[quote=“grootkrokodil”]In SA many people now use their ATM cards as debit cards. You just swipe your ATM card at the pay point, enter your pin, and off you go. So convenient and no need to carry around large amounts of cash. You also can’t overspend, because it will only allow you to spend the money you have in your account.
Wonder how long it will take before we have THAT In Taiwan… [/quote]
I just got a new ATM from Union Bank, and that is supposed to double as a Visa debit card. It even has the Visa logo on it.
I think that a lot of all these inconviences exist because the government hasn’t had time to change all the related laws. A lot of deregulation to be done after 50 years of dictatorship, and they haven’t had that many years to update the legal system. Maybe the currently ongoing attempt at consolidating the financial sector also will bring with it more modern banking legislation. Wouldn’t hold my breath, though.
Many of you have many problems banking in TW. I admit it is not as good as the states (and maybe some other western countries).
But the problems TW has is because of the market structure. Citibank here for example is not like your Citibank in the US or any other country for that matter. Government laws around the world prevent your financial institution from being a “world checking account” or similar function.
As for credit cards, the TW system is not really risk-based. Citibank and a few other banks just started using credit risk analysis (in 2003) to price cards (interest rates, etc.). Most banks just issue cards to Taiwanese at the same interest rate. They try to use the rewards as the differing feature. And since there is no national credit reporting system (like Equifax, TransUnion, and Experian in the US), creditors here do not want to really grant credit to foreigners as it will be very hard for them to damage your credit score if you do not pay your bills. It is hard for them to damage Taiwanese credit scores as the systems are still bank proprietary systems and not accessable by all banks.
Frankly, I’m quite happy to deal with the occassional poor service and seemingly daft practices than have my pocket mercilessly picked by a ‘modern up to date banking system’. Thank god for Taiwanese inefficiency.
BTW, I’ve never had any problem finding people in banks here who speak English (people who know what they are talking about, well…)
When Taiwan banks finally figure that they can charge you for EVERYTHING you do at a bank then you will all really have something to complain about.
In New Zealand, you pay a monthly ‘account maintainance fee’ (which means that I can’t leave an account open in NZ cos it will run down to zero, then into negative. If it runs into negative then I will pay interest AND an overdraft fee every month. Every transaction through an ATM costs 20 cents (about 5 NT), and if use my ATM card as a debit card then I have to pay a transaction fee too. If I have an automatic payment going out then I have to pay a fee to have it set up, then pay a fee every time the money goes out. If I change the AP, then it costs a fee too. If I do any internet transaction, then it costs money. It even costs money to close an account.
Oh, and most jobs won’t pay you cash now, so you have to have bank account to get paid.
As a whole, in NZ there is an increasing tendency to do banking and monetary transactions of all kinds ‘electronically’ which of course just gives the banks even more chances to take a cut.
So, anyway, just to lighten things up…what is the collective noun for a group of bankers?
That happened in the US as well, but then competition forced banks to reform. Now, most banks have accounts with no maintenance fee but very low interest rates. Accounts with higher interest rates have a minimum balance or they charge a fee.
Banks offer more and more free services to compete for people’s business. What they really want is your loan or credit account.
And I don’t think your account in NZ would keep putting you in debt, but would be closed automatically if it went to zero from a maintenance fee.
Yes they would put me into negative and charge me. At least, that is what happened last time… I have no reason to believe that they have reformed.
You say the US banks did that havethesekind of practices but reformed because of competition?
Good for the US, but there is very little competition in NZ. Certainly not enough that the banks would willingly give up up such easy money. There are only 3 main banks. All foreign owned. A few smaller credit unions etc, and one locally owned bank.
[quote=“ensign”]Yes they would put me into negative and charge me. At least, that is what happened last time… I have no reason to believe that they have reformed.
You say the US banks did that havethesekind of practices but reformed because of competition?
Good for the US, but there is very little competition in NZ. Certainly not enough that the banks would willingly give up up such easy money. There are only 3 main banks. All foreign owned. A few smaller credit unions etc, and one locally owned bank.[/quote]
Wow. At least Taiwan banks aren’t as bad as NZ ones then.
I use online banking here. But it’s a swizz really cos they charge 17 NT per transaction, which is more than the charge for withdrawing cash from another bank’s ATM.
Also, you have to specify in advance which accounts you want to be able to credit (except for things like paying tax which you can do on the fly). You do this by going in to the bank and signing a form. With UK online banking, you can pay on the fly whoever you want.
What you can also do if you want to be able to transfer money to anyone you want, is buy am ATM card reader (讀卡機, plugs into a USB port). I find this very odd indeed – they’ve already confirmed who you are through the secure socket layer login, so why do they need your card and PIN as well? Must be just to sell the machines?
I think the financial system and practices here in general are not conducive to foreign investment, which does not bode well for Taiwan’s economic future, IMO. There are a lot of reforms that still need to be carried out (far beyond the small grievances that we have with personal banking) in order for Taiwan to keep up with the rest of the modern world. These are the kinds of things that shouldn’t be too politically “sensitive” that I hope both political camps can work together to implement … with that said, however, the main problem, as usual, is that the “powers-that-be” don’t realize that there’s any sort of problem.
Sounds like the NZ consumer banking situation is horrible. As puiwaihin said, the competition in the states has made banking less costly. In TW, i find international banking issues like foreign investment, wire transfers, and fx deposits very convenient. The downside here is the lack of internet uses and weird stuff like smithsgj said. TW people do not really trust internet transactions and since it is so easy to pay bills at 7-11; internet banking is not likely to really take off here, like it has in the states. In the US, most banks are offering free internet banking, bill pay, etc…
I had that happen to a very important customer visiting me. It was a Taishin atm, and it was in a familymart.
It was the customers fault, as he pressed “continue”, where he should have pressed “cancel”. There was also a bug in the software, we were told by customer service when we called the helpline. However, the agreed to send a security guy out and help us get the card back - he told us that it was the fifth foreigner getting help that day. :help:
The service was not too bad - they gave him the card once they saw his passport. All in all it took 40 minutes or so from when I called to he had his still working card back.
[quote=“DSN”]How about the banks (eg First Commercial in Hsinchu (Xinzhu)) which ISSUE Visa Traveller’s Cheques, but will not cash the very traveller’s cheques they issued when you return! :loco: :loco:
Or this winner: me in Malaysia trying to bank traveller’s cheques issued by Zhonghua about 3 years ago: I’m told that they were reported stolen. Yet to sort that one out (US$600 worth)
Oh, and then there’s the Thomas Cook traveller’s cheques (as used in most of the commonwealth) which almost no bank in the whole of Taiwan will cash.
Moral of the story: Don’t use traveller’s cheques in Taiwan, nor have them issued here!
However, on the PLUS side (just to keep this balanced):
No bank charges on withdrawals or deposits. Yes, in my country they even charge you (huge) fees to DEPOSIT in your own a/c.
Free credit card use with my HSBC a/c (granted, not a Taiwanese bank per se)
Foreign exchange department in almost any bank, unlike where I’m from, where even a large bank may have no such department.[/quote]
[quote=“MrFantastic”]Banking is horrible here. It’s a struggle just to open a bank account. I was told by five different banks that foreigners can’t open bank accounts in Taiwan. After talking to some managers, I finally got them to pull their heads out of their asses. Regarding credit cards, even worse, still haven’t successfully got one. Then you still have all the technical and legal difficulties, plus no English service. You ask any of the major banks: Do you have a main branch? Do you have an English service department, or someone in Taipei who can speak English with a customer? - as usual, they are baffled.
How can they neglect such a major language such as English? Even in Canada you can go to almost any bank in a major city and get service in Cantonese and Mandarin.[/quote]
is it really hard to get cc for us in here…I mean taiwanese they can get cc so easy like with insane credit line, like a college kid can owe 3 mil NTD…they can get 20,30 cc, even illiterate can get cc (banking personnal kinda forced them and with their ID, etc they can get it) so us foreigner it’s hard eh? I was hoping to get some cc and just use the benefits and not owe any money heh
[quote=“ensign”]Frankly, I’m quite happy to deal with the occassional poor service and seemingly daft practices than have my pocket mercilessly picked by a ‘modern up to date banking system’. Thank god for Taiwanese inefficiency.
BTW, I’ve never had any problem finding people in banks here who speak English (people who know what they are talking about, well…)
When Taiwan banks finally figure that they can charge you for EVERYTHING you do at a bank then you will all really have something to complain about.
In New Zealand, you pay a monthly ‘account maintainance fee’ (which means that I can’t leave an account open in NZ cos it will run down to zero, then into negative. If it runs into negative then I will pay interest AND an overdraft fee every month. Every transaction through an ATM costs 20 cents (about 5 NT), and if use my ATM card as a debit card then I have to pay a transaction fee too. If I have an automatic payment going out then I have to pay a fee to have it set up, then pay a fee every time the money goes out. If I change the AP, then it costs a fee too. If I do any internet transaction, then it costs money. It even costs money to close an account.
Oh, and most jobs won’t pay you cash now, so you have to have bank account to get paid.
As a whole, in NZ there is an increasing tendency to do banking and monetary transactions of all kinds ‘electronically’ which of course just gives the banks even more chances to take a cut.
So, anyway, just to lighten things up…what is the collective noun for a group of bankers?
a wunch.[/quote]
omg banking in NZ sucks lol…I guess TW isn’t that bad afterall…
so like which country’s banking system is like the best and why, what do you guys think
ok one more post…so do you guys think online banking is safe in Taiwan…are the banks online banking security adequate? just opened an accoutn with online banking and payment…maybe I won’t use it…the teller had me change my password and code right there! i mean it’s for you to take home and you hve one month to change it. I changed it right there I mean they can all see my new pw or it’s stored in the pc…man I don’t feel safe heh
I guess just to use online banking to check your balances, transfers etc…and don’t use it for transfering…
also all banks got 1 million NTD FDIC insured thing right? not sure what’s FDIC called in Taiwan heh, what to look for to see if they have it or not…just ask them? how about post office and farmer’s banks…thanks
When sending money home walk into the nearest bank - they’re all the same, except HSBC which is four times the price of any other bank.
Anything else is a nightmare. Debit cards? Scary, especially visa debit cards. Some crook gets your number and empties your account… how long do you reckon it would take in Taiwan for the bank to process your fraud claim and put the money back? A month? Three months? A year?
Anyway we should be thankful foreigners are allowed to have bank accounts at all.
My China Trust branch always refuses to let me use a human being to withdraw money. Last time I went in I needed to withdraw 50,000. She told me to use the ATM. They also always argue with me for a while before they will deposit money for me. Even that same 50,000.
Like I am going to put 50,000 in an ATM?
When you walk into my branch there is a lady downstairs with a machine. She asks you what you need so as to give you the appropriate number. She always makes me show her my ATM card and passbook to prove I have an account there. I notice that none of the locals in line in front of me have to show her anything. And she makes me do it every time. I mean I know we all look alike, but shit. Can you at least TRY to remember your own customers?
[quote=“SuchAFob”]My China Trust branch always refuses to let me use a human being to withdraw money. Last time I went in I needed to withdraw 50,000. She told me to use the ATM. They also always argue with me for a while before they will deposit money for me. Even that same 50,000.
Like I am going to put 50,000 in an ATM?
When you walk into my branch there is a lady downstairs with a machine. She asks you what you need so as to give you the appropriate number. She always makes me show her my ATM card and passbook to prove I have an account there. I notice that none of the locals in line in front of me have to show her anything. And she makes me do it every time. I mean I know we all look alike, but shit. Can you at least TRY to remember your own customers?[/quote]
lol that’s funny…maybe she remembers you but she just want to look good in front of her supervisor…or she just wants to talk to you…lol dont’ know
[quote=“SuchAFob”]My China Trust branch always refuses to let me use a human being to withdraw money. Last time I went in I needed to withdraw 50,000. She told me to use the ATM. They also always argue with me for a while before they will deposit money for me. Even that same 50,000.
Like I am going to put 50,000 in an ATM?
When you walk into my branch there is a lady downstairs with a machine. She asks you what you need so as to give you the appropriate number. She always makes me show her my ATM card and passbook to prove I have an account there. I notice that none of the locals in line in front of me have to show her anything. And she makes me do it every time. I mean I know we all look alike, but shit. Can you at least TRY to remember your own customers?[/quote]
China Trust are good crack. Instead of storing foreigners on their system using the Tongyi Bian Hao that was introduced so that foreigners could integrate more closely with the tax, health insurance, immigration systems, they use the year of your birth and the first two letters of your surname to store your info. That means you can’t use telephone banking, online banking, or pay your credit card bill at an ATM by pressing the “pay China Trust credit card” button.
How difficult would it be to simply store foreigners as AC12345678 or whatever? How much extra overhead? As a foreigner with a China Trust bank account I am restricted to having my salary paid into it, and using a domestic ATM card to take it out again. I don’t want to run the risk of paying someone elses bill so I don’t normally use the ATM for payments. Although I have done a few times. Scary.
Until they stopped issuing cards, Amex were pretty damned good. Oh well.
In Indonesia, I simply when the bank (I like BCA) and filled out a short form, showed them my passport and made a $10US deposit. Took less than 10 minutes. No guarantor. About a week and a half later I had my ATM card. And all I had was a normal tourist visa.
[/quote]
Yet to sort that one out (US$600 worth)