Someone asked me about finding out what it would be like to attend university in the UK. I haven’t got the slightest idea, so I was hoping that the Brits here, could offer me a good idea. The person is American and concerned that should he go, that his degree wouldn’t be recognized in the US.
He is reseaching the following universities:
University of Westminister
University College of London
City of London(I think)
He’s also confused about understanding the tariff- I assume it’s a grade for schools.
None of those unis are that great. They are recognized but not fantastic. Universties are ranked in the UK, but most importatnly ranked by subject as well. For example the UEA is great for sciences but not well recognized for business etc. All are different for the different subjects. I guess from the choice of universites your friend is researching that he is going for a business degree.
UK is expensive. However UK degrees were very respected in the US (not sure about the last five years). They are recognized in the USA, yes in fact there is a special sytem that converts your UK grade into a US grade. I suggest your friend does a one year masters degree in the UK, but if it is a three year undergraduate degree then I suggest he/she does it elsewhere to save money. Yes British degrees are good (dropped a bit recently though exception Cambridge/Oxford etc) but maybe in value for money terms he should go elsewhere like the United States.
JMHO
He’s talking about going for journalism. He’s very interested in the University of Westminster. That seems to be his first choice. What do you mean by value for money terms? The education isn’t worth the amount one would pay because they’re international?
London is stupidly expensive. There are perfectly good universities in cheaper parts of the country. I never went to any though. You could rent a house up north for the price of a shoebox in London.
Last year when I was researching where to do my masters, the tuition for international students in the UK for most unis was around 8,500 pounds for a one-year programme. With the current exchange rate, that comes to about US $16,500. The cost of living is significantly higher in the UK than in most places in the US, but you have the added advantage of the degree programmes being shorter (3 years for a Bachelors, usually 1 year for a Masters). I also personally enjoyed the lifestyle in the north of England where I lived for some time…it’s much more laid back than in the US in my opinion, and the culture and history is awesome to experience.
I eventually opted for Australia. The duration of the degree programmes are similar to the UK and the cost of living where I am is around what I am used to in the US (i.e. significantly less than in the UK, even in the north). Plus the weather rocks, as do the people and the beaches.
I never looked into how my Australian degree would be taken by employers in the US, though, because I have no intention of ever repatriating there. But I imagine that one of the top ten unis in Australia would be looked upon in a positive light.
He’s talking about going for journalism. He’s very interested in the University of Westminster. That seems to be his first choice. What do you mean by value for money terms? The education isn’t worth the amount one would pay because they’re international?
(just checking that understood that correctly) [/quote]
Westminster would be good for journalism i suspect. Good place to be located as well (in terms of where it is happening). Depends if she can afford it as it could be miserable there if you didn’t have A LOT OF MONEY.
“Value for money”, I mean that what you get with the amount of money you spend at a London uni maybe she could get from somewhere else for far less money. For example you would be better off doing a degree in a far less expensive area and spending less money and investing that same money into others areas of your education. Like the other poster said Australia is always a good choice. However for journalism studying in Westmister would be hard to beat i suspect. After all it is where a lot of the world’s politics still happen.
So to sum up: if money is not an issue then I think your friend will enjoy themselves and learn a lot.
It’s possible that he should look at doing an English degree as an Undergraduate and then doing an MA in Journalism. Leaves him/her more wriggle room, if they change their mind. If this is the route they choose they should look at a number of factors.
Campus or noncampus university? I went to a campus uni and loved it- other people might prefer the anonyminity of a city.
The rating of the Uni in the choosen course. (the government does quality assesment and grades a department out of a maximum of five points).The Guardian and the Times have tables on subjects
Be aware that a while back the Higher education system in the Uk was changed. It used to have Polytechnics and Universities. Then the Poly’s were given the option to be Unis. The difference between them originally was that the poly’s were more vocational. When the change over happened they were referred to as New Unis. As polytecnics some of them were ran excellent (and preferred to the uni’s by employers in certain fields) courses. For some places the focus changed and the new Uni became less vocational, some new unis did well out of it, others not so well. Your friend needs to make sure that he does his research well. I’m not sure how things panned out (having been out of the UK for a while) I imagine the playing feild has levelled itself out a lot, but in general if the Uni is worth going to - it will have a solid reputation in the subject. (independant of the prospectus of course!).
If pursuing a career in Journalism then your friend will want to check out the Student Unions’ publication. They will probably want to get involved with this as it provides invaluble work experience. What opportunites are there to get involved? Can they see archives online? Does the style/format seem rigid or fluid? How does it sit with them? Does it look any good? How many people work on it? Does it look like your friend will be able to learn from the people running it? Do they have their own space? What kind of software do they seem to be using?
He/she should also check out the way that the course is administered and graded. Is it exam heavy/coursework heavy, lecture based/ heavily tutorial? Which way does the person work best?
Cost is a crucial factor. Most students in the UK work part, if not nearly full time, to get themselves through uni. London is an horrendous place to be with limited funds. Living up North/outside London is certainly cheaper. However London is alot of fun. And there are nightbuses to get you home after a night out.
Your friend should be aware that a sizeable amount of first year students in the Uk are (a)living away from home for the first time.(b) like to get drunk. The best way to deal with this generally is to go and get drunk with them. If you’re not into drinking then some careful thought should be given to living arrangements. Most uni’s have Halls of Residence (dorms). Some are self catering, some catered. In my limited experience I recall that the self-catering halls might attract people who can look after themselves a bit, and therefore may be a little quieter/mature students. Halls are fun and a wicked way to meet a wide range of people (especially if you’re not at a campus uni I imagine) but then again if you’re going to be constantly upset by people being noisy, then it may not be the choice for you. Or the uni should be able to recommend which is quieter in general. Personally I wouldn’t recommend anyone ‘lives out’ in their first year- being stuck in a shared house with people you have nothing in common with/don’t like is far worse than merely being stuck on the same coridoor as them.
He’s talking about going for journalism. He’s very interested in the University of Westminster.[/quote]
FYI I graduated from the School of Modern Languages of that august institution, way back when it was called the Polytechnic of Central London. It is indeed well known for its School of Media,
Arts and Design, with such specialities as Photographic Science (e.g. forensic photography etc.), Photographic Arts etc. The School of Media, Arts and Design is almost next door to the headquarters of the BBC and Independent Television News (ITN)*. As you might expect, the student publications department is very active. The weekly student union magazine is called The Smoke (meaning London, as “the Big Apple” means New York). I was an occasional contributor to its forerunner, McGarel.
Thanks Kitkat and Juba. All your information is very helpful. :bravo: My friend will keep looking at the thread for any updates. Money is a concern, but he’s very driven, so I’m certain that he’ll find a way to do it.
Again thank a lot of all of your input and information.
Personally I think the UK needs to sort out its crime problems before I would ever go back there and live. You’ve met me Nama I am a big guy managed to get mugged 3 times in a week at one point. You can’t leave your doors unlocked or your car on the street. The whole country is probably akin to NY in the 1990’s.
Having said that the University system is excellent and we are famous for training our students to think for themselves.
Much cheaper options would include universities in France, China, India etc. Most employers outside of the UK have no idea about rankings and only care whether you have a degree or not. Personally I think even that is bunk.
I have a degree from an old Polytechnic and amusingly have the original certificate issued in the year that they converted to a Uni which says University of Greenwich and a later copy from when I misplaced it that says Thames Polytechnic. Anyway it has never hurt my career having a shitty degree from a crappy institution, if your friend is driven it will not matter ultimately where they attend college.
[quote=“Edgar Allen”]Personally I think the UK needs to sort out its crime problems before I would ever go back there and live. You’ve met me Nama I am a big guy managed to get mugged 3 times in a week at one point. You can’t leave your doors unlocked or your car on the street. The whole country is probably akin to NY in the 1990’s.
Having said that the University system is excellent and we are famous for training our students to think for themselves.
Much cheaper options would include universities in France, China, India etc. Most employers outside of the UK have no idea about rankings and only care whether you have a degree or not. Personally I think even that is bunk.
I have a degree from an old Polytechnic and amusingly have the original certificate issued in the year that they converted to a Uni which says University of Greenwich and a later copy from when I misplaced it that says Thames Polytechnic. Anyway it has never hurt my career having a shitty degree from a crappy institution, if your friend is driven it will not matter ultimately where they attend college.[/quote]
Thanks Allen As for crime, I don’t think he’s too worried. You should see some of the stuff I’ve seen since coming back to the States. There was a time and point where even if you were a drug user, heavy, you tended to stay out of the public eye. Now, I’ve been riding the train with heroin users who are open about being high. People harass me everyday for a cigarette :fume: (I won’t get started on that) and drinking at 10 am on the bus.
As for studying other countries, I think my friend is concerned about being able to work in the States and rightly so. I’m back and they want to check everything in your background and have references for everything. So, 3 years overseas to them is worthless because they can’t check by phone.
The whole country? With respect, EA, this is just not true. I’ve spent fourteen of my twenty-seven years in the UK and never once been mugged, robbed, attacked or abused in any way. Never had a car stolen or a house broken in to. The only incident I can think of in all that time is having my bicycle nicked when I was at university. Of course I wasn’t in London - that’s why I think in many places in the country it’s possible to be blissfully unaware of crime. New York in the 90s? No way - for a start gun crime, while on the rise, is still miniscule compared to the US.
Of course there are problems - town centres when the pubs are closing can be unpleasant places, and I’m sorry to hear about you getting mugged (Llary has said the much same thing to me about Liverpool). But unless things have changed drastically in the last couple of years, it’s not anything like as bad as you make out over the whole country. Poor areas in big cities, yes, and this is why I would avoid London (as on a student’s money you’ll have to live in the crappy parts of town). Although having said that, my sister (southern, white, middle-class) lived in one of the scummiest parts of Liverpool for four years and never had a whisper of trouble, despite all the talk of crack and asbos.
There are small cities or large towns in England with good universities which are safe, attractive places to live, and a lot cheaper than London. Exeter, York, Oxford and Bath are cities which fit that bill (ok, well perhaps they’re not a lot cheaper than London, but still…) and that’s just speaking from personal experience - I’m sure there are many more.
Something far more off-putting about the UK for me is the cost of living, which is getting to be outrageous. So many people are having to borrow just to maintain a very modest way of life.
I disagree. I think the American university system is far superior, especially for business-related degrees. Many international students spend shitloads of money to attend MBA programs in the UK each year. Many are sorely disappointed when they graduate and realize they will only be paid a fraction of what a USA MBA graduate is paid. American universities have more generous scholarships, have larger endowments, have a wider array of courses to choose from, have better internship possibilities, and have much more money for research. Furthermore, alumni relations offices in the US are more helpful in finding jobs for graduates. Harvard, for example, publishes a book of graduate profiles and sells it to top-tier companies. In the UK, there is still this wide gap between admin and students and the class system still exists (most of my Brit classmates went to Eton and Harrow). Once students pay tuition, admin at many UK unis don’t seem to care about the students. Even the degrees in the UK (at most universities) look very cheap (fonts etc.) compared to American degrees.
Of course, for social sciences and the humanities, some UK universites are top notch (Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, SOAS etc). However, a majority of UK universities are VERY mediocre indeed.
If Namahottie’s friend is looking for a degree to get ahead in the real world, she should stay in the US. If she is looking for a basketweaving degree, the one-year master courses in the UK would probably be attractive to her.
I think the British system is again inferior to the American system. So many Brits love to stereotype Americans as unintelligent, uninformed, and arrogant. Yet, even the smallest community college in the Midwest usually has a large number of courses on British and European history for example. I have always been suprised at the small number of American courses available in a number of European institutions, even at the elite institutions. For example, the institution I attended (supposedly the best school for international relations in the world) only had one American course at the graduate school level. So many Europeans (especially the elite) love to comment on all things Americana, but I don’t think they really understand Americans, and the weak educational system in the UK is partly to blame for this.
The whole country? With respect, EA, this is just not true. I’ve spent fourteen of my twenty-seven years in the UK and never once been mugged, robbed, attacked or abused in any way. Never had a car stolen or a house broken in to. The only incident I can think of in all that time is having my bicycle nicked when I was at university. Of course I wasn’t in London - that’s why I think in many places in the country it’s possible to be blissfully unaware of crime. New York in the 90s? No way - for a start gun crime, while on the rise, is still miniscule compared to the US.
Of course there are problems - town centres when the pubs are closing can be unpleasant places, and I’m sorry to hear about you getting mugged (Llary has said the much same thing to me about Liverpool). But unless things have changed drastically in the last couple of years, it’s not anything like as bad as you make out over the whole country. Poor areas in big cities, yes, and this is why I would avoid London (as on a student’s money you’ll have to live in the crappy parts of town). Although having said that, my sister (southern, white, middle-class) lived in one of the scummiest parts of Liverpool for four years and never had a whisper of trouble, despite all the talk of crack and asbos.
There are small cities or large towns in England with good universities which are safe, attractive places to live, and a lot cheaper than London. Exeter, York, Oxford and Bath are cities which fit that bill (ok, well perhaps they’re not a lot cheaper than London, but still…) and that’s just speaking from personal experience - I’m sure there are many more.
Something far more off-putting about the UK for me is the cost of living, which is getting to be outrageous. So many people are having to borrow just to maintain a very modest way of life.[/quote]Taffy, I take your point that there are reasonably safe places to be in the UK, but there are also a great many not-so-safe places, and not just in poor areas of big cities. Exeter, York, Oxford, and Bath are alright, yes. Lots of other places aren’t so good. If people are sensible they can minimise the risks of mugging, though burglary is harder to avoid. But crime is something you’re always aware of.
And quite a few people have mentioned to me that London is actually a relatively safe place to live.
I’ve tried for a couple of minutes to understand this sentence.
Your opinion, especially about how so many Brits love to stereotype Americans as you say. You’re bang out of order on this.
[quote]but I don’t think they really understand Americans, and the weak educational system in the UK is partly to blame for this.
[/quote]
Do you have anything to support the fact that you think the UK educational system is weak? Do you have anything to support that British people as a whole don’t really understand Americans?
Or is this just your misguided opinion?
From the US Department of Education or whatever it is called:
…in sum, by measures of university completion conventionally used within the US higher education community, about 66-67 per cent of US university students appear to complete their degree, a level that is measurably lower than the UK 's rate of 82 per cent. Differences in the rates of completion among university students in the US and UK appear to be real, substantial, and persistent.
One key difference between UK and US systems is that in the USA, no matter if one is enrolled in a state school or a private liberal arts college, it is expected that students will study academic subjects outside their intended field of study. Hence on American campuses you will see scenarios where Art students may be taking courses in nuclear physics.
In the UK, specialization is more widely expected. Students commencing their undergraduate training are only expected to study within their chosen area of study. (This happens to less of a degree in Scottish universities, where students are encouraged to explore topics beyond their major, although in reality students rarely venture beyond their chosen faculty).
[i]These structural differences influence changes within the deliverance of classes. Due to obligation of students to study outside their fields of study the US prescribes a broader, but less in depth of an enquiry of study. Whereas, breadth is shunned in favor of more narrowly focused, but deeper lines of study within British establishments. Each system has its strengths and weaknesses. Critics of British education would point towards the enforced learning of unnecessary information, whereas defenders of the British universities may counter by accusations of dumbing down in college classes. My personal perception, based from studying in two small universities/colleges in the UK and the US, that aside from a divergence between curriculum’s, there is a marked difference of ethos between UK and USA higher education institutions.
On American campuses, work is constantly requested from students on a daily basis. In contrast the British university calendar invites extra-intensive work in patches, separated by periods of lulls, thus creating large tracts of downtime between assignments. It this downtime that characterises the British university lifestyle where social life is the veritable engine of UK university life, pushing academia into the passenger seat but in the meantime allowing students to use their own initiative, motivation and time management in order to complete work and assignemnets. In contrast academia takes the fore in America colleges, largely due to structured system in American colleges brought by an emphasis upon teaching. Work is definitely more intensive in American colleges, which is to be expected given that American students pay significantly more than their British counterparts.
Nothing in my post was intended to develop any kind of competition between US and UK educational systems. I think you will find that I was generally down on the UK as a whole. I do believe we have a good education system on the whole and of course it is free for those of us lucky enough to have a British passport, whilst the US system is inordinately expensive.
Maybe one of the reasons why there are less bursaries ad other awards available in the UK is that they are simply not needed?
Anyway if we are going to get into a debate about which system is better then you lot should bloody well learn to spell simple sords like COLOUR!
[quote=“namahottie”]
I’m back and they want to check everything in your background and have references for everything. So, 3 years overseas to them is worthless because they can’t check by phone.
[/quote]
Oooo…that hurts!
Your friend might think about Arizona State University in Tempe, Az. Very highly rated Journo school, great weather and pricing is good. Undergrad there, then MA in Britain or perhaps even Chicago…NW?
Someone even pmed me and asked if the ‘friend’ was me. nope it aint. I did once apply and was accepted in to University of Westminster. But that was over 2 years ago, and it seems like my information to offer my friend was no enough. No problem with that, figured I would tap into the brains of forumosa.
now the thread is now a piss fight of if the Brits take a piss on Americans. Could that be deemed off topic?
As for crime, I don’t think he’s too worried. You should see some of the stuff I’ve seen since coming back to the States. There was a time and point where even if you were a drug user, heavy, you tended to stay out of the public eye. Now, I’ve been riding the train with heroin users who are open about being high. People harass me everyday for a cigarette :fume: (I won’t get started on that) and drinking at 10 am on the bus.
I think the British system is again inferior to the American system. So many Brits love to stereotype Americans as unintelligent, uninformed, and arrogant. Yet, even the smallest community college in the Midwest usually has a large number of courses on British and European history for example. I have always been suprised at the small number of American courses available in a number of European institutions, even at the elite institutions. For example, the institution I attended (supposedly the best school for international relations in the world) only had one American course at the graduate school level. So many Europeans (especially the elite) love to comment on all things Americana, but I don’t think they really understand Americans, and the weak educational system in the UK is partly to blame for this.
