Well this is getting into a major digression, but apparently you can’t say that.
I’m semi guessing (my Taiwanese is near non-existant), that ‘soa dei lang’ is a literal equivalent of the Mandarin ‘shan di ren’, and ‘lai soa lang’ is a variation.
The resaon I say this, is from the fantastic chapter ‘We Savages Didn’t Bind Feet’ in Melissa Brown’s book ‘Is Taiwan Chinese?’. Brown interviewed oldies in a village that was counted as Aboriginal in a Japanese census, but later identified themselves as Han Taiwanese. She found it impossible to ask about the Aborigine identity of the interviewees and their anscestors, in Taiwanese (Hokkien), without using the word ‘Hounna’. She was fluent in Mandarin, and knew some Taiwanese, but used an interpretor. She tried to get the interpretor to use different terminology such as literal equivalents of ‘yuan zhu min’ and ‘ping pu ren’ (they were Plains Aborigines, not Mountainers), but these terms jsut met non-comprehension. It was only when she asked the throway question, that she already knew the answer to - ‘Did your mother have her feet bound’ that she got the breakthrough reply “guan hounna bo pak thiau” ("we savages didn’t bind feet - but I might have totally ballsed up the Taiwanese on that one, not having the book to hand). From that point on she was able to use that question to get all her interviewees to ‘admit to being savages’.
This was for Plains Aborigines though, maybe ‘soa dei lang’ would be understood for ‘shan di ren’ or maybe, since the 80s when Brown did the research, new terminology has been popularised, Ijust wanted to give you the rather interesting explanation for my above comments.
Sorry Bri, but I just asked my personal respository of things Taiwanese, who says that indeed Poagao is correct and both forms are common.
Another one is chi huan, which is normally used as an adjective to describe someone who doesn’t listen or is bull-headed or stubborn, but can also be used as a noun (raw savage).
So there you have it, straight from the Sandman, who can barely order a hamburger in mandarin.
The more you know Taiwan, the more amazing the place turns out to be…
My sister in law believes that she has at least a bit of aboriginal blood in her - and claims that the ping-pu tribes that populated large portions of the western plains 120 years ago are still here.
I believe that the vast majority of ‘Taiwanese’ have at least a bit of Aboriginal blood in them. The claims that the ping-pu tribes of the Western plains are ‘still here’ are pretty much accepted historical consensus now. They mostyl didn’t get exterminated, mostly didn’t get driven into the mountains, and mostyl just ‘sinicised’ into ‘Han’.
Read the Brown book for an excllent account of this.
So, to move from one tangent to another, any bets on which half-dozen of the posters in this thread are actually Hartzell? I’m guessing the ones with lots of bold type.
Perhaps Taiwan should join up with some major world power, so the Taiwanese people could learn to get their act together … become a colony of the USA perhaps …
It would not be difficult to do … according to all the talk I hear around Washington, D. C. these days … [/quote]
Amazing, I would have thought what’s for lunch would have a higher priority than some tiny island with no strategic value or abundant natural resources to exploit. Why would Washington want another Puerto Rico? Perhaps you should leave Washington and visit the real world sometime. Aside from a few nut cases who have built their reputations on playing legal eagle, without having the gumption to actually go to law school, no one in their right mind advocates Taiwan becoming a colony of the U.S.
Sorry, way off-topic, but “Huanna” means ‘savages’ and is the only Taiwanese (Hokkien) word for Aborigines.
Brian[/quote]Yes Bri, I’m aware of that. It does however get used as an insult meaning one uncultured, unsophisticated, uneducated, ignorant of modern ways, a yokel. It may be a regional thing so your friends in Taipei might not know it. This usage is widespread in central and southern Taiwan.
I can (like Sandman) barely order a hamburger in Taiwanese (I’m a vegetarian anyway) but my swearing and cursing are first rate
I’d think the problem lies with this particular village and their sense of self identification, which seems a bit strange. The Japanese said they were aborigines, but they feel that they’re not, so obviously when you use the ordinary terms for aborigines, they’re not going to respond. As for calling themselves ‘matchsticks’, perhaps they had a well-developed sense of sarcasm?
What happened is they were Plains Aborgines. The main thing that differentiated them was the fact that they didn’t bind their feet. They;d alkready lost their language and basically adopted almost all the Han ways of their neighbours. It was with the banning of footbinding by the Japanese that they started thinking of themselves as Han Taiwanese. Anyway, you’ll get more by reading the book.
[quote=“Mr He”][quote=“BAH”] That is incredibly offensive.
Taiwan is going it in the world, in an environment where a hostile power is trying to isolate it.
Thanks but no thanks for the “overview” and “analysis.”[/quote]
On price only seen from an economic viewpoint. After having spent time in several Taiwanese companies, I would say that most don’t have what it takes to enter the world markets in a meaningful way.[/quote]
That would also be true of many companies operating in their own domestic markets…
Maybe they failed due to your wonderful negotiating and management skills…
I went to law school, and until I read your above-referenced post, I wasn’t aware it took any extra measure of gumption on my part. I had to take a No. 2 pencil and fill in some circles or ovals or whatever they were, on the LSAT. I also had to fill out some forms and visit some offices. I had to move to a place close enough to the law school to attend classes. I also had to attend class–now that part was a little difficult because I had been a terrible class cutter in my undergraduate and graduate days.
I went to a relatively easy law school, so there wasn’t much danger I’d be kicked out. I was enabled to remain there mainly by a combination of inertia and fear–fear of having to come up with something to do with myself if I dropped out, like get a job. For me, the bar exam was hard, but again, fear (fear of failure) got me through that one.
I think it took at least as much gumption for me to come to Taiwan as to go to law school.
Oh, the topic was Taiwan, colony or not? I vote not, as far as the U.S. is concerned, what with the near certainty of a consequent war with China, and all. . . .
