Non: No, I’m actually just reflecting general Western culture back at you. I always find it hilarious that a huge amount of what constitutes sexual and dating behaviour is written by women or it’s written by guys writing for a female audience, which is to say, lying. If women really think that most guys are going to be honest with them about their true feelings, or that they’re going to write a no-holds-barred explanation for a female magazine or website, they are really fooling themselves.
Women often say one thing, yet a great many of them do a completely different thing, yet when guys call them on that, they’re told they can’t understand because they’re not women or the women offer handfuls of examples of when the nice guy in school did get the girl. This is because women, from their perspective, don’t stop to consider that for every nice, nerdy guy they have fucked, they’ve strung along about fifty other such guys in complete blissful ignorance. Guys know this because for many guys (or their close friends or other men around them), they have been on the other end of that 50:1 ratio in anything but blissful ignorance. Some of you know that you’re doing it, though a great many more of you don’t, but you’ve all led on dozens of nerds. In fact, you’ve probably got two or three you’re doing it to right now that you don’t even know about.
[quote=“jimipresley”][quote=“steelersman”]So where does that put the Filipino girl who likes to hangout with me but knows that I have a girlfriend?
What does she want?[/quote]
She likes the way you dance. She gets reflected glory from your awesomeness.[/quote]
or you’re like her gay friends. you can hang out because you’re “safe” and won’t try to bang her. or because you have a gf, your price just went up. and the hotter your gf (or rather the differential between your innate score and her innate score), the higher the price you go up. lol and don’t ask me for definitions and nitpickery, this is just a general statement.
[quote=“GuyInTaiwan”]
Women often say one thing, yet a great many of them do a completely different thing, yet when guys call them on that, they’re told they can’t understand because they’re not women or the women offer handfuls of examples of when the nice guy in school did get the girl. This is because women, from their perspective, don’t stop to consider that for every nice, nerdy guy they have fucked, they’ve strung along about fifty other such guys in complete blissful ignorance. Guys know this because for many guys (or their close friends or other men around them), they have been on the other end of that 50:1 ratio in anything but blissful ignorance. Some of you know that you’re doing it, though a great many more of you don’t, but you’ve all led on dozens of nerds. In fact, you’ve probably got two or three you’re doing it to right now that you don’t even know about.[/quote]
[quote]
Women often say one thing, yet a great many of them do a completely different thing, yet when guys call them on that, they’re told they can’t understand because they’re not women or the women offer handfuls of examples of when the nice guy in school did get the girl. This is because women, from their perspective, don’t stop to consider that for every nice, nerdy guy they have fucked, they’ve strung along about fifty other such guys in complete blissful ignorance. Guys know this because for many guys (or their close friends or other men around them), they have been on the other end of that 50:1 ratio in anything but blissful ignorance. Some of you know that you’re doing it, though a great many more of you don’t, but you’ve all led on dozens of nerds. In fact, you’ve probably got two or three you’re doing it to right now that you don’t even know about.[/quote]
A woman meets a guy. For whatever reason, she doesn’t want to sleep with him (her prerogative anyways) but wants to be his friend. Maybe she likes talking to him. Maybe they share an interest (or as you seem percieve it, she thinks she shares an interest, because men and women can’t really do that since they are never interested in the same things ). Whatever the reason, she is offering her friendship- clear, simple, no-strings attached. Sure, she might ask him to lift heavy things or help her change her oil- friends ask friends for favors, especially when one friend has a skill the other lacks- but he can always say no, just like friends sometimes do.
Now, let’s explore your use of the phrase “string along”. If a woman offers friendship to a guy, is she really stringing him along? Is she using him? It’s not as if the first day they met she said “hey if you pretend to be my friend maybe I’ll sleep with you someday”. No. Sex was not implied. Is she really stringing him along? In my opinion, no, she is not. She’s just offering friendship- now what the fuck is wrong with that?
Now, what about this dude? Based on what you’ve said you seem to think men and women can’t really just be friends. So obviously he’s only her friend because he thinks maybe someday they’ll bump uglies. He laughs at her jokes, pretends to be interested in her mindless drivel, lifts heavy things, whatever, hoping to one day get into her panties.
Who’s in the wrong here? You sound pretty bitter about the whole situation, but I think it’s the guy who’s being duplicitous and manipulative.
I’m glad I have male friends. They enrich my life. I’m sorry you don’t feel the same way about female friends. I think you’re missing out, hon.
I think you and Guy are both correct, depending on the case.
Of course men and women can be friends,and leave it at that, for many different reasons.
However, can you tell when a guy thinks you’re hot and charming? Many women can, and enjoy the feeling. I certainly love being with someone who thinks I am handsome, or cute, intelligent, funny whatever…right? It’s an ego boost. So I think what Guy is saying is that many women enjoy that feeling from male friends without being aware enough of how her appeal might affect him, lead him on etc.
Hm… why does that sounds familiar, somehow…?
Reminds me of certain Christians i knew and their talk about women being manipulators and seducers (= inherently morally inferior than men).
And i also find it curious that (a few? some? almost all?) men define friendship as something that can’t coexist with another relationship.
In any case, i’ll put my vote in with those whose experience is otherwise.
<---------- wonders why he doesnt have any female “friends” . OH maybe because he jumps them at the first opportunity (like real soon) so theres no “friends” bullshit
I don’t know if you guys mean me, but I have lots of female friends. Women are great!
I am talking about women that string guys on, not all women everywhere. I know numerous cases of that happening, but it doesn’t mean that this is female SOP.
And Yuli, saying that “something sounds familiar somehow” and then equating that with some Christians saying that women are manipulators is pretty low level reasoning.
Do you have something similar to a real point, especially one based on what I actually said? Just curious.
Big John, I get what you mean about the person who has the most power bearing the most responsibility- I kind of agree with that. It’s annoying as a woman though to feel like you can’t be friends with someone cause you get the inkling that they may like you =( Especially when they’re pulling out all the stops to hang out with you. I have solved this problem in the past by being entirely up front with the guy and saying “hey I don’t see us going beyond friends” but sometimes they still insist they want to be friends. At that point, I figure I did the best I could and just enjoy the friendship, and yes, the attention. What else can you do?
There is no friendship. The desperate guy is doing whatever he can to remain in close proximity to your ass. What else can you do? Get a boyfriend and see him disappear in a flash.
Hm… why does that sounds familiar, somehow…?
Reminds me of certain Christians i knew and their talk about women being manipulators and seducers (= inherently morally inferior than men).
And i also find it curious that (a few? some? almost all?) men define friendship as something that can’t coexist with another relationship.
In any case, I’ll put my vote in with those whose experience is otherwise. [/quote]
Oh,I get it! You and tommy525 are nerds, and you’re trying to get laid! Good luck, nerds! Ha ha! Ha ha ha!
I’ve heard this argument too often that women string men on and therefore are to blame for men’s unhappiness, and that women are manipulators and use men for their own purposes.
Your comment just reminded me of that (otherwise my comment was not directed at you in particular - there have been several people in this thread who have made comments that seem to go in the same direction). I just don’t buy it. In other words, if a man wants sex he doesn’t have to hang around a particular woman and pretend to be friends with her. The idea that sex is a scarce commodity and that women have control over it and thus power over men comes in a straight line from a religion that seems to be mostly about controlling people. In those years that i lived in countries where Chrisitanity is widely established i was able to learn quite a bit about that religion, and to me it looks like something created and maintained by men with big hangups. Call it low reasoning if you want, it’s nothing more than a different cultural perspective. shrug
Anyway, people are different, and if some think it is meaningful to date someone they can’t talk with, that’s their choice - others prefer to make friends with people (which involves talking and establishing a relationship of respect and consideration, etc.) and then finding partners for sex among those friends.
(I think NonTLT and Indiana said it better than i could: viewtopic.php?t=99147&start=19 [edited to account for the thread split])
To expand on your point of this rather absurd argument that women are manipulators etc etc, I’ve heard it far too many times than I would like to have. And it always seems in this argument that women manipulating men but I think when it comes down to it, it really depends on the person, both men and women both can be horrible manipulators and twist other women/men for their own purposes. It really just depends on how crummy the person is…
But as far as the issue that the thread is originally about, I personally couldn’t date someone I couldn’t communicate with, I put too much importance on talking/laughing/joking/communicating/etc and I don’t know how you would get that without actually being able to talk to your SO. I guess I could understand how some people could do it, but I just couldn’t be with someone under those circumstances, much less get married to them.
Non: I’ve already stated that if guys are friends with women then it means those guys either find them unattractive, have a better offer or know the woman is off limits.
I’ve also stated that men who hang off women they’re obviously (to an outsider, I guess) not going to get to bang are lying to themselves even more than they’re lying to the woman. I’ve also stated that some women are blissfully unaware that they are leading men along. That’s the whole point of it being blissful ignorance. They’re not aware that they’re giving off certain signals, but they are.
As antarcticbeech stated, get a boyfriend and watch these guys disappear, which leads back to my original point.
The flip-side of this situation is like when, back in the day, I knew a Taiwanese woman and I told her that I didn’t want her to be my girlfriend, but I would fuck her. I explicitly stated that if she came to my apartment, that meant she was coming for sex, otherwise she wasn’t allowed to come to my apartment. However, even if I fucked her, she wasn’t going to be my girlfriend. Yet she still went psycho xiaojie on me about the whole thing. Silly bitch. Yet when a guy does that (is completely upfront about what he does or doesn’t want), people think that’s really mean and the girl has been really hard done by. Or maybe it’s not even as obvious as that. Maybe the guy in everything he does is subtly signalling/steering the date towards fucking a chick and makes no mention of a relationship (or even subtly hints that he doesn’t want a relationship). Then he fucks her and forgets her and she goes psycho xiaojie on him and everyone thinks he’s a womaniser. Maybe he thought that at no point did he give her any indication that he wanted to be the girl’s friend, boyfriend or any other such thing. That’s not how the girl saw it though and she believes she was led on.
yuli: I would say religion in Western societies is equally as fucked up for men as women when it comes to sexuality. Christianity has major issues with sexuality in general. Stemming from a lot of that, a man certainly can’t just go up to a woman and tell her he wants sex, so there’s this little dance that they have instead. It’s this whole (at least) slightly negative approach to the body compared to the mind where knowing someone for their body is regarded as something worse, if not downright dirty, but knowing someone for their mind is something special, beautiful, etc.
). Whatever the reason, she is offering her friendship- clear, simple, no-strings attached. Sure, she might ask him to lift heavy things or help her change her oil- friends ask friends for favors, especially when one friend has a skill the other lacks- but he can always say no, just like friends sometimes do.
Get a boyfriend and see him disappear in a flash.