Actually I was the one that said that.
Except I never said “culling/killing dogs” would necessarily be the result. Although it probably would be. So the strays had best get together and make sure everyone knows not to stage a mauling.
An interesting but big read on the obstacles to and successes of implementing CNR to control stray populations; I’ve highlighted the areas most pertinent to this discussion, for the benefit of those who prefer to skim:
(ABC stands for ‘animal birth control’, which encompasses CNR)
From ANIMAL PEOPLE, March 2007:
[quote]
Animal Birth Control is fixing the dogs faster than anti-dog attitudes
by Merritt Clifton
AGRA, AHMEDABAD, BANGALORE, CHENNAI, DELHI, THIRUVANATHAPURAM, VISAKHAPATNAM – The Koramangala pound in Bangalore may have been the quietest location in India having anything to with street dogs in the aftermath of a January 5, 2007 fatal pack attack on a nine-year-old girl
named Sridevi. The Coalition for a Dog-Free Bangalore and similar groups nationwide made Sridevi’s
death focal to ongoing efforts to reverse the nine-year-old central government commitment to
sterilize street dogs instead of killing them. (See guest column on page 7.)
In Thiruvananthapuram, Kerala state, also called Trivandrum, a February 10, 2007 confrontation between dogcatchers capturing dogs for extermination and proponents of the local Animal Birth Control program reportedly burst into violence.
At Koramangala, however, built circa 1934 by the British troops, several hundred dogs rested in low-roofed cement kennels with scarcely a bark. Some awaited sterilization surgery in a clinic where dogs were for 65 years electrocuted. Others were under post-operative observation to avoid infection. Soon they would be returned to the neighborhoods where they were collected. The unusual quiet of the Koramangala pound may result mostly from the kennels being arranged in single rows, with each front facing the back of another kennel instead of the front of another kennel and an unfamiliar dog staring back. The dogs are housed in compatible pairs whenever possible.
Other ABC headquarters in Bangalore were as noisy as they were busy. The attractively landscaped Compassion Unlimited Plus Action hospital and shelter on the Hebbal Veterinary College Campus closely resembles the Help In Suffering facilities in Jaipur, whose ABC program was among the first
prominent successes. Both institutions were founded by British expatriate Crystal Rogers (1906-1996). Rogers recruited and trained CUPA core personnel Suparna Ganguly, Shiela Rao, and
Sanober Bharucha.
CUPA also manages the Koramangala ABC program and an outpatient clinic. On February 23, 2007 CUPA hosted World Health Organization chief F.X. Meslin and Animal Welfare Board of India chair R.M. Kharb for the formal debut of new national Rabies Free India campaign, sponsored by the Animal Welfare Board and the federal Ministry of Environment and Forests. Using an oral vaccine developed especially for street dogs, Rabies Free India, “will be launched in Delhi, Chennai and
Bangalore,” Ganguly explained to The Hindu. “The vaccine is ensconced in a food pellet. When the
dog bites the pellet, the vaccine mixes with the dog’s saliva.” After five years of testing, the oral vaccine was recently approved for general use by the Drug Comptroller General of India.
Another Bangalore ABC program operates from the headquarters of Karuna, formerly called the Bangalore SPCA, across a sidestreet from CUPA on the Hebbal campus. Canvassing adjacent neighborhoods for two hours apiece on foot, I found that up to 70% of the adult dogs in the relatively affluent Karuna sector were sterilized, and more than 90% of all dogs in the poorer and more densely populated CUPA sector, which had about half again as many dogs. Two half-grown litters belonging to unsterilized bitches living near encampments of migrant construction workers accounted for most of the unsterilized dogs in the Karuna sector. They appeared to be almost chubby, with little competition for local food waste. There were by contrast only two puppies in the CUPA sector, where only six of the 64 dogs seen lacked an ear notch marking them as sterilized and vaccinated.
A third organization, the Animal Rights Fund, handles the outlying southern parts of Bangalore where Sridevi was killed. While I was not able to canvas the ARF sector on foot, few dogs were visible from bumper-to-bumper car traffic–except around meat shops, as documented by ARF volunteer Poornima Harish (page 7.) Officially, Bangalore still has 56,500 street dogs, 21% fewer than seven years ago, after sterilizing more than 25,000 in recent years and killing nearly 6,000 who were deemed potentially dangerous.
Granted three acres of prime lakefront real estate on the edge of Bangalore in 2003, on which to build a new state-of-the-art ABC hospital and adoption center, ARF fought squatters for nearly three years to clear the land for construction, and is still trying to raise the $20,000 estimated construction cost. The delay, however, may have been indirectly beneficial, in that the ARF design concepts have considerably evolved.
Indian cities lacking effective ABC programs are still killing more than four million dogs per year, chiefly by poisoning, ARF founder Dilip Bafna told ANIMAL PEOPLE. This is more than twice as many dogs as are killed per year by U.S. animal control agencies and humane societies.
Spectacular successes
The Indian cabinet in December 1997 accepted a unanimous Animal Welfare Board recommendation that ABC should fully replace killing dogs for rabies and nuisance control by 2005. The Blue Cross of India had demonstrated the concept in Chennai since 1964. Successful full-scale ABC programs were already underway in Mumbai and Jaipur as well, but with low visibility, and consequently with relatively little controversy. The 2005 goal was missed, largely due to thin resources–but where ABC promoters found the means, the results are dramatic. In Bangalore, Chennai, Delhi, Jaipur, Mumbai, and Visakhapatnam, the ratio of street dogs to humans has dropped from about one dog per 10 people, still seen in areas without ABC, to as few as one dog per 160 people.
Ahmedabad, starting later, is fast catching up, with an ABC program entirely funded by the city government, managed by the Animal Help Foundation. Working from city buses converted into mobile clinics, the 28 Animal Help veterinarians sterilized 45,011 dogs in 2006, about 10,000 more animals than were sterilized by any other organization in the world, and are aiming for 60,000 in 2007.
In Delhi, ANIMAL PEOPLE publisher Kim Bartlett observed, “The dog populations are down
and the dogs you see are in relatively good shape.” Likewise, in Mumbai, “There are many fewer
dogs. I only saw two or three females who seemed to be nursing pups, or had been recently,”
Bartlett said. “There were some young dogs, but I saw no unweaned puppies. Most of the dogs I saw seemed to be intact males,” indicative of a strategy–which ANIMAL PEOPLE has warned Mumbai ABC program planners against–of sterilizing females first, to reduce the dog population fastest. The hazardous aspect of sterilizing females first is that intact male dogs are the most likely to display aggressive behavior, especially when they congregate around the relatively few remaining bitches in heat.
“There is obviously still much sterilization work to be done in Mumbai,” Bartlett concluded, "but the situation would seem to be much improved. Nine years ago, it was not possible to look in any direction without seeing one or more dogs. Now you may go blocks without seeing dogs. When you see them, there are likely to be two or more," probably close to a food source. “There is much less food garbage visible in the streets,” Bartlett noted. “We saw a few areas with garbage dumps and there were always dogs there, but not so many” as before the ABC programs started. Along with sterilizing and vaccinating dogs, the most successful ABC programs emphasize the necessity of removing food waste from the streets, which if not consumed by dogs may encourage population explosions among feral cats, rats, monkeys, and pigs.
While removing garbage seems to have kept monkeys and pigs from replacing dogs in Mumbai,
Bartlett observed that cats appear to be numerous and breeding in the vicinity of a major temple.
“In Agra,” Bartlett reported, “where there is no ABC program, the situation for dogs is as bad or worse than nine years ago.” In inner Chennai, the Blue Cross of India and People for Animals ABC programs have cut dog numbers to barely more than might be seen in any U.S. city, though the U.S. dogs would not be free-roaming.
Far into the rural districts on the fringe of the sprawling Chennai suburbs, two Blue Cross of India satellite facilities appear to be practicing ABC with remarkable success. Dogs still sprawl in the dust beneath peddlers’ carts, but have conspicuous ear notches. In and around Visakhapatnam, the
situation is similar. Seeing a single unsterilized mangy bitch near an outlying temple was cause for a Visakha SPCA volunteer to summon an animal ambulance–while mentioning that the presence of one untreated dog might indicate the presence of others, who possibly followed job seekers in from the countryside. On January 18, 2007, the government of Tamil Nadu recognized the success of ABC by allocating 5.8 million rupees to sterilize more than 275,000 dogs in 50 cities.
Fighting in the streets
But then there was the Thiruvananthapuram incident, reflecting hostility toward dogs persisting among Indians who fear recurrent rabies outbreaks, accept religious dogma that dogs are unclean, or promote other uses of the ABC funding. The official version of whatever happened at Thiruvananthapuram, as reported on February 12, 2007 by an anonymous “special correspondent”
to The Hindu, was that “The City Corporation sought police assistance after foreign nationals allegedly assaulted a municipal health team. One animal handler who was injured in the incident
was hospitalized,” the anonymous correspondent claimed, though later accounts clarified that he
was only treated as an outpatient for a hand injury. “The Kovalam police booked four foreign
nationals,” The Hindu said, “including Avis Lyons of Animal Rights Kerala, on charges of
assault and preventing government officials from discharging their duty.”
The dogcatchers claimed to have been “accosted and manhandled by a gang lying in wait for them,” after they were “lured into a trap.” “I set up Animal Rescue Kerala to implement ABC,” responded Lyons in an e-mail to members of the Asian Animal Protect-ion Network, "and have been sterilizing street dogs for four years. ARK has sterilized all of the dogs in the Kovalam area, and has memorandums of understanding with the panchayats (village councils) of Vizinjam and Venganoor, in effect covering the whole of the area. “In September 2006,” Lyons continued, “the mayor of Trivandrum asked if ARK would teach his staff to do ABC. Twenty Trivandrum staff were at ARK for three days learning how to catch, pre-medicate, and handle stray dogs. They then used this information to kill most of the stray dog population in Trivandrum,” Lyons alleged, “including dogs sterilized by ARK, and also people’s pet dogs. The Trivandrum staff have been caught on camera killing and burying dogs by the roadside,” Lyons charged. “I am pursuing court proceedings to stop the killings.”
On the night of February 10, 2007, Lyons said, “we saw the dogcatchers’ vehicle full of dogs,” outside a hotel in an area covered by one of the ARK memorandums of understanding. “We were told that the hotel had called the dogcatchers,” Lyons continued. "All of the dogs in the area have been sterilized and vaccinated by ARK. There were 11 dogs in the vehicle, two with collars, one a dachshund very sick with distemper. “We tried to stop the vehicle, but the police arrived and told us we had to let it go. They would not talk to my advocate, nor would they let me fetch the memorandum of understanding. I asked the policeman in charge for his name, but he hid his badge and then took it off so that I could not see it. By this time the vehicle with the dogs had been driven off, the dogs going to a certain death.”
Thiruvananthapuram veterinarian L. Ravikumar asserted that Lyons and friends “have raised a challenge to the rule of law.” Commented Blue Cross of India chair Chinny Krishna, “This is most ironic considering that it is the municipality which is not following the rule of law–namely the ABC rules.” Elaborated A.G. Babu of the SPCA Idukki, “Ravikumar said that he would continue catching
and killing stray dogs, and claimed that he would never care for the provisions in the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act 1960 or the ABC rules. He claimed that killing dogs was part of his style of ABC.” Affirmed Roxanne Davur of the Terra Animal Trust in Ooty, “All catchers trained by Animal
Rescue Kerala for the ABC programme are now used to catch and kill dogs, and besides their salary
are paid an extra twenty rupees for any dog killed.”
Thiruvananthapuram health committee chair G.R. Anil reluctantly suspended the dogcatching
program amid the exposure, he told The Hindu–and revealed the reason for it. “Every year, we capture a large number of stray dogs from the wards neighbouring the temple during the run up to the Attukal Pongala festival, which attracts tens of thousands of devotees,” Anil said. “There is a likelihood that the devotees will be exposed to marauding stray dogs.”
But sterilized and vaccinated dogs seldom harm anyone.
–
Merritt Clifton
Editor, ANIMAL PEOPLE
P.O. Box 960
Clinton, WA 98236
Telephone: 360-579-2505
Fax: 360-579-2575
E-mail: anmlpepl@whidbey.com
Web: www.animalpeoplenews.org
[ANIMAL PEOPLE is the leading independent
newspaper providing original investigative
coverage of animal protection worldwide, founded
in 1992. Our readership of 30,000-plus includes
the decision-makers at more than 10,000 animal
protection organizations. We have no alignment
or affiliation with any other entity. $24/year;
for free sample, send address.][/quote]
This is absolute bullshit.
As I have been a major participant in this thread, it pisses me off to no extreme that this is how you (mis)characterize what I’ve been saying. That, or you somehow blanked out what I have been saying for 15 pages and didn’t include my thoughts in your “dueling options.”
When the HELL did I ever say that a cull, and only a cull, was an option worth persuing? :fume:
All along I have written about a Cull/CNR combination; I have wondered about its effectiveness, or perceived effectiveness in the Taipei Cull/garbage removal of the late 90s. I have questioned whether or not a CCNR program would be better suited for Taiwan.
But no, to you, I have been saying “Cull the dogs, every last one of them.” Why do the words “blatant lies” come to mind?
Stray Dog wrote:[quote]
What bobepine said. Wink[/quote]
You have got to be fucking kidding me. 
Good luck to you both in your work. Sincerely. And I hope you continue to make a difference. However, I am so disgusted here that I doubt I will support either of your groups again in any way in the future.
No big loss right?
jdsmith
Interesting how people who dedicate a large part of their lives to actually DOING something about the stray dog situation, have to argue with people who will mostly avoid significant involvement in the problem altogether. At least one vocal opinion hails from outside of Taiwan, so either way the impact to them personally is nil, yet that opinion undermines those who are active in this very issue, right here on this island.
I am genuinely surprised how passionate some people are about this debate, and in particular are in opposition to people who have done significant more research and have the first hand experiences to verify what they read.
I know whose opinion I value more on this.
[quote=“jdsmith”]Stray Dog wrote:[quote]
What bobepine said. Wink[/quote]
You have got to be fucking kidding me.
Good luck to you both in your work. Sincerely. And I hope you continue to make a difference. However, I am so disgusted here that I doubt I will support either of your groups again in any way in the future.
No big loss right?
jdsmith[/quote]
Give me a break, jd. Don’t drag me into yours and bobepine’s tiff. That was not the essence of my comment at all, and certainly not my intention. My comment was directed towards Ironlady.
Come back - the discussion was going somewhere, mainly thanks to your input.
Actually I was the one that said that.
[/quote]
ironlady posted this just before you posted:[quote=“ironlady”]Now, if you had some cute poster-child little girl with her face bitten up by a particularly mean cur, you might get some public outcry[/quote]
Your post was a supporting opinion the way I read it. Actually, your post was a second supporting opinion because almas john posted the same things before you did, too. I knew he was taking the piss, and I thought you were, too. 
Maybe ironlady was also taking the piss, but in context, and given the rest of what she wrote in the same post, I’d venture as far as saying that she’s playing the devil’s advocate at best. I could be wrong-I don’t know for sure what she’s thinking.
WTF is wrong with you JD? Bobepine responds to a post by IRONLADY (check the quote) and you fly off the handle at him accusing him of responding to YOU? You don’t like bobepine. Well duh! We know that already.
[quote=“truant”]in particular are in opposition to people who have done significant more research and have the first hand experiences to verify what they read.
I know whose opinion I value more on this.[/quote]
'Aint THAT the truth.
Its a good thread, though, in that it gives Stray Dog a chance to show how much more convincing his arguments are than those of his detractors. And to show how much more grace he has doing it, too.
Sandman wrote [quote]WTF is wrong with you JD? Bobepine responds to a post by IRONLADY (check the quote) and you fly off the handle at him accusing him of responding to YOU? [/quote]
Nothing wrong with him, and there’s no need to be so nasty to JD. Bobepipe’s response was indeed to Ironlady’s post but he was obviously referring to JD with his oversimplified “two camps” stuff. JD and Ironlady are talking about a combination of culling and CNR but they keep getting smeared as being interested only in KILLING the animals.
[quote=“Truant”]Interesting how people who dedicate a large part of their lives to actually DOING something about the stray dog situation, have to argue with people who will mostly avoid significant involvement in the problem altogether. At least one vocal opinion hails from outside of Taiwan, so either way the impact to them personally is nil, yet that opinion undermines those who are active in this very issue, right here on this island.
I am genuinely surprised how passionate some people are about this debate, and in particular are in opposition to people who have done significant more research and have the first hand experiences to verify what they read.
I know whose opinion I value more on this.[/quote]One of the basic principles of intelligent debate is that arguments should stand on their own merit, not on who makes them.
The research is interesting, though of course it concerns slightly different situations in different places. And I do value people’s first-hand experiences. But as a principle, I try not to reject people’s opinions out of hand based on what they do or where they are.
Out of personal principle and also reasoning I prefer Stray Dog’s take on this issue, in general. But I have three outstanding questions:
Are we certain that the findings from programs in India and elsewhere can be applied here?
There is more evidence about CNR for stray cat populations than for stray dog ones. Is there sufficient evidence for the efficacy of CNR for stray dogs?
Some countries, such as the UK, do not seem to have many stray dogs at all. Why is this? I don’t think there are CNR programs running there.
[quote]JD and Ironlady are talking about a combination of culling and CNR [/quote]So is Stray Dog – check waht he says about aggressive animals that pose a danger. What are we arguing about again?
For what it’s worth, I hadn’t thought about this issue at all before reading this thread, and was only dimly aware of CNR, but I have been pretty well convinced that the approach advocated by Stray Dog is the best way to tackle the problem. I have also learnt that I may have been misguidedly doing more harm than good when, in the past, I was in the habit of carrying food to feed to miserable strays I encountered while out and about.
But I’ll still be interested in hearing what Stray Dog has to say in reply to Joesax’s question about how this problem has been dealt with in the UK and why there are so few strays to be seen there.
Yes, you make a good point. It makes you really wonder who is into this debate for the genuine outcome of it followed by real life action, and who is taken to it like dog to a bone, so to speak, just to have a debate.
[quote=“Omniloquacious”]For what it’s worth, I hadn’t thought about this issue at all before reading this thread, and was only dimly aware of CNR, but I have been pretty well convinced that the approach advocated by Stray Dog is the best way to tackle the problem. I have also learnt that I may have been misguidedly doing more harm than good when, in the past, I was in the habit of carrying food to feed to miserable strays I encountered while out and about.
But I’ll still be interested in hearing what Stray Dog has to say in reply to Joesax’s question about how this problem has been dealt with in the UK and why there are so few strays to be seen there.[/quote]
Nah, we have tons of strays. 100,000 last year alone.
[quote]
Dogs Trust urges owners to take action to reduce stray dog numbers, as survey finds 100,000 dogs stray last year.
Dogs Trust, the UK’s largest dog welfare charity, says dog owners must take more responsibility if the stray dog problem is to be tackled, and dogs are to be saved from unnecessary death.
A report conducted by GfK NOP on behalf of Dogs Trust, released today, shows that 101,586 stray dogs were found in the UK last year, and 7,743 dogs were destroyed for want of a home*. At the current rate of decline, it will take 350 years until the stray dog problem is a thing of the past.
While this represents a small reduction from the previous year, Dogs Trust says dog owners must help tackle the problem by having their dog neutered to stop litters of unwanted puppies.
Dogs Trust Chief Executive, Clarissa Baldwin, says:
“100,000 dogs found stray is a shocking number and should be a wake-up call to dog owners. For a nation of so-called animal lovers, it is unacceptable that we are prepared to treat animals as throwaway commodities, and dog owners must take responsibility for their pets.
At Dogs Trust we are working hard to put an end to all unnecessary destructions, and are working closely with local authorities to achieve this, but unless dog owners think about the commitment needed to look after a dog, dogs will continue to be put to sleep.
The message is clear. Get your dog neutered to prevent unwanted litters. Make sure your dog has a microchip and ID tag to ensure that if he does get lost he can more easily be reunited with you.”
Dogs Trust believes that the most effective and humane way of reducing stray dog numbers in the long-term is best achieved through neutering. The charity also promotes microchipping as a way of reuniting owners with their dogs should they go missing. Last year microchips helped reunite 24% of stray dogs with their owners.
[color=red]The charity has an extensive campaigns programme to promote neutering and microchipping, and in the last year alone, has invested over £3m in neutering and microchipping in the worst affected areas in the UK. Since the scheme began in 1999, 187,500 dogs have been neutered and 206,814 have been microchipped through Dogs Trust, and as a result the numbers of stray dogs and the number of destructions have fallen dramatically.[/color]
Dogs Trust is the UK’s largest dog welfare charity, and cares for over 13,500 dogs every year through a network of 17 Rehoming Centres. Dogs Trust never destroys a healthy dog in its care.
- in some cases a dog may be put to sleep due to injury or ill health.[/quote]
Oh my, so once again evidence to suggest Stray Dog and Bobepine KNOW THEIR STUFF.
Yes, you make a good point. It makes you really wonder who is into this debate for the genuine outcome of it followed by real life action, and who is taken to it like dog to a bone, so to speak, just to have a debate.[/quote]I do wonder about those kinds of things sometimes, though I haven’t done so in this particular debate, in which I feel that everyone’s making an effort to think about the greater good and not just debating for the sake of it. And we’re all allowed to have opinions on these kinds of issues.
But in any case, I don’t feel it does too much good to question people’s motivations. It’s hard enough to communicate on the Internet without second-guessing people. I try to respond to what people actually write and not to what I think their motivation is. I don’t always manage, but I try.
[quote=“sandman”]WTF is wrong with you JD? Bobepine responds to a post by IRONLADY (check the quote) and you fly off the handle at him accusing him of responding to YOU? You don’t like bobepine. Well duh! We know that already.
[quote=“truant”]in particular are in opposition to people who have done significant more research and have the first hand experiences to verify what they read.
I know whose opinion I value more on this.[/quote]
'Aint THAT the truth.
Its a good thread, though, in that it gives Stray Dog a chance to show how much more convincing his arguments are than those of his detractors. And to show how much more grace he has doing it, too.[/quote]
Sandman, give me a large break. If someone were consistantly misrepresenting your posts you would have the same reaction I am having. Or much worse.
“So,” Bobepine says, “After 20 pages there are the people who want to cull the dogs and those who want to CNR them.” This is not an oversimplification. It is a lie.
This has nothing at all to do with my opinion of bobepine. This has to do to with being genuine and honest and openminded about having a discussion. I have read the material. CNR works. Good. But I don’t want a sustained SD population. And neither do most people I have spoken to about this. My POV comes from the civic side, as in what the citizens want. I can appreciate the animals side of the coin, and dealing with them humanely has been a concern of mine too. But the bottom line is: they must go and people must be educated to not allow it to happen again. I do not believe sustaining the SD population and doing CNR is the way to go, as it takes too long. We can theorize that a CNR program will “work” to reduce the SD population over time, but we can’t theorize that culling/CNR will work? Why the hell not? Because it’s mean to the dogs? That’s not good enough for me. And I can take criticism that I’m not compassionate enough to the animals, but I do not like being misrepresented over and again.
[quote]
So is Stray Dog – check waht he says about aggressive animals that pose a danger. What are we arguing about again?[/quote]
We are not arguing about methodology here.
[quote=“TomHill”][quote=“Omniloquacious”]But I’ll still be interested in hearing what Stray Dog has to say in reply to Joesax’s question about how this problem has been dealt with in the UK and why there are so few strays to be seen there.[/quote]Nah, we have tons of strays. 100,000 last year alone.
[quote]
Dogs Trust urges owners to take action to reduce stray dog numbers, as survey finds 100,000 dogs stray last year.
Dogs Trust, the UK’s largest dog welfare charity, says dog owners must take more responsibility if the stray dog problem is to be tackled, and dogs are to be saved from unnecessary death.
A report conducted by GfK NOP on behalf of Dogs Trust, released today, shows that 101,586 stray dogs were found in the UK last year, and 7,743 dogs were destroyed for want of a home*. At the current rate of decline, it will take 350 years until the stray dog problem is a thing of the past.
While this represents a small reduction from the previous year, Dogs Trust says dog owners must help tackle the problem by having their dog neutered to stop litters of unwanted puppies.
Dogs Trust Chief Executive, Clarissa Baldwin, says:
“100,000 dogs found stray is a shocking number and should be a wake-up call to dog owners. For a nation of so-called animal lovers, it is unacceptable that we are prepared to treat animals as throwaway commodities, and dog owners must take responsibility for their pets.
At Dogs Trust we are working hard to put an end to all unnecessary destructions, and are working closely with local authorities to achieve this, but unless dog owners think about the commitment needed to look after a dog, dogs will continue to be put to sleep.
The message is clear. Get your dog neutered to prevent unwanted litters. Make sure your dog has a microchip and ID tag to ensure that if he does get lost he can more easily be reunited with you.”
Dogs Trust believes that the most effective and humane way of reducing stray dog numbers in the long-term is best achieved through neutering. The charity also promotes microchipping as a way of reuniting owners with their dogs should they go missing. Last year microchips helped reunite 24% of stray dogs with their owners.
[color=red]The charity has an extensive campaigns programme to promote neutering and microchipping, and in the last year alone, has invested over £3m in neutering and microchipping in the worst affected areas in the UK. Since the scheme began in 1999, 187,500 dogs have been neutered and 206,814 have been microchipped through Dogs Trust, and as a result the numbers of stray dogs and the number of destructions have fallen dramatically.[/color]
Dogs Trust is the UK’s largest dog welfare charity, and cares for over 13,500 dogs every year through a network of 17 Rehoming Centres. Dogs Trust never destroys a healthy dog in its care.
- in some cases a dog may be put to sleep due to injury or ill health.[/quote]Oh my, so once again evidence to suggest Stray Dog and Bobepine KNOW THEIR STUFF.[/quote]Does the information you quote directly support CNR? It could in fact be seen to support the killing of stray dogs, or at least their removal from public places:
“A report conducted by GfK NOP on behalf of Dogs Trust, released today, [b]shows that 101,586 stray dogs were found in the UK last year, and 7,743 dogs were destroyed for want of a home*.”
The report mentions neutering, but not returning. Are most of the neutered dogs returned to the places where they were found?
Maybe CNR would work better. I’d certainly hope so. It’s extremely sad that so many dogs are killed every year. On the other hand, however, I don’t remember seeing many stray dogs at all in all the various places I lived in the UK so, superficially at least, removing or killing the dogs could be seen to be solving the “problem”.
I really hope that people will find proof that it is better all round not to kill dogs. But to convince the people who need to be convinced, that proof had better be good.
So my three questions to Stray Dog stand.
What is the main method now of dealing with Britain’s SD problem?
So according to the report quoted by Tom, of the approximately 100,000 strays picked up in the UK last year (whichever last year that was), nearly 8,000 were destroyed and about 24,000 were reunited with their owners through their microchips. I wonder what happened to the other 68,000 or so? Could they possibly have all been adopted or kept in dog pounds, or were some of them perhaps neutered and released? I rather doubt that the latter is likely.
[quote=“joesax”][quote=“TomHill”][quote=“Omniloquacious”]But I’ll still be interested in hearing what Stray Dog has to say in reply to Joesax’s question about how this problem has been dealt with in the UK and why there are so few strays to be seen there.[/quote]Nah, we have tons of strays. 100,000 last year alone.
[quote]
Dogs Trust urges owners to take action to reduce stray dog numbers, as survey finds 100,000 dogs stray last year.
Dogs Trust, the UK’s largest dog welfare charity, says dog owners must take more responsibility if the stray dog problem is to be tackled, and dogs are to be saved from unnecessary death.
A report conducted by GfK NOP on behalf of Dogs Trust, released today, shows that 101,586 stray dogs were found in the UK last year, and 7,743 dogs were destroyed for want of a home*. At the current rate of decline, it will take 350 years until the stray dog problem is a thing of the past.
While this represents a small reduction from the previous year, Dogs Trust says dog owners must help tackle the problem by having their dog neutered to stop litters of unwanted puppies.
Dogs Trust Chief Executive, Clarissa Baldwin, says:
“100,000 dogs found stray is a shocking number and should be a wake-up call to dog owners. For a nation of so-called animal lovers, it is unacceptable that we are prepared to treat animals as throwaway commodities, and dog owners must take responsibility for their pets.
At Dogs Trust we are working hard to put an end to all unnecessary destructions, and are working closely with local authorities to achieve this, but unless dog owners think about the commitment needed to look after a dog, dogs will continue to be put to sleep.
The message is clear. Get your dog neutered to prevent unwanted litters. Make sure your dog has a microchip and ID tag to ensure that if he does get lost he can more easily be reunited with you.”
Dogs Trust believes that the most effective and humane way of reducing stray dog numbers in the long-term is best achieved through neutering. The charity also promotes microchipping as a way of reuniting owners with their dogs should they go missing. Last year microchips helped reunite 24% of stray dogs with their owners.
[color=red]The charity has an extensive campaigns programme to promote neutering and microchipping, and in the last year alone, has invested over £3m in neutering and microchipping in the worst affected areas in the UK. Since the scheme began in 1999, 187,500 dogs have been neutered and 206,814 have been microchipped through Dogs Trust, and as a result the numbers of stray dogs and the number of destructions have fallen dramatically.[/color]
Dogs Trust is the UK’s largest dog welfare charity, and cares for over 13,500 dogs every year through a network of 17 Rehoming Centres. Dogs Trust never destroys a healthy dog in its care.
- in some cases a dog may be put to sleep due to injury or ill health.[/quote]Oh my, so once again evidence to suggest Stray Dog and Bobepine KNOW THEIR STUFF.[/quote]Does the information you quote directly support CNR? It could in fact be seen to support the killing of stray dogs, or at least their removal from public places:
“A report conducted by GfK NOP on behalf of Dogs Trust, released today, [b]shows that 101,586 stray dogs were found in the UK last year, and 7,743 dogs were destroyed for want of a home*.”
The report mentions neutering, but not returning. Are most of the neutered dogs returned to the places where they were found?
Maybe CNR would work better. I’d certainly hope so. It’s extremely sad that so many dogs are killed every year. On the other hand, however, I don’t remember seeing many stray dogs at all in all the various places I lived in the UK so, superficially at least, killing or removing the dogs could be seen to be solving the “problem”.
all roundI really hope that people will find proof that it is better not to kill dogs. But to convince the people who need to be convinced, that proof had better be good.
So my three questions to Stray Dog stand.[/quote]
Hello, Did you miss this sentence?
If you read into something what you want to read into it then debate is fruitless.
Nothing wrong with him, and there’s no need to be so nasty to JD. Bobepipe’s response was indeed to Ironlady’s post but he was obviously referring to JD with his oversimplified “two camps” stuff. JD and Ironlady are talking about a combination of culling and CNR but they keep getting smeared as being interested only in KILLING the animals.[/quote]
Well… I’m sorry I omitted to add jd’s suggestion to cull/CNR. 
Notice the two words? Cull, and CNR. In my book, this makes for a discussion that is mainly about culling or CNRing animals. Either we talk about combining the two in a cull/CNR program or not, (either I mention it or not) as suggested by jd, is this discussion not relating mainly to cull and CNR? Either you use one method, the other, or both together, is it not mainly about cull and CNR?
Let’s look at what I wrote again: [quote=“I”]After 20 pages you haven’t noticed that there seem to be mainly two options discussed, here; one is culling(killing the dogs ie: taking them off the street as a mean to control the population) and CNR (leaving them on the street as a mean to control the population).[/quote]
How in hell do you interpret the above as if I’m refering to jd? Unbelievable. Read it again. Better yet, let me write it again for you. This discussion is mainly about two options: CNR, and culling.
Culling is culling! Either you CNR at the same time or not. I’ve also suggested that some of the more agressive dogs would have to be killed. Nevertheless, it is culling. Way to twist things up to get your panties in a bunch! 