Stray dog problem

Just to add: removing the food source causes the dogs to have fewer and smaller litters, which is the real reason the population decreases, rather than being due to death by starvation (though I’m sure some dogs would starve).

Logic and politics do not always mix well. :laughing:

Logic and politics do not always mix well. :laughing:[/quote]Politics? Yeah sure, but the more people who support the same approach to solving the stray problem, the more politicians will be put in a position where they have to advocate the same approach to get the votes. OTOH, the more people question or suggest using counter-productive measures, the more counter-productive things will be…

Let me repeat the statement, and make a question out of it: Is it more logical to adopt a proven method of drastically reducing the stray population than by acting on conjecture and speculation and implementing a possibly counter-productive program?

For the record, I still can’t believe that it was suggested in this thread that a whole pack of dogs be killed for a couple days worth of peace and quiet. I still can’t believe that some of you would advocate shooting dogs with a bb gun. I still can’t believe that you, jd, find it worse to see a dead cat on your lawn than the act of actually torturing and killing the cat through poisoning.

This thread leaves me in shock.

Well gosh bob, maybe it was because my young son and his friends had been playing around the area where the dead cats were, and became very curious about the smell, and then discovered the dead cats.

Mucha Man has stated before that the Taiwanese are capable of learning new tricks, and I agree. But until the government actually does something new, we’re all blowing smoke up our asses.

And another question – does anyone REALLY believe that the stray dog question is frontmost enough in the minds of enough voters that voters who feel strongly about one method or the other will bring enough pressure to get through the thick, money-controlled heads of elected officials in Taiwan to influence their behavior?

It would take the heck of a lot of pressure by very organized and quite large blocks of voters islandwide to bring about enough change by politicians to get anything done that way. Like it or not, believing that “if we believe hard enough and convince enough others, we can get the government to do something” is not likely to fly on this one. You’re fighting too much inertia, and it’s inertia made more intransigent by money interests.

It would be nice if voters could really effect change by communicating with their elected officials, but the more I watch politics (even/especially in the US) the less I believe in it. Sadly.

Certainly, if we all thought the way you do, it would seem that giving up is the best thing.

As mentioned previously, the R.O.C. government here already supports CNR of cats and has just recently begun throwing money at organizations similar to ours to spay and neuter free-roaming dogs.

So I’m not really sure what your point is.

[quote]You’re fighting too much inertia, and it’s inertia made more intransigent by money interests. [/quote]Excellent post, ironlady. I largely agree with you. Hence the need to start somewhere, don’t you think? CNR would save a whole lot of tax payers money over the years, you know. Maybe it will cost more to get things off the ground, but in the long run, the savings will be enormous. I’m thinking once 67% of the population is CNRed, the cost of stray population control drops dramatically compared with the endless and dramatic task of culling strays.

One day(maybe not so far off), the intransigence you talk about will become acquiescence. I would prefer if it was not the old dollars that would make the changes happen, but I’m afraid that you hit the nail on the head; it comes down to money, and there’s never enough money to do things right it seems… But if the right thing turns out to be cheaper(and it is!), then I’m hopeful. :wink:

And let’s not forget that there is a certain appeal to save money while becoming Asia’s pioneer in terms of animal welfare; something Taiwan will be proud of.

All I’m saying is that it will be difficult to make strays a sufficiently “sexy” issue to attract real attention from individual politicos in the government, so as to bring about legislative change. Solving the stray problem would make life better on the island, no matter what means eventually solved it, but they’re driven by the idea of getting re-elected and having power, not necessarily by the idea of improving life for their constituents.

Now, if you had some cute poster-child little girl with her face bitten up by a particularly mean cur, you might get some public outcry, and depending on timing, a limited response from politicians. But I doubt it would be possible to get the mass of voters to vote or contribute based on this sort of issue; it’s just too peripheral to the lives of most people (earn more money, get my kid into a good college…) And votes and contributions talk.

Banning food fights in the Legislative Yuan might reduce the food supply, though. :smiley:

Ironlady cunningly wrote [quote]Now, if you had some cute poster-child little girl with her face bitten up by a particularly mean cur, you might get some public outcry, and depending on timing, a limited response from politicians. But I doubt it would be possible to get the mass of voters to vote or contribute based on this sort of issue; it’s just too peripheral to the lives of most people (earn more money, get my kid into a good college…) And votes and contributions talk. [/quote]

I hear what you are saying: basically, we need to have Jolin ravaged and disfigured by stray dogs. That would set things in motion.

There are other possibilities… say a gorgeous Taiwanese star gets her face eaten off by a pack of strays. Or a kid gets hurt/killed. If people get a shocking story which puts the threat in the front of their minds, change can happen very quickly. Out of curiosity does anyone have any data on how many stray dog attacks are documented on a yearly basis here?

[quote]All I’m saying is that it will be difficult to make strays a sufficiently “sexy” issue to attract real attention from individual politicos in the government, so as to bring about legislative change.[/quote]I’m not willing to say that you are wrong, but since when is doing the right thing the easy route to take? :wink:

[quote]I hear what you are saying: basically, we need to have Jolin ravaged and disfigured by stray dogs. That would set things in motion.[/quote]I’d rather not see that happen for Jolin’s sake, but also because such event would be followed by a wave of animal abuse the like of morons who kill rays because one stingray killed the crocodile hunter.

I’m not even going to bother.

[quote=“Stray Dog”]I’m not even going to bother.[/quote]Smart move. Disfiguring Jolin would only cause more problems for yourself.

Lighten up Pet Crusaders.
My comment was a joke, a searing indictment on Taiwan’s celebrity culture.

[quote=“almas john”]Lighten up Pet Crusaders.
My comment was a joke, a searing indictment on Taiwan’s celebrity culture.[/quote]Lighten up anti-pet crusaders. It was clear all along that your post was a joke.

Kaohsiung’s Number One Pet Crusader wrote: [quote]Lighten up anti-pet crusaders. It was clear all along that your post was a joke.[/quote]

I’ve stripped down to my boxers and loosened my leather corset - is that light enough?

My comment was in response to seeing how some think it would be a great idea to inflate the potential dangers of having stray dogs in order to win support to leave them on the street. :loco:

Um…I thought the ultimate goal is to get the strays OFF the street. Isn’t the eventual theoretical goal of CNR or any other means of dealing with strays the complete elimination of the population?

I’ve stripped down to my boxers and loosened my leather corset - is that light enough?[/quote]It will have to do. Please stop telling me what you are wearing. :pray:

In resonse to Stray Dog above:

[quote=“ironlady”]Um…I thought the ultimate goal is to get the strays OFF the street. Isn’t the eventual theoretical goal of CNR or any other means of dealing with strays the complete elimination of the population?[/quote]This play with words is annoying. After 20 pages you haven’t noticed that there seem to be mainly two options discussed, here; one is culling(killing the dogs ie: taking them off the street as a mean to control the population) and CNR (leaving them on the street as a mean to control the population).

But according to you, if someone gets mauled bad enough, somehow,(not sure how that works…) people may reconsider culling/killing the dogs… :bravo:

What bobepine said. :wink: