or “price” that the 50s American women and Asian women of traditional Asian societies understand is that their men get the love and pampering (aka ego stroking) that they’re used to, feel is their rightful perogative etc. In return for this, women are given the keys to the household. Empress Dowager? Dragon Lady? That’s most mothers in a traditional Asian home. No intelligent man gets in the way of that.
So where the problem is that women want that same “deal” but without paying the “price” which is that they’re not going to give what men want. However, Asian women haven’t learned from their westernized sisters. They’ll give what the man lacks in western societies, the TLC that have dried up to never return. A lot of men have problems adjusting to this. So it’s no wonder that so many men find Asia to be “heaven” where women are women and men can just be themselves without having someone tell them to shove their chauvinism. For a western man, that’s “liberating”.
Sorry YC that’s not clear to me… PM me with a break(dumb)down… :bravo:
I was discussing this with a girlfriend of miine, and it also goes without saying that a man in the west wants a woman with an objective in life. I know that if I told a guy that I don’t want a career blah blah blah, I would be gettin some strange looks. Or so it seems… Believe me, I would love to sit on my arse at home, taking care of it, and have the hubby come home and I take care of ‘him’ but doesn’t all that seem to be an extention of childhood? At least on some level? Why is it nessary for me to assuge my man’s manhood, outside the bedroom, on a daily basis? I can’t work a job or have a career I love and also, let my man know that he is appreaciated in every sense of the letter? Really what it boils down to is a power stuggle. I think what men are seeking in the Asian female, is that reminader of feminity that is sorely missing from the western female.
Every guy I know could care less if his future wife has career aspirations or not. Seems to me all that matters to them (and myself, for that matter) is having someone that they ultimately feel comfortable with at any given time and with whom they share a genuine, strong affection and connection. Give them that in their woman, and everthing else pretty much becomes moot, even career choice or lack thereof. That said, they’d never hold their wife back from having a career if that’s what she wanted.
Then again…I am from California…so…at least some of us Cali males may be somewhat loopy… :loco: 
Damn… I haven’t seen it yet.
Let’s put a big [color=red]
spoilers
[/color]on this one. I didn’t see it yet either.
the points i wanted to make (and thank you for not letting me get carried away) are as follows:
-
women say they want 50/50 but it seldom turns out that way
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a man should NEVER leave or put his career on hold for his wife’s. it is a mistake! it’s like a universal rule. you will regret it .
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women’s magazines contain errored information about what women really want. if youas a man think that by reading them you have a discovered a textbook to women’s minds you are mistaken. what they say and what they do are two different things.
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treat a woman too good and it’ll be YOU crying in the divorce court. let he who has wisdom understand. it’s high level stuff but try to stretch it.
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if your wife doesn’t respect you (as the leader) then your children will follow her example. if you treat your wife like a house slave your children will follow your example. both bad.
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90% of the single women over 30 on yahoo.com.tw DESERVE to be single women on yahoo.com.tw, posibbly forever.
i have no agenda but the end of the over female bias in this world. that’s all.
ran the man
[quote=“rantheman”]the points I wanted to make (and thank you for not letting me get carried away) are as follows:
-
women say they want 50/50 but it seldom turns out that way
-
a man should NEVER leave or put his career on hold for his wife’s. it is a mistake! it’s like a universal rule. you will regret it .
-
women’s magazines contain errored information about what women really want. if youas a man think that by reading them you have a discovered a textbook to women’s minds you are mistaken. what they say and what they do are two different things.
-
treat a woman too good and it’ll be YOU crying in the divorce court. let he who has wisdom understand. it’s high level stuff but try to stretch it.
-
if your wife doesn’t respect you (as the leader) then your children will follow her example. if you treat your wife like a house slave your children will follow your example. both bad.
-
90% of the single women over 30 on yahoo.com.tw DESERVE to be single women on yahoo.com.tw, posibbly forever.
I have no agenda but the end of the over female bias in this world. that’s all.
ran the man[/quote]
Once upon a time, a very wise person told me that “Everything is negotiable”. I think that axiom applies particularly so in long-term relationships/marriages as rule number 1. I understand the points but I think a list such as this is too limiting. It’s more important to distill what angst or attitudes a person has toward relationships into general principles. The principles act as guides, not four-corner immovable fixed objects. Because, rule number 1 says that, “everything is negotiable”.
Not that we have such great role models but couples who have been married more or less happily for 40-50 years always seem to say that the keys to the long-term union were (1) communication, (2) compromise (i.e. flexibility), (3) commitment. That’s been the lessons I’ve distilled from chatting with the few I personally know and reading about long-term marriages.
I think flexibility is key because you need to account for the different phases in one’s life and the good/bad times. Knowing when to “lose” in order to “win” is another important skill. Winning is not about what you get at the end of the day, year, life. Winning to me is whether or not you and your life-partner will still be together at the end.
dear yellowcart man,
i agree with what you’re saying (by the way this is probably my last post on this topic, maybe one more, because i have other things to do). i hope that what i’ve shared can be as you’ve said, a point to consider only. a lot of you guys are probably 10 years younger than me, and if i can save you some heartache, i’m happy. sorry if i get carried away. my sense of humor is a little rough.
ran the man
This would be trolling. Against da rulez. Don’t go there.
If this is true – if you really have managed to reach almost pensionable age – then you must have lived your life with your eyes shut as regards women.
I suspect that in fact, you’re probably 10 years younger then a lot of the posters here. And it shows. I hope you eventually learn something, for your sake. 
[quote]
- women say they want 50/50 but it seldom turns out that way[/quote]
No relationship is ever 50/50. Any way I wouldn’t want half man, half the time anyway…
[quote]
2. a man should NEVER leave or put his career on hold for his wife’s. it is a mistake! it’s like a universal rule. you will regret it .[/quote]
What man has ever put his career on hold for his wife?
I know my father didnt even when his wife was dying of breast cancer.if you are refering to the movie, well hell, [color=red]ITS A MOVIE [/color]
[quote]
3. women’s magazines contain errored information about what women really want. if youas a man think that by reading them you have a discovered a textbook to women’s minds you are mistaken. what they say and what they do are two different things.
[/quote]The only time you should be reading are mags is when 1)you are gay, trying to find something good to converse about 2)a metrosexual. Besides, HM, Maxium,GQ etc are the bible to what men think?
[quote]
4. treat a woman too good and it’ll be YOU crying in the divorce court. let he who has wisdom understand. it’s high level stuff but try to stretch it.
[/quote] Soundssss like somebody got burned and didnt/hasn’t gotten over it… Poor baby. (enter violin muzack)
You and your wife could be The Cleavers today iin america and your kids could come home and still cuss you out or kill you(depending on the part of country)…See the movie [color=darkblue]“Thirteen”[/color] since we are using movies for examples?
No they deserve to be protect from ranting loco’s like you who are pissed off that they got kicked to the curb because someone wasn’t playin their silly little games…
[quote]
I have no agenda but the end of the over female bias in this world. that’s all.
ran the man[/quote]
Go right ahead and end that ‘bias’ and let me know how’s your sex life afterward…
Dr.Rantheman, I suggest that before you give advice again, that come up with a better hypothesis than some wack Hollywood movie… Or this wo[color=darkred]MAN[/color] will have to break it down for you agian. and you don’t want [color=darkred]
the breakdown
[/color] from a sista, do ya? 
what if i’d started this whole thing with , i think women should be able to do anything they want, blah blah , blah, as nauseum nobody would have complained. but because you guys are of a more liberal persuasion, you attacked me. me not my points. you never even considered a lot of things:
for instance one older gentleman and namatestore said things that they have no knowledge of. okay it goes like this:
everyday, i open my wallet and look at my son and daughter’s picture, the son and daughter i can’t be with. the son and daughter that i stayed home and changed diapers of while my wife had a career.this is what i have lost to career women. and the thanks i got for doing that? get out. i left the job market for years to take care of my children.and the way i got treated by other men and even women? loser!
i married a cold fish. nearly zero sex life. the first girl i ever knew. how we had children is a miracle. and they’re the ONLY good thing out of the whole 5 years.
One of them womens libbers, named Susan Faludi, finally went and wrote a book about howcum men are so pissed off these days. It’s called “Backlash.” Ain’t half bad, specially the part about what it’s really like for a man to be a porn star. If you can’t get it up one day, you’re out of a job. And that’s kind of a metaphor for our whole lives.
The gist is, the old social structures have been falling apart (not just marriage and the family but also our economic roles) so of course men feel defensive and uncertain about their lives. And half the time the men blame it on ourselves–we think we must have failed as a man, when we lose our job or the wife leaves us or whatever.
This discussion makes me think about how nervous my girlfriend was about marriage. Not because of me, but because of people like the couple next door, who regularly cuss each other out where the whole neighborhood can hear. She’s afraid of waking up one day and finding she’s married to a domineering type of husband, who doesn’t listen to her feelings. She knows I’m not like that, but the institution of marriage scares her (or used to). So you see, it’s not just men who go through this.
Another example: My father left my mother after about 30 years of marriage. Just moved out one day. She didn’t know what was coming. Everything her life had meant to her before, was utterly changed, in a way that she had little control over. And as we all know, this kind of thing happens a thousand times a day.
An interesting question is, given the collapse of the old social order, is it possible to set up some alternative source of values and community? (Religions often do this, or try to.) If so, what sort of values would tend to make us happiest in the long run? And–this is a bit New Age-y, so forgive me–what kind of psychological or spiritual changes would we have to undergo personally, in order to make this possible?
This means having the courage to honestly look at ourselves, and work with things like (picking a few at random here) anger and selfishness. These things have their proper place, don’t get me wrong. But we have to think about what part of us is running the show. (A wise man said a man who can’t get angry isn’t worth very much–but a man who can’t control his anger isn’t worth very much either!)
Come on, give rantheman a break. He has been through some tough times with his (western) wife and now he is letting it out here on Forumosa. Don’t you have some sympathy for his situation of his marriage gone wrong?
I have to say, I am slightly tired of the western feminist movement myself, where everything is turned into a struggle for the liberation of womenkind. Can’t we all just get along? There were times when women’s liberation really was an issue and I don’t want to turn back time to the 50s. But today there is quite a lot equality already and in some ways (sexual harrasment suits for instance) things have gotten out of hand.
I can understand that under those “constant struggle”-conditions some people start to have fond memonies of the time when “men could be men, and women were women”.
[quote=“rantheman”]everyday, i open my wallet and look at my son and daughter’s picture, the son and daughter I can’t be with. the son and daughter that i stayed home and changed diapers of while my wife had a career.this is what I have lost to career women. and the thanks I got for doing that? get out. i left the job market for years to take care of my children.and the way I got treated by other men and even women? loser!
i married a cold fish. nearly zero sex life. the first girl I ever knew. how we had children is a miracle. and they’re the ONLY good thing out of the whole 5 years.[/quote]
Ouch. 
I take back all the bad things I said about you. Now I understand where you’re coming from. Just remember that not ALL women, not ALL Western women are as evil as your ex-wife. You got hurt, very badly hurt by one particular person; don’t take out your pain and justifiable rage on an entire gender.
It’s amazing how you approach the issue can determine the response toward that issue.
I think rantheman anecdote is something lots of guys know and fear. There’s no easy solution to Screaming Jesus’s points either. The erosion of old social norms have only made previously important social institutions “quaint”. It’s a real night market out there and lots of people want to be out there playing and bargaining for that deal.
What did “Wargames” tell us? The only way to win is not to play the game?
i’m trying to stay off the dating forum because my friend told me it’s not theraputic for me. i just have one more bit of sharing.
i and my 4 siblings were raised by my grandma and her two sisters. mom divorced when i was 9, after dad’s philandering and beating the crap out of her got old. i swore i would never be like that. my 3 mommies tried to steer me to strong male role models, but in louisiana… i was a brainy kid and didn’t like rednecks. i was raised in the church and grandma didn’t want me to drink so i didn’t. that made me kind of not one of the guys. i was never a sissy, but you can see where being the loner can get you. grandma’s mags were the only thing around the house so i picked them up to browse one day. all these ladies said they wanted a sweet guy, so i figured, well macho doesn’t work. by the way if you guys are thinking i was fag or metro you’re wrong. fishing, shooting guns, karate lessons,chatting up babettes, and cruising with my dudes was the norm. they just didn’t call me when they wanted to booze it up.
after my marriage, i realized this pussy attitude got me in trouble. there are such things as ‘predator women’ out there. never had a girlfriend so didn’t know. i was waiting for miss right like the revival preacher said. “christian women don’t operate like the world so you don’t have to worry. God will reveal.”
women are animal just like men are animal. revival preacher didn’t know jack. and chrisitianity could do well to put the man back in Jesus. i mean, he was doing construction. he was manly. i really think there is an anti-male slant in the church nowadays. they suck away your manly initiative with ’ are you sure? have you prayed about it?". this kind of super indecisiveness is not good.
am i getting off subject here? sorry. i think a lot of girls are hiding behind religion too. they’re just like every other woman whether they want to admit it or not. they didn’t lose their woman side even though they’re trying to act nueter.
what’s my point? hell i dont know. maybe, hang around guys, act like a guy, smell like a guy, get girls, live normally. i don’t know. i still have my faith, still read the Bible, but church has disillusioned me. i just wish i had met this cinde-freakin-rella from heaven that the preacher was talking about, because i haven’t seen her. all these church girls have excuses because deep down inside they’re scared of coitus interuptus. and they hide behind the new neuterism that the church is spewing out. i won’t get mad at any comments, so don’t worry guys. oops time for my Zoloft. gotta go.
ran, the man on zoloft
Maybe you ought to start drinking instead of whatever it is you’re on. Put down the Zoloft and pick up the Jim Beam. Couldn’t make you less coherent.