Swedes bar schools from teaching religion "as if true"

Politics International Politics
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Swedish government makes it illegal for schools to teach religious doctrine as if it were true

[quote]The Swedish government has announced plans to clamp down hard on religious education. It will soon become illegal even for private faith schools to teach religious doctrines as if they were true. In an interesting twist on the American experience, prayer will remain legal in schools - after all, it has no truth value. But everything that takes place on the curriculum’s time will have to be secular. “Pupils must be protected from every sort of fundamentalism,” said the minister for schools, Jan Björklund.

Creationism and ID are explicitly banned but so is proselytising even in religious education classes. The Qur’an may not be taught as if it is true even in Muslim independent schools, nor may the Bible in Christian schools. The decision looks like a really startling attack on the right of parents to have their children taught what they would like. Of course it does not go so far as the Dawkins policy of prohibiting parents from trying to pass on their doctrines even in their own families - and, if it did, it would certainly run foul of the European convention on human rights. It does not even go as far as Nyamko Sabuni, the minister for integration - herself born in Burundi - would like: she wanted to ban all religious schools altogether. But it is still a pretty drastic measure from an English perspective.[/quote]

My social Libertarian and anti-religious ‘education’ selves are clashing on this issue. I strongly sympathize with Sweden’s intentions in doing this, despite my inclination to say it’s a rather statist even for Sweden (which once introduced a money-for-sterilization program in jails to weed out criminally-inclined DNA!)

One interesting by-product is that Swedish Christians and Muslims will find themselves holding signs and shouting together outside the same government buildings!

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As long as the Cult of Odin is allowed to be taugh in Swedish schools and be allowed to flourish…

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In the US, it’s illegal for public schools to teach religion as if true. This is the way it should be: the government has no business telling kids which god to worship and how to do so.

Private schools are a different matter.

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I think that’s the point. The usual idea among western countries is that the state can (and should) provide a decent, unbiased education, but that ultimately parents are responsible and can have children taught as they feel fit. This however goes beyond that and beyond usual notions of separation of church and state because it reaches into an area where the state is only tangentially involved, if at all. That seems to me to be getting further from simply not being involved with religion, and closer to actually starting to control religion. I hope this type of thinking stays in Sweden.

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Is it just me or is Western Civilization’s capacity for rational thought and behavior disintegrating nearly everywhere you look – and our prospects for a rational future along with it?

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Odin are NOT evil cult!!

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This seems like a great idea, after all state prohibition of religion worked so well in Eastern Europe.

These people will be living in an Islamic state in a couple of generations.

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[quote=“KingZog”]This seems like a great idea, after all state prohibition of religion worked so well in Eastern Europe.

These people will be living in an Islamic state in a couple of generations.[/quote]

Uh, I think the whole idea of this bill is to prevent that
From Wiki:

[quote]In a July 17, 2006, opinion letter published in the Swedish newspaper Expressen, Sabuni called for mandatory gynecological examinations of all schoolgirls in order to prevent genital mutilation (also known as female circumcision).[4] She has proposed a ban on hijab for girls under 15 and also advocated the inclusion of honor killings as an independent category within the Swedish criminal code.[5] In July 2006 her book Flickorna vi sviker (“The Girls We Betray”), about women in Sweden living under the threat of honor violence, was published.

On October 6, 2006, the new Swedish coalition government which emerged from the election announced Sabuni’s appointment as the new Minister for Integration and Gender Equality.[5] She is the first person of African descent to be appointed as Minister in a Swedish government.[3][5]

Sabuni’s appointment as Minister for Integration and Gender Equality was met with protests from Sweden’s Muslims, who accused her of islamophobia and populism.[6] A petition against her appointment was signed by the Muslim Association of Sweden, which claims to be the largest organization represFenting Muslims in Sweden.[7][/quote]

Hardly sounds like someone wishing to impose an Islamic state.

That’s the whole point behind this bill- it’s aimed at Muslim schools, but has to cover all schools to avoid charges of bias. I sincerely doubt that the Education Ministry is worried about a mass outbreak of Christian Fundamentalism in Sweden.

It’s like the French ban on headscarves- they had to toss in ‘large’ crosses and yarmulkes to give themselves some cover.

Incidentally, Sweden has a voucher system- those private schools are paid for out of taxes- if a student doesn’t wish to go to the public school, the exact equivalent of money is available as a voucher to allow the student to attend any private school they choose.

I’d say the governmment was worried about some of the choices being made by the immigrant population though they may also be concerned about some creationists setting up schools which don’t teach science.

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Yup, this is all to prevent crazy Christian and Muslim schools. We’ve had a few scandals around here… I’ve went through regular school in Sweden and no religion was ever touted as “true”.

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Ooops- always follow the link :blush:

From where Vay left off:

[quote]The law is being presented in Sweden as if it mostly concerned fundamentalist Christian sects in the backwoods; but the Christian Democratic party, which represents such people if anyone does, is perfectly happy with the new regulation. There is little doubt that combating Islamic fundamentalism is the underlying aim, especially in conjunction with another new requirement that all independent schools declare all their funding sources. This would allow the inspectors - whose budget is being doubled - to concentrate their efforts on those schools most likely to be paid to break the rules.

In the background to these announcements comes the release of a frightening documentary film on Swedish jihadis, which follows young men over a period of two years on their slow conversion to homicidal lunacy. [/quote]

I bolded part that’s kind of puzzling- as I understood it the existing voucher law already prevents “topping up” i.e. spending from private contributions of more than the voucher allows; it was put in by those egalitarian Swedes to prevent a class-based distinction arising btween private and public schools.

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It all sounds like China Scandinavian-style to me. Are they going to outlaw the teaching of Falun Gong beliefs, too?

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Do you guys support private school’s right to teach all manner of nonsense as though it were true, or just the well established nonsense? Just curious.

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Outlawing nonsense is a slippery slope, bob. Trust me on this. If they ever outlaw nonsense it’s only a matter of time before the thought police show up at your door.

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All manner of nonsense, established nonsense, and stuff that isn’t nonsense.

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OK, I’m convinced. From now on I will support whole heartedly the private school right to teach, as truth, any and all manner of nonsense, including nonsense that isn’t nonsense, as well as any and all theories, schools of thought, philosophical proofs etc. related to nonsense, nonsense that isn’t nonsense, or anything else one might happen to think of. Life is short and I’m feeling agreeable.

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Keep it up, bob. You’re not fooling me. You know, the Ministry of Truth is paying a bounty on people with attitude problems and I could use the money.

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In that case from now on I will no longer support whole heartedly the private school right to teach, as truth, any and all manner of nonsense, including nonsense that isn’t nonsense, as well as any and all theories, schools of thought, philosophical proofs etc. related to nonsense, nonsense that isn’t nonsense, or anything else one might happen to think of. Life is long and I’m feeling argumentative.

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No you’re not.

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Oh alright. From now on I no longer have any interest whatsoever in what does or does not happen in the private schools of Sweden. I neither support nor reject their right to teach, as truth, any and all manner of nonsense, including nonsense that isn’t nonsense, as well as any and all theories, schools of thought, philosophical proofs etc. related to nonsense, nonsense that isn’t nonsense, or anything else one might happen to think of. Life feels long but in the grand scheme of things is, admittedly, actually rather short. I am prepared to waffle this way or that, or not, until such a time as the abstract nonsensical repetitive and pedagogical becomes an object of study, or not, like the rest of the nonsense taught in the Swedish private school system, etc.

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How about what goes on in Swedish private homes, bob? Are you willing to let your vested interest in what goes on inside them go too or is de-nonsensitizing them still on the table, so to speak? After all, they’re the source of much of the nonsense the Swedish govenments seems determined to root out.