chinese isn’t that hard? sure, thats why its classified in the hardest languages category. i think Taiwanese pride themselves on being helpful to foreigners so its not really a stretch that they could provide more english. and i don’t think that is going to stop foreigners from fitting in.
The ‘Chinese isn’t that hard’ statement got me too. Plenty of research points out to it taking 5X the amount of time to learn than typical european languages (at least for European speakers). It’s not like other languages where you can kind of muddle through learning the script as you go or that you can guess from some similarities to your native language. You really have to sit down and dedicate a very large amount of time to learning the script. Learning Chinese to a competent level (reading, writing, speaking) is a major challenge for locals never mind foreigners!
And writing it… I spent over two years at it and still can barely hand-write a sentence. Can get by with writing on a computer that’s about it. It’s basically about massive memorisation and as adults , one your brain probably isn’t as good as it was in that department, two who has so much time to dedicate to such a task, three it can be boring as hell unless you have an interest in it.
I lived here 5 years before going to school to learn the characters because it just wasn’t happening by osmosis. Prior to that yes I could read some common words in a menu or directions but that was about it. 
The lack of English menus is a big problem for visitors, I’ve often walked into a restaurant and wondered why they haven’t bothered to put some English words on the menu or even the window to tell people what they are selling. They aren’t hole in the wall places either and often sell Western food!
[quote=“Milkybar_Kid”]
Am I the only one here who thinks that this is all a bit misguided? Surely as foreign residents here it is our responsbility to adapt and fit in to the place we have chosen to call home? I know that this has been debated on here before, but why should the Taiwanese feel that they have to ‘internationalise’ to meet the needs of a relativley small group of people who have chosen to live and work in their country. If anything, the reposibility is on us to learn Chinese so that Taiwan becomes an easier place for us to live and work in. The same principle is true anywhere in the world: whether you’re a Pole living in London, a Mexican living in San Diego or a Bangladeshi living in one of the northern Indian states.
Chinese really isn’t that hard. Any foreign resident who has been here for any length of time and complains about being unable to read 三民路 on a bus timetable or 雞肉飯 on a menu needs no special effort being made on their behalf as they certainly haven’t bothered to put in any effort themselves.
Having said that, some of the points raised here are still relevant, albeit for other reasons: more English on bus timetables would benefit short-term foreign tourists, increased promotion of Chinese classes for foreign spouses would help these new residents to fit in better, and banning the burning of Ghost Money would reduce air pollution for everyone who lives on this island – local and foreign residents alike.[/quote]
You’re not the only one who thinks this. I feel many foreigners want Taiwan to be too much like “home” and have everything handed to them on a silver platter. If something doesn’t go there way, blame the system. In the few years I’ve been living here, there’s been huge upgrades to English, I think the most noticeable are the bus stop marquees on the bus and at the bus stops. I’m sure there are some establishments that can use an upgrade, but a major overhaul is just too much and unnecessary.
As for my own Christmas list…
There has to be an easier way for foreigner children of local parents to claim citizenship. That 180 day, 270 day or 365 day rule and mandatory military service is ridiculous. As far as I can tell, Taiwanese companies and schools could use a little international spice in them.
I agree there are some very very valid points in terms of spouses and
I’ve been here twenty years, perhaps more, I can’t remember. You stated that this thread is a little missguided. You may be…
First, there are Chinese classes for foreign spouses. I live so far out in hicksville that I can’t possible get to the city for classes. I take them in the evening at the local elementary school. My classmates are foreigner brides and grandmothers who have not had the time to go to school. The only drawback is that the language of instruction is Taiwanese. Only a few teachers understand English so I’m left with my Pleco Dictionary. I actually use the same books as my kids now.
Burning of ghost money. Yes, I agree it is bad for the environment. But i live what would be hillbilly country. They the local residents resent people trapsing in and stopping their local practice. You are going to have to convince them with understanding and gentle persuasion. McDonalds, 7-11 the National Banks (no international banks here) do it. They really believe it is necessary.
That said, all the requests I see on this thread are just requests for fairness. Pensions, the right of citizenship for us transplants are all valid. We fought to get major changes in the name of fairness, but I don’t want to change key aspects of the culture.
Just a few years ago, I was a wage slave with no rights and my child would have never been a Taiwanese citizen.
Yes, I’m fed up with the hypocrisy of this country saying it be an international English friendly country. They don’t! Just dial 3 for English and you will never get an English speaker. Never. Call any other customer service line in Asia and ask them if they speak English you will get an answer with a twinge of a person being insulted and they will say “Of course, this is Singapore…” Here they are proud of not speaking English… OK rant over.
We need a new Hartzel…
The thing is that these classes are not readily available for the immigrants. If they have teh desire to enrolll, how do they know wher eto go and how to enroll if the information is not available in any lamguage they can understand? It si wonderful to have those classes in local elementary schools, but how does a foreigner spouse that does not speak Chinese get around to find out which schools offer those in the area where they live? Without the family’s assistance, tehy can’t. And sometimes the family thinks it is too mafan, or they also do not know where to ask. Or pretend not to know, or really do not care/do not want the foreign spouse to be able to be more independent. This is a big problem.
Yes, we can try to fit and not to rock the boat. But acting like blind children does not get us any brownie points nor help the local community in any way. If they want disposable wombs, legalize surrogacy, put a price on motherhood, pay the fair price and stop cheating by renewing/renaming sexual slavery.
If we pay laobao, why are we not included in the pension plan? Where does the money go then? This is a question of law, transparency and fairness.
Plenty of good input here. Keep it coming.
I have suggested that a permanent online portal be provided for foreigners to present views on where Taiwan falls short (or excels) in providing a foreigner-friendly environment and foreigner-friendly living conditions, suggestions for improvement, and wishes for what they would like to see changed. Someone would be charged with continuously checking submissions to this portal, and as appropriate responding, compiling, summarizing and translating them and referring them to the authorities concerned. The value of such a channel has been acknowledged and consideration will be given to it. It may be instituted at the central level or at the local level (by some or all local governments), or at both.
The current NDC initiative is primarily aimed at helping local governments to understand foreigner needs and take effective action to meet these. It primarily involves the provision of more and better English in government and other public offices, services, websites and signage, and encouraging and aiding private-sector service providers such as shops, restaurants, etc. to do likewise. The extent to which local governments can be brought on board will vary, but some have already shown quite strong enthusiasm for and commitment to it, particularly Tainan, Penghu and Taitung County governments.
A study on how to pursue these aims has been commissioned and is close to completion. I attended a meeting at the NDC yesterday to review and discuss the preliminary draft of the 700-page final report. The people preparing the report did seek input from foreigners living in Taiwan, but didn’t set about it in a very effective manner - they asked ICRT for help, put a long and complicated questionnaire online, and asked some universities to distribute questionnaires to foreign students. Few people would be bothered to fill out the long and not-so-well-constructed questionnaire, so the response was very limited, and the content of only small value. They still need to gain a better understanding of what improvements the average foreigner would most wish to see.
One part of the project is the construction of indicators to identify where each local government is performing well in “internationalization”, and where it falls short or lags behind others. It also includes the provision of SOPs and manuals to help local government officials understand and address internationalization needs, and the formation of teams to guide and assist them.
Some of the action that needs to be taken can only be done at the central government level, and may also be included within this initiative. One thing that has already been done is the improvement of the English in ATMs. New translations have been provided to the FSC’s Banking Bureau, and banks will be encouraged to adopt these. Notice has also been taken of the problem with using ARC numbers in computer systems, and this issue will be addressed.
As always with any government action these days, the main constraint on how much can be done is budget. Local governments bewail that they’d love to do more but have limited funds available for these purposes, so how about the central government shelling out some financial support; and the central government replies that it wishes it could, but it also has a very limited budget for such purposes at its disposal.
Here’s my suggestion. I would start here, and see how far down the rabbit hole you wanna go.
Any variation of “how to, how do i, where do i”… and “taiwan, taipei, hsinchu, etc…”
google.com/trends/explore#q … o%20taiwan
[quote=“Omniloquacious”]
As always with any government action these days, the main constraint on how much can be done is budget. Local governments bewail that they’d love to do more but have limited funds available for these purposes, so how about the central government shelling out some financial support; and the central government replies that it wishes it could, but it also has a very limited budget for such purposes at its disposal.[/quote]
How about suggesting taking some budget out of the MOTC (or whichever government entity that is in charge of road construction) and having them stop digging up holes and re-patching them on brand new roads?
[quote=“headhonchoII”]
The lack of English menus is a big problem for visitors, I’ve often walked into a restaurant and wondered why they haven’t bothered to put some English words on the menu or even the window to tell people what they are selling. They aren’t hole in the wall places either and often sell Western food![/quote]
I’m curious as to which western restaurants would not have English descriptions. I mean, if it’s a family owned shop, I don’t blame them, but anything remotely close to a chain store would confuse me.
However, why would tourists be coming to Taiwan to eat western food?? Definitely something wrong with their itinerary if they’re flying halfway across the world to eat something they can eat at home.
[quote=“ranlee”]
However, why would tourists be coming to Taiwan to eat western food?? Definitely something wrong with their itinerary if they’re flying halfway across the world to eat something they can eat at home.[/quote]
Those targeted by the creation of a more foreigner-friendly environment are not just tourists, but also business investors, foreigners who come to Taiwan to work, and students. Taiwan needs and is trying to attract all four kinds of foreigners, whose presence in Taiwan brings varying but significant benefits in each case. The more of each of these four categories of foreigner can be persuaded to come to Taiwan, the more Taiwan will benefit. This is well understood at both central and local government levels, hence the will to try to make things easier for such foreigners while they’re here.
If you’re targeting students, I suggest improving the transportation infrastructure so it’s easier to get around. Some of the universities lack a good connection to the main cities and scooter seems to be the best way to get there, which is also dangerous.
I posted it on the other site, but I’ll summarize here:
Tourist attractions, services, agencies etc. that are of interest to foreigners each need one single, consistent and unchanging official English name. Nicknames and abbreviations are OK when used in a clear manner, but please make sure all street signage, map signage, brochures, websites and the site itself have the same name on it, so people aren’t confused. All too often I have to look at the Chinese to make sure I’m going to the right place.
The Taiwanese seem to have a love of changing names of things, but a consistent name is a key component in good branding, and when several different names are used to describe the same place, it causes confusion.
Another example - coffee shops in Taiwan including large numbers in Taipei that don’t have English signage or menus. I’m talking about the trendy independent places (to be fair some of these places don’t even a have a name sign for their establishment I just don’t understand how the customers know how to find em 
).
I understand very well that tourists may not be their main market but still it’s surprising especially when there are many tourists or foreigners in the area.
ATMs are another thing that need help in this area. When they say “Would you like to carry out another transaction?” and the options are “OK” and “Cancel”, it can be confusing.
Also, when using a foreign card in a local ATM and asked to choose the account type (even if the card only links to one account), the customer may be left wondering whether local and foreign banks use the same terminology, though fixing that would require international co-operation and communication skills among banks. 
Even though many things in Taiwan have improved over my eight years here, not even Taipei comes close to being an “international” city. Making forms,ATMs and information about transportation more foreigner friendly are all great ideas.
What about revisiting the idea of retirement visas or longer term non-immigrant visas? Nothing will internationalize Taiwan more than more foreigners as long term residents.
Many businesses don’t find a need to be foreigner friendly because they don’t see non-Chinese speaking people as their customers. As someone else noted, even some restaurants that serve Western food have menus only in Chinese because their expected customer is someone who is Chinese speaking.
The English language immigration web site for foreigners, iff.immigration.gov.tw/ , is hopelessly outdated and disorganized.
Taiwan is so far behind in terms of a real ‘international environment’ I don’t envy Omni on where to start. 
There are just so many regulations that seem to be designed to keep foreigners from immigrating or residing long term that all the other stuff is just cleaning the mould off week old stale bread. More than an international environment we want a fair environment where we can join society on equal terms and settle down as equal citizens.
- no pension equality (e.g. For employees of universities, hospitals, government institutes) and very unclear guidelines as to who is qualified to what
- no dual citizenship rights like locals
- extremely difficult (and risky) process to apply for Taiwan citizenship
- tax requirements
- residency and working rights for families of foreigners with residency rights
- national health coverage for kids born here
- access to loans and credit cards
- equal treatment under the law for divorcees and rights of continued residence and access to children for divorcees
Scrap the “public insultment” law!
That law has probably prevented a lot of fights. Taiwanese do so much stupid stuff in public when walking, driving, riding that if that law wasn’t present, you would have people swearing at each other and then more fights and more road rage breaking out.
Omniloquacious:
The work tyou are doing is excellent. Cheers mate!
Here are a couple of suggestions:
First, I would suggest that the government provide cross cultural training to front line service staff in any government organization dealing with foreigners, so that they could have more effective communication with foreign “consumers” of their services. This is usually not an issue where there is no conflict or problem. But when there are problems, some Taiwanese tend to clam up and/or use face saving lies and/or make impractical solutions. Staff need to know that this is culturally infuriating for many foreigners, and hence makes it harder to live here for expats affected by this.
Second, the government could hire foreign staff with good language and cultural skills as “embedded” contract workers in different departments (NIA, labor ministry, MOEA etc) to serve as ongoing consultants or assistants on actual cases. As excellent as your work here is, it still seems like expats are a step away from helping expats - or explaining to Taiwanese what expats need/want - directly.