Swastikas in the Taipei Times

Discussion Open Forum
81

Ohmigod, like the other day, there was like this white dude, who was wearing a WW2 replica bomber jacket, and it had the rising sun symbol on it. Doesn’t he know that it’s a symbol of Japanese Imperial Aggression?

And then like I was watching Top Gun, and this black pilot had this helmet on which had the rising sun motif on it. Doesn’t Hollywood know that’s offensive, cuz it reminds me of th Nanjing Massacre.

So I’m here to put in the obligatory “You people just don’t understand Taiwanese culture.”

I’m sorry to say, the world is bigger than american hippity hop pop culture.

82

[quote=“R. Daneel Olivaw”][quote=“zhujianlun”][quote=“xi fang bu bai”]I have nothing against religious symbols, but it’s obviously not on his chest for religious purposes. Come on people, use your brains, dont sit on them.

Where did I say I was against the swastika or sauvastika as a religious symbol?

If I were to wear a shirt saying “fXXX taiwan” but I spelled it wrong, would it make it any less offensive?[/quote]

Given that your moniker there is in flawless Pinyin and is roughly translatable as “Occident, the Invincible” (punning on “dongfang bubai”) I suspect you are only too aware that the swastika is Buddhist and that you are here to stir up some shit.[/quote]
I think he’s learning Chinese and didn’t actually know that piece of trivia. I didn’t know that about the symbol until I had learned Chinese for more than a year and a half. It’s quite possible he was ignorant of that and is now embarrassed about his blunder.

Dong Fang, you should make a retraction and make more inquiries before passing judgement in the future.

Nothing wrong with occasionally being… wrong. Just try not to persist in your errors.[/quote]

Not to mention in the novel and movie version of dongfang bubai, the protagonist had to cut off his wee-wee to achieve a higher state of Kung Fu…

Why would a poster want to take up the moniker of someone that deliberiately castrated himself, just to make an observation of Buddist symbols in Asia…

83

[quote=“Rascal”]Here is something for the OP to get upset about:

Imagine that dude walking around town or appearing in the newspaper![/quote]
But Ed Norton’s character found redemption at the end of American History X. So even the hardest core gang banging neo-Nazi has a chance to see the light.

Buddism thrives to see individuals go through this kind of self enlightment.

Not to mention the real Dereck Vineyard is on the speaking circuit in the USA talking about the wrongs of racial hatred.

So Ironically, I would be supportive of more Dereck Vineyards in world.

84

[quote=“ac_dropout”][quote=“Rascal”]Here is something for the OP to get upset about:

Imagine that dude walking around town or appearing in the newspaper![/quote]
But Ed Norton’s character found redemption at the end of American History X. So even the hardest core gang banging neo-Nazi has a chance to see the light.

Buddism thrives to see individuals go through this kind of self enlightment.

Not to mention the real Dereck Vineyard is on the speaking circuit in the USA talking about the wrongs of racial hatred.

So Ironically, I would be supportive of more Dereck Vineyards in world.[/quote]

who is the real dereck vineyard (I did a google search, nothing came up).

85

[quote=“Jack Burton”]

who is the real dereck vineyard (I did a google search, nothing came up).[/quote]

the guy the movie “american history x” was based on.

google again without the “c” in his first name …[/url]

86

Yep, when I first arrived on the island that’s what I thought the local folks were saying. I was quite horrified until someone told me what they actually were saying. Didn’t I feel sheepish… :blush:

87

[quote=“xtrain”][quote=“Jack Burton”]

who is the real dereck vineyard (I did a google search, nothing came up).[/quote]

the guy the movie “American history x” was based on.

google again without the “c” in his first name …[/url][/quote]

hmm. can only find references to the movie not the “real guy”.

88

Yep, when I first arrived on the island that’s what I thought the local folks were saying. I was quite horrified until someone told me what they actually were saying. Didn’t I feel sheepish… :blush:[/quote]
My best friend damned near got his ass kicked once in Dallas for pointing at a guy and saying “that one”. He was talking about the man’s jacket. Luckily he is a seriously smooth talker and was able to get out unscathed.

89

I’ve heard similar stories in the US. It’s compounded by the fact that people often repeat it, as if stuttering - “nei-ge…nei-ge…nei-ge” - as they think of what to say next. It’s like English “y’know, like, like, y’know”.

90

or resent, we are just re-feeling…over and over…“I’m NEVER going to forgive him/her for that!”.

How many people do you/we know that define themselves by the very hate/intollerance they have for someone else? How sad they are, suffocating on their own poison and/or projecting it onto others.

When I decided to become a better parent, I read. Now I am convinced that all the great parents are Jewish. (Well, Jesus might disagree…“Why me Father?”). In addition, when I studied physics, I came to know that all the great physicists are Jewish. So believe me when I say that I have the greatest respect for Jewish people…(and secretly wish that I too was “blessed as Ephraim and Mannaseh”).

However, I humbly suggest that I think a movie needs to be made, and that movie needs to be called, “The Last Movie Ever To Be Made About The Holocaust.”…Why? Because I think there is a thin line between making sure that I/(other people) remember what happened to me, and me just poisoning myself as I resent. (Yes, sort of off on a tangent now, but I wonder how many “Rwanda Hotel”-like movies will be made?..btw…This is a great rental as long as you make sure you have lots of tissues near you!)

It IS important to FORGIVE AND…I bet you thought I was going to say “FORGET”, right?

Forgive?..Yes! Forget?..Never!..However, you only hurt yourself when you resent.

You will get better if you can accept a little pain. Not only will you not react so easily, but also you’ll be able to laugh at your own tragedies. For after all, what is comedy (as Woody Allen suggests) but being emotionally removed from tragedy through a process of time.

Unfortunately, one can also be emotionally removed from tragedy through indifference…which is in essence, a lack of empathy…and there isn’t much we can do for those who are cursed with this.
However, we can work on ourselves with the hope that we no longer react to (what we may or may not perceive to be) the limitations of others.

It might also help to keep in mind, that no two people view the same sentence in the same way, (I forget who said this?).

So are you now ready to laugh at your own tragedies? NO?..Well, that’s ok for now, but ([color=blue]PLEASE check out: hoffmaninstitute.ca/[/color] )…in the meantime, I welcome you to come and laugh at my/our tragedies:

[Help me I've been hypnotized!

p.s. 黑! All I’z sayn iz…that there’s 2 sides to every cracker!
p.p.s. I’ve recently broke up with my g.f., so I’ve changed my English name to Byran…謝謝

91

Just an example of why you shouldn’d be to quick to judge anothers motives for wearing a helmet adorned with (what you, not them) may call a Swastika etc etc…

To quote another poster on another thread in the Open Forum:
“Note the cramped living conditions in which the
coolies
have no fans to keep cool as their employers and government officials want to cut down on costs.This is the way life was back in “05”.”

Coolie is a very derogatory term for Indian people in South Africa, much the same as nigger is in America. And yes, I’m well aware of the origin of the term coolie. But in the same fashion, nigger is merely derived from the word negro (which is merely an African racial classification such as Bantu or Khoi-San), and the Swastika is merely derived from the symbol for buddhism. All very innocent in it’s derivation, but scathing and racist in it’s application. The point being, rather think what the symbol or word means to the person who wears the symbol (something else, or maybe nothing at all) or utters the word (different meaning perhaps, such as coolie or nei ge).

Tolerance is not just accepting other people regardless of race, colour, religion, culture or creed, but also tolerating and accepting that what you may find offensive may not be so for the other person. In fact, that person may not even be aware of the fact that you find it offensive or why…

92

[quote=“bismarck”]Just an example of why you shouldn’d be to quick to judge anothers motives for wearing a helmet adorned with (what you, not them) may call a Swastika etc etc…

To quote another poster on another thread in the Open Forum:
“Note the cramped living conditions in which the
coolies
have no fans to keep cool as their employers and government officials want to cut down on costs.This is the way life was back in “05”.”

Coolie is a very derogatory term for Indian people in South Africa, much the same as nigger is in America. And yes, I’m well aware of the origin of the term coolie. But in the same fashion, nigger is merely derived from the word negro (which is merely an African racial classification such as Bantu or Khoi-San), and the Swastika is merely derived from the symbol for buddhism. All very innocent in it’s derivation, but scathing and racist in it’s application. The point being, rather think what the symbol or word means to the person who wears the symbol (something else, or maybe nothing at all) or utters the word (different meaning perhaps, such as coolie or nei ge).

Tolerance is not just accepting other people regardless of race, colour, religion, culture or creed, but also tolerating and accepting that what you may find offensive may not be so for the other person. In fact, that person may not even be aware of the fact that you find it offensive or why…[/quote]

Coolie is also a derogatory term for Chinese manual laborers (but expanded to mean any manual laborer. (I think it has its origins in a Cantonese word, or something along those lines).

93

drink and post

94

[quote=“Quentin”]an unapolegetic racist, which hardly anybody in America or Europe has been for over 30 years)…
I’m, err, um, sorta drunk…take it as you may.[/quote]

First of all, why don’t you sober up before you post again. Second, hardly any racists in either America or Europe? lol, you’ve obviously never met skinheads.

95

I meant 99% of the mainstream people. Extremist cults are everywhere. If you think that skinheads represent normal people, you’re the one that’s fucked.

96

which country are you talking about?

97

which country are you talking about?[/quote]

Knowing Quentin when he’s had a few, he’s probably not sure himself… :unamused:

Quentin, you totally missed the point of my post. Perhaps the one projecting is…um…you?
Lay off the booze before you post.

98

The chap with the swastika tatoo (he doenst look very buddhist) isnt not the main culprit here. The people who should take responsibility for printing an inflammatory and totally insenstive picture are the editors of the Taipei Times. They presumably know something about European history. They owe an apology and should make a donation, say US$50,000, to Binai B’rith or the Simon Weisenthal foundation, or whoever. You can be sure if the Taipei Times were forced to pay cash for printing trash like that they wouldn’t do it twice.

99

Take another look. The guy has several tattoos, ALL of which are Buddhist designs. :unamused:
And WTF are you on about? European history? The guy’s Taiwanese, the newspaper’s Taiwanese, for fuck’s sake! It’s got sweet fuck all to do with Nazis or European history, no matter what you, in your ignorant little bubble of Western righteousness might think.
Tell me, who do you think should be pilloried for the hundreds and hundreds of swastikas on Buddhist vegetarian restaurants and temples? Round up the monks and nuns? Burn all their swatika images? Smash their bain maries and stamp on their sauteed eggplant and tofu stew?
This whole argument is a bunch of bullshit. Listen up. This is NOT Europe. The tattoo in the photograph is NOT a Nazi swastika.
Insensitive? Insensitive to whom? Why should the editors pander to the whims of ignorant buffoons who have no idea what they’re talking about, and not even any idea of what it is they’re LOOKING at?

100

He doesn’t look buddhist? He has a huge buddhist symbol on his chest! (Once again, it is not a Nazi symbol). What exactly do Buddhists look like? He’s gotta dress up in robes? And all Christians should look like Friar Tuck, too, right?

What is inflammatory about a guy with a Buddhist symbol?
Now, let’s take this to the extreme. What if he was a card carrying member of the Neo-Nazi KKK 911 Enthusiasts of Taiwan and had a T-shirt with the real Nazi symbol on a Rebel Flag background that read: “911, Woot! A lot of dirty Jews and N***grs died!” and was carrying a burning US flag.

Would it be irresponsible for the newspaper to run the photo? Nope. It would be good journalism, capturing on film some of the extreme views held by people.

I’m sure they do, but they also know something about Asian culture, too, and they know that this is not a Nazi symbol. And even if it were a Nazi symbol, so what?

Freedom of Expression, Freedom of the Press. If a guy wants to express extreme racist views, and a newspaper wants to cover them, that’s only right.

But, you know, this issue isn’t even about that since it’s NOT A NAZI/RACIST SYMBOL!