[quote=“kjmillig”][quote=“jimipresley”]
Oh fer chrissakes! The [color=#BF0040]world[/color] spells it as “Taipei”. As they do for “Russia”, “Mexico”, etc. We don’t go around spelling them “Rushiaa”, “Meyico” do we?[/quote]
Who’s this “they” you speak of? Russians spell Russia like this: Россия. They spell Taibei like this: Тайбэй. In Arabic, Taibei is written
تايبيه
.So lets not get presumtuous about other peoples languages. Mr. Wade and Mr Giles may bot have invented the best Romanization system, but lets not mangle Chinese because of their mistakes.[/quote]
Well for the Americans benefit Taipei is really pronounced more like Thai-Bay.
That will set us further apart from being confused with Thailand no doubt (not)>.
It is funny that you guys write the example of Mexico. Did you know that in Mexico, the “x” is pronounced at least 4 different ways? As a “j” sound, an “x”, “s”, even “sch”?
Back to Taipei/Taibei: I initially felt like the OP, it was shocking to say the least. But truth be told, all I care about is that tehy use ONE system and we all agree on it.
Choose: Taipei or Taibei. Make a poll. Flip a coin. But use just one.
I mean, we had Bombay and now it’s Mumbai. It was a change in government policies, and implemened worldwise. No biggie.
If the rest of the world ( except, it would appear the Germans) can seemingly label the capital of PRC as ‘Beijing’ and not ‘Peking’, then why shouldn’t it be ‘Taibei’? It sounds a closer appoximation to how it’s actually pronounced.
Same for Zhong-li.
[quote=“TheGingerMan”]… label the capital of PRC as ‘Beijing’ and not ‘Peking’, …
[/quote]
But darned if almost every person I’ve heard on TV or talked to (except those that speak Chinese) can’t pronounce it correctly to save their lives. It always comes out with a soft 'j" sound, like the French name “Jean”, which doesn’t even exist in the Chinese language.
Well, if Mexico is a bad example, how about Arkansas?
Why on earth it is pronounced like “Arkansaw”, or why was it spelled by English speaking folks “Arkansas” when the name in the dialect of the Indian tribe there was pronounced like “Arkansaw”. Why then is Kansas not pronounced “Kansaw”?
Now, before you go and “Wiki” it, here is what it says there:
"The name Arkansas derives from the same root as the name for the State of Kansas. The Kansas tribe of American Indians are closely associated with the Sioux tribes. The word is a French pronunciation of a Quapaw (a related “Kaw” tribe) word meaning “land of downriver people” or “people of the south wind”. The pronunciation of Arkansas was made official by an act of the state legislature in 1881 after a dispute between the two U.S. Senators from Arkansas. One wanted to pronounce the name /ɑrˈkænzəs/ ar-KAN-zəs and the other wanted /ˈɑrkənsɔː/ AR-kən-saw.[4]
See, they had a dispute 128 years ago and made a decision to pronounce the name differently from how it is spelled. Why didn’t they just change the “s” for a “w”?
Nothin’ “politically” correct about it. It’s just correct, in terms of representing the sound of the word using the dominant Hanyu Pinyin system. The spelling of Taipei isn’t “correct” in either WG or PY; rather, it’s an eyesore of a mistake perpetuated by generations of the ignorant. The OP can spell his own writings however he bloody likes, but to openly insult anyone who doesn’t MISspell the word the way he does is not only ignorant, but rude and immature.
Ho, Mr Dragonbones, you have completely understood. I do not “misspell” the word.
It is as obvious to me as it is to everyone else, that the correct pronunciation is “Taibei”. My point is: Look at any recent map or atlas done in ENGLISH, and it is written “Taipei”. When people writing in English refer to the goddamned “capital” of Taiwan as “Taibei”, I just think it’s a tad pretentious. Just because we live here and know the correct pronunciation, doesn’t mean we have to be smug about it.
God, even the Taiwanese aren’t so precious. They know that the English-speaking world spells it “Taipei”, and therefore street signs and airport notices spell it the same.
I’m sorry if I offended you. I know it’s really a non-issue and I was a little “happy” when I made my OP. My intention was not to insult, merely to rile a little. Apologies again.
The Chinese language doesn’t have voiced b, d or g. Pinyin letters b, d or g represent unaspirated voiceless sounds p, t, k (in such languages like French, Spanish, Russian, Japanese). (In English this sounds are slightly aspirated)
Pinyin letters p, t, k convey aspirated, voiceless p, t, k. Similar to English but the aspiration is much stronger.
b-p d-t g-k
p-pʰ t-tʰ k-kʰ
Pronouncing Pinyin B as English B is not a huge mistake and you will be understood. It is better than making it sound like English P, which has some aspiration in it. Still to be exact, there is no voice in Chinese B.
Since both Taipei City and the ROC have decided to retain the original spelling of the city in WG, I think the only real sensible thing to do is to respect that and use that in correspondences. Romanization in Taiwan has always been screwed up, but since you will almost never see Taibei in print one ought to take it as a sign that it’s an unaccepted spelling.
What about all those African clicky languages (i’m not sure what they are called). How would we romanize that stuff perfectly? That is surely harder than the whole Taipei/ Taibei thingy.
[quote=“Dragonbones”]
Sure, and we should ride the wrong way down one way streets, while spitting betel nut juice, too! Whatever the locals do, it must be right!
Yes, let’s take our cues on Romanization from the locals, most of whom couldn’t use a single one properly! :loco:[/quote]
Comparing breaking the laws and making ONE exception on Romanization are hardly fair. If you feel so strong about spelling it Taibei try to get some noises started and petition the government to have it changed, see what they say about it. There have been discussions on this publicly when the country decided to adopt pinyin, and it was decided to leave Taipei alone as the name has already gathered international recognition and hardly makes any sense to have it changed.
