[quote=“Mucha Man”][quote=“archylgp”][quote=“Muzha Man”][quote=“archylgp”]From the United Nations:
‘‘The largest methamphetamine seizures at the global level during this period were made by China, Thailand, USA, and Taiwan, Prov. of China.’’
I can’t see how Taiwan can be listed as having one of the largest methamphetamine seizures in the world without having a drug problem.[/quote]
Why? Organized crime here operates worldwide. Drug smuggling is the only dream ever realized from plans for Taiwan to be an APROC.[/quote]
Does that qualify as a drug problem? I would think so.[/quote]
A drug smuggling problem. Yes. Taiwan also has a problem with smuggling but it doesn’t have a problem with its own people being smuggled.[/quote]
I wouldn’t think so. Your point is well taken, though. I would guess that drug smuggling correlates with drug consumption to an extent. Considering that most of the mob here is untouchable, this consumption won’t show up in the statistics.
I just skimmed through a 311-paged report – United Nations, Office of Drug and Crime: 2008 World Drug Report.
China is a mess. It is not listed in many of the stat summaries simply because they don’t have stats for China. Where it does show up, it is generally ranked high. The US is ranking poorly, as we would expect. Interestingly, a higher % of the population in Australia uses ecstasy compared to the US. I wouldn’t have guessed that. Taiwan is better off than the US and China, of course. In at least one case Taiwan leads South and East Asia in illegal drug consumption - ecstasy (% of population). (Maybe all those shirts are for real?).
It appears there isn’t a drug problem here because drug use isn’t visible in Taiwan like it is in the US. This has been said over and over. I have tried to show this problem using reports from the UN and the Taiwanese government. Show me something besides a new-wave cultural analysis and the observations of a tourist and I may think differently.
I am not one of the ones disputing your claims. I think they are sound.[/quote]
Yeah. That wasn’t aimed at you. I think you brought up a good point: international smuggling as the reason for the extremely large presence of narcotics on the island (opposed to local consumption).
I just went though the 2012 UN report. There is a lot interesting history in these reports, covering the development and elimination of the opium crisis in China during the19 century; mention of Taiwan as a center for drug manufacturing after World War Two. I suggest going through these reports if you’re interested in the topic. (The 2012 report lacks a lot data that was in the 2008 report.)
More relevant to this post, everything seems to be on the rise in China, with heroin being the drug of choice.
what was that about religion being the opium of the masses? it’s beginning to look like heroin is the new opium of the Chinese masses. Hooray: China goes full circle. No British to blame this time either!
Several observations after spending a few hours looking at reports:
(1) The demand for heron in China has redirected trafficking patterns. Opium grown in SE Asia was primarily sent to North America. Now, though, the majority is sent to China, where the demand for heron is larger than what can be produced in the SE. This has led to opium being smuggled from Afghanistan through Pakistan into China, which previously was destined to Europe. The US gets almost all of its heron from South America/Mexico now, where there are relatively small production capabilities. Europe still gets opium from Afghanistan.
(2) Since Taiwan’s population is aging, there may be a decrease in drug use. Although, as family values continue to carry less importance and the population continues to urbanize, drug use rates may continue to increase. It’s hard to say what will happen.
(3) The demand for cocaine in the US has plummeted over the last three decades. Cocaine use in Europe has peaked and is slowly declining. It is unclear if the demand for cocaine will shift to Asia.
(4) Cocaine and ecstasy use in Taiwan are the highest in SE/East Asia.
(5) I put some stats together and in 2008 about 2-3% of Taiwan’s population have been identified users of cannabis, ecstasy, cocaine, amphetamines, or opiates. This number is higher now.
are there any taiwanese celebrities/actors/musicians, etc. who overdosed? or have drug problems and get admitted into rehab? i dont think i’ve heard of any or else it would be reported in the media. i mean i read some instances where they were caught with E or pot, but i’m talking hardcore drug addiction. you always hear about american/western celebrities overdosing like most recently whitney houston, amy winehouse, etc. and you read about the ones who are always struggling with drug problems and constantly going in/out of rehab, e.g., celebrity rehab shows, gossip columns, etc.
The Chinese culture argument just went down the drain.[/quote]
china has one of the world’s largest meth markets cuz it has 1.3 billion people!!! but what percentage of it’s own population actually USE the drug? what percentage of it’s population have drug addiction?? do you have those statistics?
anyway, back to taiwan, seems to me you are trying very hard to convince us that taiwan has a big drug problem even tho you dont have the statistics to back it up outside of your own percentage “estimations” which you concocted based on info you found on the internet. you say traveling thru the country and not seeing ghetto neighborhoods with crackheads and dealers walking about like here in the u.s. or not reading about violent drug related crimes reported in taiwan’s media is not enough to deduce that taiwan doesnt have a big drug problem. then where is your factual statistics that support the evidence that taiwan does have a big drug problem?
there’s even a yahoo question about it. some of the answers are funny. one person said “15 million taiwanese are suffering from drug addiction”. thats a HUGE drug problem!! LOL
check out this story of this foreigner’s experience in taiwan being caught with pot. him and his wife got arrested and imprisoned. for just “0.8 grams of hash”!! sounded like a huge ordeal. maybe this guy is one of you? hmmmm…
geez, imagine if it was cocaine!! now i know why taiwan doesnt seem to have a big drug problem. besides the criminal punishment, it seems like it would be a huge embarrassment in taiwanese society if people know you use drugs even just pot where everyone will pass judgment on you. guess that’s enough to convince people not to use drugs. i dont suppose taiwan would ever allow medicinal marijuana like here in california. which sucks cuz those edibles sure are good!!
‘‘The largest methamphetamine seizures at the global level during this period were made by China, Thailand, USA, and Taiwan, Prov. of China.’’
---------I can’t see how Taiwan can be listed as having one of the largest methamphetamine seizures in the world without having a drug problem.
'According to the UN, in 2002, 2003, 2004, more meth was sized in Taiwan than the US. In overall rankings from 2000-2006, Taiwan is ranked just under the US. China is ranked first with more than double that of the US.[/quote]
You need to learn more about Taiwan’s history, I have indirectly given you the reason already. Taiwan was a major transshipment point for illegal drugs back in the day, mostly through Kaoshiung. The huge heroin seizures were destined for other places. Even the latest shipment may have been destined for somewhere else, who knows.
And no alcohol is not illegal and Is not in the same league as meth, crack, cocaine or heroin.
Taiwan isn’t in SE Asia. It’s GDP per capita is approx five times countries in SE Asia.
Until I can see the obvious effects of drug abuse on the population at large I remain completely unconvinced there is any real drug problem here. There are people taking XTC (which is not addictive) and amphetamines, , but you just don’t see hordes of junkies roaming the streets. In fact I can’t remember the last time I saw a junkie in Taiwan. I have never seen any open drug dealing either nor have I been approached to buy any.
Okay, you’ve convinced me: Taiwan doesn’t have a drug problem.
[quote=“forealz”]check out this story of this foreigner’s experience in taiwan being caught with pot. him and his wife got arrested and imprisoned. for just “0.8 grams of hash”!! sounded like a huge ordeal. maybe this guy is one of you? hmmmm…
Other than seeing evidence of the use of drugs which have been deemed outside the scope of this discussion, and other than things inferred from things seen and heard in some rundown neighborhoods I’ve lived in, or heard in reference to these neighborhoods (and rundown neighborhoods 'way predate meth, heroin, crack, etc.), and other than a few isolated anecdotal incidents over a period of decades, from which no sound conclusions relevant to this discussion can be reasonably drawn, my experiences in the U. S. are pretty similar to your experiences in Taiwan.
When I was living in the U. S., I didn’t see any hordes of addicts roaming the streets, and I didn’t see any obvious effects of drug abuse on the population at large. To see open drug dealing, I would have had to make a special effort to seek it out. And I don’t recall ever being approached to buy any of the drugs which are considered to be within the scope of this discussion. So if I were to apply your method of analysis to my home country, I guess I would have to conclude that the U. S. doesn’t have a drug problem.
but the fact is there are such dangerous neighborhoods in towns and cities across america strewn with drug addicts and dealers and drug related crimes and gang activity. it’s constantly reported in the media. everyone knows that. america is also a much bigger country than taiwan. if taiwan had such neighborhoods and had drug related crimes EVERYONE on the island would know about it, dont you think?? everyone would be saying “oh stay away from so-and-so part of taipei or taichung or kaohsiung cuz it’s overrun with drug activity and dealers and gangs and shootings, etc.” in the u.s. we all know about the infamous bad parts of cities without even needing to venture there, e.g., compton in l.a., harlem in nyc (actually harlem’s bad rep is old news now; it’s been cleaning up and gentrifying and is getting pretty affluent with all the yuppies moving there!), parts of detroit and san francisco/oakland in bay area, chula vista and various areas along the mexican border in san diego county, etc.
In Dublin you can see the junkies in the city centre everyday, you don’t even have to go to deprived neighborhoods. You will see almost every shop and restaurant has security guards to keep the junkie scum out.
In Taiwan, while there are down at heel neighborhoods, you will not see open drug dealing or gang fights over territory. You will not see street bums and junkies hanging out on corners shooting up. There are almost no security guards anywhere except for banks and large supermarkets. When you take public transport you will not see people out of their heads (although you will meet some crazies).
There is nowhere in Taiwan that has a ghetto comparable to the projects in the US or other countries.
You do not even see people smoking joints because you will go jail. There is drug abuse but it’s a minor problem here, compared to alcohol abuse, or domestic violence, or poor working conditions…not so obvious in society.
When I was living in the U. S., I didn’t see any hordes of addicts roaming the streets, and I didn’t see any obvious effects of drug abuse on the population at large. To see open drug dealing, I would have had to make a special effort to seek it out. And I don’t recall ever being approached to buy any of the drugs which are considered to be within the scope of this discussion. So if I were to apply your method of analysis to my home country, I guess I would have to conclude that the U. S. doesn’t have a drug problem.[/quote]
This is absurd.
Where did you live in the US, a little frikkin bubble? Or perhaps WAYYYY out in the boonies (where, nowadays, meth and OC are a HUGGGE problem).
Seriously, you have to be absolutely blind or something. Ever been to NY, LA, Chicago…shit, Louisville KY or Memphis TN? ALL these places have ghettos with junkies shooting up in the streets!
Don’t make conclusions about a color scheme if you are color blind or wear blindfolds. Have to make “special effort” to see open drug dealing? Are you SERIOUS? I can’t count how many times in a parking lot of a grocery store, walgreens, etc where I have seen huge drug deals go down while I was simply walking from my car to the store…and I am talking about in NICE neighborhoods like Encino (LA) and Scottsdale (Phoenix) which are places I could never afford to live.
No, in the US you have to go out of your way to NOT see it…and apparently, you did.
[quote=“headhonchoII”]In Dublin you can see the junkies in the city centre everyday, you don’t even have to go to deprived neighborhoods. You will see almost every shop and restaurant has security guards to keep the junkie scum out.
In Taiwan, while there are down at heel neighborhoods, you will not see open drug dealing or gang fights over territory. You will not see street bums and junkies hanging out on corners shooting up. There are almost no security guards anywhere except for banks and large supermarkets. When you take public transport you will not see people out of their heads (although you will meet some crazies).
There is nowhere in Taiwan that has a ghetto comparable to the projects in the US or other countries.
You do not even see people smoking joints because you will go jail. There is drug abuse but it’s a minor problem here, compared to alcohol abuse, or domestic violence, or poor working conditions…not so obvious in society.[/quote]
i honestly felt completely safe traveling throughout taiwan, even late at night whether they be in big cities or small boonie towns in the countryside. you really cannot say the same when traveling thru the u.s. sure, there are parts of taiwan with homeless looking people loitering in the streets and neighborhoods that “look” dirty and run-down, but i attributed that to the kmt era of building ugly temporary concrete structures and taiwanese lack of care for building maintenance rather than criminals and junkies controlling the area.
