Taiwan, Biggest Island in the World with No Sailboats


#21

quote=“archylgp” Taiwanese people are not that wealthy enough to support a large boating scene…[/quote] Really? The rich playboys of Taipei seem to have no trouble supporting large Lamborghini, Ferrari, etc. scenes.


#22

What’s your point? (A large boating scene like what I have seen in the west (Seattle) is much, much larger than the number of super rich boys in Taiwan…)

Isn’t the mean salary in Taiwan less than 50k/month? I can’t see too many people spending money on yacht’s and docking spots (or whatever they’re called).


#23

[quote=“ksidnas”]I hear the word “die” everywhere I go. Is it me, or are the locals obsessed with “dying”.

Be careful, if you fall into the water you’ll die.

Be careful, the dog will bite. It will bite you until you die.

Be careful, drinking cold drinks is bad for your health. It will eventually lead to death. You’ll die.

Be careful, (anything) or you’ll die.

You have a sailboat?! It can kill you right? You might die when you get lost out at sea. Have you seen the Titanic?
People can die out at sea.[/quote]

This sums up my entire one-on-one Chinese learning experience at a Language Center. They ask you the sort of things you do for fun to practice saying them in Chinese.

"I snowboard."
response: “Woooah so dangerous. You can die!”

“I go swimming in the ocean”
“YOU’LL DIE EVERYBODY DIES IN THE WATER”

They see a cut I got from crashing my scooter
"Did you go to the hospital? If you don’t it could get infected and you’ll die"

And yes, anything related to being on my boat was met with stares of anguish. Water is an evil demon to the Taiwanese.


#24

For anyone wanting to sail, I have a question. Just how much a day would you spend to sail a hobie cat for a day in the south?

The reason I ask is I have a friend who is thinking of starting hobie cat school and rentals in the south. He has 4 hobbies he rents for a day at a time for 150 us for 8 hours which hold 4 people in the states but he is married to a Taiwanese girl andnshenwants to come home.

I told him the tourist season in the south was at least 8 months with good sailing weather.

What say you my sailing friends?


#25

I come from a country whose most beautiful coastlines have been ravaged to build harbors and docks for the rich to have fun with their motorboats and yachtes. Seeing development in Taiwan is not exactly done in a sensible and landscape-friendly way, I am not sure I would like Taiwan to open up to water leisure activities too much.

I really believe this is one of those “be careful what you wish for” cases.


#26

I don’t want to sail, I just want to paddle in an outrigger, or something like that. You’d think for an island outrigging would be a pretty good sport.


#27

Keep in mid the conditions in Taiwan for sailing are quite challenging: strong currents, lot’s of rips, high winds from approx Mid-Autumn to Dragon Boat. On the West Coast the Straits are relatively shallow and the space between China and Taiwan acts like a venturi tunnel with the China High in the North and a Low down near the Philippines. Many ports on the West coast are drying. This means steep waves with a quick period/interval. East coast is Pacific swell. Navigation aids are speculous at best.


#28

There are quite a few sail boats and yachts at Bisha Fishing Harbor and they even organize an international race from there.


#29

What’s your point? (A large boating scene like what I have seen in the west (Seattle) is much, much larger than the number of super rich boys in Taiwan…)

Isn’t the mean salary in Taiwan less than 50k/month? I can’t see too many people spending money on yacht’s and docking spots (or whatever they’re called).[/quote]

umm…fyi, taiwan has plenty of wealthy people. it’s ranked #8 on list of countries with millionaire households - 4% of population or 312,000 households. http://www.bloomberg.com/money-gallery/2013-05-30/where-the-world-s-millionaires-live.html#slide9 so that’s a lot of potential boats. but taiwanese - like in many asian countries - just doesnt have a culture and tradition thus interest in boating. a big part of it is derived from the country’s laws concerning china. but taiwanese also dont like to swim and dont like to get tanned. which is also why taiwan’s coasts are full of industries and not residential houses/communities unlike in the west. they dont like living along the beaches/coast unlike westerners.


#30

There’s also the fact that a lot of the money is kept overseas or that they tend to emigrate or have retirement homes overseas. A lot of these guys have a mentality that Taiwan is a place for making money, that’s about it.


#31

that probably has more to do with typhoons and tidal waves destroying homes. It’s hard to find a place to live just by the beach. As for sailing, I think KMT’s rules regarding the coast is what destroyed the tradition. If you look at old photos, there were plenty of sail boats in Tamsui river back in the days. Maybe they were mainly for fishing and shipping, but it’s not like people had no clue how to operate a sail boat.


#32

They didn’t use boats for leisure though.
There are other reasons, such as the lack of lakes and wide slow rivers here.

It’s not a big problem to build a house on the coast, but of course you wouldn’t want to build one directly on the beach. The demand just wasn’t there before but it’s changing.

The west coast has been messed up due to too much industrial development and fish and oyster farming. For instance I know some nice coastline in Miaoli, however they built the coastal highway which interferes with access and views (was also a massive waste of money, it was supposed to be used by trucks but its mainly empty).
Then they have also built trash incinerators and coal power plants on the coast there.
In Taichung most of the coast has become industrialized or part of the port. Down from Taichung you get more industrial areas and then the coast is mostly used for oyster and fish farming.


#33

[quote=“mrhotdice”]For anyone wanting to sail, I have a question. Just how much a day would you spend to sail a hobie cat for a day in the south?

The reason I ask is I have a friend who is thinking of starting hobie cat school and rentals in the south. He has 4 hobbies he rents for a day at a time for 150 us for 8 hours which hold 4 people in the states but he is married to a Taiwanese girl andnshenwants to come home.

I told him the tourist season in the south was at least 8 months with good sailing weather.

What say you my sailing friends?[/quote]

There is a local guy in Kenting who is already doing this. Most bookings he needs to be on the boat as the people renting need instruction and can’t be left to their own devices.

Business is definitely cyclical and most often quiet from what I understand. Your friend would have a hard time keeping four boats on the water yet alone one.


#34

What’s your point? (A large boating scene like what I have seen in the west (Seattle) is much, much larger than the number of super rich boys in Taiwan…)

Isn’t the mean salary in Taiwan less than 50k/month? I can’t see too many people spending money on yacht’s and docking spots (or whatever they’re called).[/quote]

There are plenty of local governments around taiwan building floating marinas that are suitable for yachts in existing fishing ports. Check Bisha, Anping and XingDa (Gang) These serve as more than adequate places to launch / moor your boat when you want to go sailing.

Having been involved in the yacht racing scene that is in Taiwan, the two major problems that I see :

  • A long term restrictions on boating licenses has killed off most of the sailing culture and expertise

  • To have a successful sailing scene in Taiwan they would need a strong association behind them. There are pockets of sailing groups around Taiwan but no central association that is driving training programess, events, representing boat owners to get better facilities etc.

This could change but in the short term if you are a wealthy guy located in TW that wants to buy a yacht, spending six figures on a boat why not keep it in Hong Kong, Xiamen or Sanya where they have the training, races, infrastructure etc.


#35

For sure, I’ve never seen the kind of fear and loathing of the sun and water as I have here in Taiwan. They don’t go boating because they don’t want to hang out in the sun and get darker. For the same reason, many Taiwanese also can’t swim. Swimming outside requires exposing oneself to the sun and that’s unacceptable(getting darker) to most Taiwanese. At my job, they shade the rooms completely and rob everyone of sunlight. The Taiwanese love it and the foreigners hate it.

Owning a boat is often a sign of being elite(or at least living a comfortable life with perks) in the western world, but not in Taiwan, despite all of its posturing to be considered modern. They don’t know how to live and take advantage of their surroundings and probably won’t ever reach this status because of their ridiculous hatred and fear of the water and the sun.


#36

westerners like to spend their riches and enjoy their money. taiwanese, maybe chinese and some other asians as well, like to hoard and invest their money. mostly in real estate and stock markets and sending their kids overseas for expensive foreign degrees like a second bachelors degree, a third masters, a 4th phd, etc. i had a taiwanese roomie in ny who had 2 bachelors from 2 u.s. colleges and a masters from new york university, and wanted to get a phd. his family dont seem to mind that he was 31 and barely had any job experience and probably wouldnt mind if he spent his entire life studying. i find people like that very common in asia. but there’s good and bad in both philosophies: westerners spend too much (just look at their ridiculous levels of debt) and taiwanese work too hard and dont enjoy life as much. if they buy materialistic things it’s usually luxury cars and fashion/jewelry. spending money also creates jobs and new products and services too. of course, just dont overspend! and pay in cash, not credit!!


#37

What’s your point? (A large boating scene like what I have seen in the west (Seattle) is much, much larger than the number of super rich boys in Taiwan…)

Isn’t the mean salary in Taiwan less than 50k/month? I can’t see too many people spending money on yacht’s and docking spots (or whatever they’re called).[/quote]

There are plenty of local governments around taiwan building floating marinas that are suitable for yachts in existing fishing ports. Check Bisha, Anping and XingDa (Gang) These serve as more than adequate places to launch / moor your boat when you want to go sailing.

Having been involved in the yacht racing scene that is in Taiwan, the two major problems that I see :

  • A long term restrictions on boating licenses has killed off most of the sailing culture and expertise

  • To have a successful sailing scene in Taiwan they would need a strong association behind them. There are pockets of sailing groups around Taiwan but no central association that is driving training programess, events, representing boat owners to get better facilities etc.

This could change but in the short term if you are a wealthy guy located in TW that wants to buy a yacht, spending six figures on a boat why not keep it in Hong Kong, Xiamen or Sanya where they have the training, races, infrastructure etc.[/quote]

Exactly. I don’t mean to be Debby Downer, but you’ll notice in the 2012 HKG-KHH race that no Taiwanese registered boats were entered, most likely because no Taiwanese boats can meet the standard of a Cat 1 offshore race. Incidentally, one boat sank on the way.

Having legally owned and sailed boats in Hong Kong, Singapore and China. I have not done it in Taiwan because the regulatory environment sucks, as does the yachting infrastructure. Boat bills are already measured in boat bucks (1k USD) before Taiwan customs even if you DIY a lot of it and Ah Huang installations have no place on a boat.

It’s just one of those small things that you hope one day Taiwan might join the rest of world, but I won’t hold my breath. In my couple of interaction with members of the Chinese Taipei Sailing Association in regattas in Singapore, I was less than impressed with the skillsets or even the attitude.

Never seen people like Frank Pong or Karl Kwok have you?


#38

[quote=“Elegua”]

Never seen people like Frank Pong or Karl Kwok have you?[/quote]

i dont know who that is. but one person in the minority doesnt change an entire culture’s general customs and habits.


#39

[quote=“forealz”][quote=“Elegua”]

Never seen people like Frank Pong or Karl Kwok have you?[/quote]

I don’t know who that is. but one person in the minority doesnt change an entire culture’s general customs and habits.[/quote]

Minority? Where have you been the last 10 years in China?!? Your’s is the cultural generalization all right.

Why is it that many of the largest pleasure yachting shipyards like Feretti have been bought by Chinese investors?

[quote]
“China (CNGDPYOY)’s super-rich are looking at yachts and jets because the country has so much money now,” said Richard Tai, luxury- goods analyst at Shanghai-based research firm China Research & Intelligence. “It just shows China’s phenomenal economic development over the past 30 years.”[/quote]

bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-1 … retti.html

It’s also a great way to get your money out of China - buy something expensive overseas.

This is just one example. 10min in a place like 華茂中心 should disabuse you of any idea that Chinese culture does not incorporate conspicuous consumption. Now multiply that times every tier 1 and tier 2 city in China. Still not the majority, but still roughly 3/4th the population of the US. :laughing:


#40

WE ARE TALKING TAIWAN AND TAIWANESE. TAIWAN IS NOT PART OF CHINA AND TAIWANESE ARE NOT CHINESE!!!

and asians as a whole are way more frugal than westerners. look at the ridiculous amounts of debt western nations are in!! average taiwanese and chinese save at least 25-30% of their disposable incomes. singapore is 50% savings rate, i believe. american savings rate before the global recession was in the negatives. now i think it’s a bit above 0%.